MORE RAPTURE QUESTIONS

jerry kelso said:

Israel is the nation, God's wife who will come back to him by purification Daniel 2:24-27 and by tribulation through the time of Jacob's trouble Jeremiah 30-7

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Jerry,

I showed you this past week that the "time of Jacob's trouble" was during the Babylonian captivity, because the word "captivity" is used before and after Jeremiah 30:7.

But what do you do?

You just keep repeating that old Dispensational claim... "the time of Jacob's trouble"...

and then you accuse me of "double-talk"...

.

Biblewriter said:

Take your own advice.

You keep quoting scriptures that never quite say what you imagine they mean, in a vain attempt to escape literally hundreds of scriptures that day exactly the opposite of what you imagine these scriptures mean.

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Then I am in good company, based on a Bible that was written hundreds of years before I was born.

Those who published the 1599 Geneva Bible must have been confused, just like me.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.



You are the one claiming that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.
Maybe you can show us where that doctrine is found in the New Testament...

.

BABerean2 said:

Jerry,

I showed you this past week that the "time of Jacob's trouble" was during the Babylonian captivity, because the word "captivity" is used before and after Jeremiah 30:7.

But what do you do?

You just keep repeating that old Dispensational claim... "the time of Jacob's trouble"...

and then you accuse me of "double-talk"...

.

Click to expand...

baberean2,

Of course it was captivity but so was Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome and the future Revised Roman Empire and the Antichrist Beast Kingdom who will persecuIsrael in the time of Jacob's trouble.
Obviously, you forgot the same passage said Christ would raise up King David to be their King.
David was dead in Jeremiah's day and will not be made King of Israel until the time of Jacob's trouble has ended and the KoH has begun.
You continue to keep it in the past and ignore the prophetic side of the context. And why? Because you want to keep up your worthless argument to make it sound like you are right or no how to rightly divide the word.
You can give no valid or logical reason to debunk what the scripture says about the prophetic part about David becoming King of Israel. If you think you can try! Jerry kelso

BABerean2 said:

You are the one claiming that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.
Maybe you can show us where that doctrine is found in the New Testament...

.

Click to expand...

Hi BABerean2,

You must know these scriptures -

`For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that a hardening in part has happened to Israel UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, BUT concerning THE ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.` (Rom. 11: 25 - 29)

Marilyn.

Marilyn C said:

Hi BABerean2,

You must know these scriptures -

`For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that a hardening in part has happened to Israel UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES HAS COME IN. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

"The Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; for this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins."

Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, BUT concerning THE ELECTION they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.` (Rom. 11: 25 - 29)

Marilyn.

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Marilyn,

I know it well and how it is misapplied to produce a future national salvation for the modern nation of Israel.

The first question we should ask is... What is "hardened in part"?
Does it mean that all Israelites have been partially hardened or does it mean that some have been hardened and some have not. Based on Romans 11:1-5, it means that part of the Israelites, like Paul, were the "remnant" who accepted Christ, while the other part rejected Him.

The second question is... when does the times of the Gentiles come to an end?
We will let Christ answer that question below.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem (Subtitle from e-Sword)

Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　

Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　

Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　

Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　

Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.　(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of this verse is about 70 AD. What happens at the end of this verse after the "times of the Gentiles" ends?)

After this verse we have the Second Coming of Christ.
Therefore, the "times of the Gentiles" ends at Christ's Second Coming.

The Coming of the Son of Man

Luk 21:25　 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;　
Luk 21:26　 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　
Luk 21:27　 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.　
Luk 21:28　 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."　

There are many who will change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26.
I have heard Dispensational preachers make this change on television. Some of them will leave out the word "so".

The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ.
There is no Plan B, outside of the Church.


The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary.

There are two different groups of "they" in verse 28.

Rom 11:28　 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.　(One group of "they" rejected the Gospel and are enemies of God. The other group of "they" are the elect "remnant" who accepted Christ. Paul started the chapter, Romans 11:1-5, with two groups of Israelites and he ends the passage in the same way.)


The New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore the Age of Grace does not come to an end before the Second Coming.

.

BABerean2 said:

Marilyn,

I know it well and how it is misapplied to produce a future national salvation for the modern nation of Israel.

The first question we should ask is... What is "hardened in part"?
Does it mean that all Israelites have been partially hardened or does it mean that some have been hardened and some have not. Based on Romans 11:1-5, it means that part of the Israelites, like Paul, were the "remnant" who accepted Christ, while the other part rejected Him.

The second question is... when does the times of the Gentiles come to an end?
We will let Christ answer that question below.

Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem (Subtitle from e-Sword)

Luk 21:20　 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.　

Luk 21:21　 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her.　

Luk 21:22　 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.　

Luk 21:23　 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.　

Luk 21:24　 And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.　(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of this verse is about 70 AD. What happens at the end of this verse after the "times of the Gentiles" ends?)

After this verse we have the Second Coming of Christ.
Therefore, the "times of the Gentiles" ends at Christ's Second Coming.

The Coming of the Son of Man

Luk 21:25　 "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring;　
Luk 21:26　 men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken.　
Luk 21:27　 Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.　
Luk 21:28　 Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."　

There are many who will change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in Romans 11:26.
I have heard Dispensational preachers make this change on television. Some of them will leave out the word "so".

The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree.
Paul said the branches broken off can be grafted back into the tree, through faith in Christ.
There is no Plan B, outside of the Church.


The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary.

There are two different groups of "they" in verse 28.

Rom 11:28　 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.　(One group of "they" rejected the Gospel and are enemies of God. The other group of "they" are the elect "remnant" who accepted Christ. Paul started the chapter, Romans 11:1-5, with two groups of Israelites and he ends the passage in the same way.)


The New Covenant has made the Old Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
Therefore the Age of Grace does not come to an end before the Second Coming.

.

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Hi BABerean,

Thank you for your reply. Now when do you see `all Israel will be saved.` (Rom. 11: 26)

I agree with you that the times of the gentiles is fulfilled when Christ comes in Power & great glory to deliver Israel and judge the rebellious nations.

As to no plan outside the Body of Christ, let`s see what God`s word says -

`These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, they were assured of them, embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.....Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for He has prepared a city for them.` (Heb. 11: 13 & 16)
`And all these obtained a good testimony through faith did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.` (Heb. 11: 40)

`But you have come to mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the General Assembly and Church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

Clearly we see the OT saints (just, righteous men and women) looking for the city and who are waiting in the General Assembly for their inheritance, the city when it shall come down out of heaven from God, to the lower heavens.

Then we have the Body of Christ who are registered in heaven, who will rule and reign with Christ upon His throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)

Marilyn.

BABerean2 said:

Jerry,

I showed you this past week that the "time of Jacob's trouble" was during the Babylonian captivity, because the word "captivity" is used before and after Jeremiah 30:7.

But what do you do?

You just keep repeating that old Dispensational claim... "the time of Jacob's trouble"...

and then you accuse me of "double-talk"...

.

Click to expand...

If you had paid attention to the exact wording of the passage you are speaking of, you would not have made such an obvious error. For verse 3, the first verse you spoke of which mentions captivity, explicitly says:

For behold, the days are coming,' says the LORD, 'that I will bring back from captivity My people Israel and Judah,' says the LORD. 'And I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.' " Jeremiah 30:3

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Although a small portion of Judah returned from the Babylonian captivity. No scripture anywhere even mentions Israel ever having returned.

Again, verse 8 says:

'For it shall come to pass in that day,' Says the LORD of hosts, 'That I will break his yoke from your neck, And will burst your bonds; Foreigners shall no more enslave them. Jeremiah 30:8

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Yet after the time of the return from the Babylonian captivity, the Jews, as a nation were once again enslaved. This took place in A.D. 70, according to the best estimate of modern historians.

These two passages, which sandwich the verse in question, conclusively prove that Jeremiah 30:7 is not speaking of the Babylonian captivity.

BABerean2 said:

Then I am in good company, based on a Bible that was written hundreds of years before I was born.

Those who published the 1599 Geneva Bible must have been confused, just like me.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible

Daniel 9:27
And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.



You are the one claiming that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the Church.
Maybe you can show us where that doctrine is found in the New Testament...

.

Click to expand...

It is utter nonsense to claim that notes included in an edition of the Bible are the Bible.

It is also utter nonsense to claim authority for your ideas because they were taught in days long past. Two can play that game. You now perfectly well that I can cite plenty of very old, and even ancient writers that plainly taught the very opposite of what you are teaching.

And you are being deceptive in continuing to accuse Dispensationalists of claiming that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the church. You know perfectly well that we teach, and very plainly teach, that there is not now, and never will be any way to be saved except through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You also very well know that what we teach is that the church will be removed from this earth at the time of the rapture, and that then, after that time, God will bring all Israel to repentance and faith in Christ. So, in continuing to press the claim that we teach "that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the church," you are trying to deceive people about what we teach.

Such a willful attempt to misrepresent what others teach is unacceptable in a person who presumes to teach the scriptures.

Biblewriter said:

And you are being deceptive in continuing to accuse Dispensationalists of claiming that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the church. You know perfectly well that we teach, and very plainly teach, that there is not now, and never will be any way to be saved except through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. You also very well know that what we teach is that the church will be removed from this earth at the time of the rapture, and that then, after that time, God will bring all Israel to repentance and faith in Christ. So, in continuing to press the claim that we teach "that modern Jews will come to salvation outside of the church," you are trying to deceive people about what we teach.

Such a willful attempt to misrepresent what others teach is unacceptable in a person who presumes to teach the scriptures.

Click to expand...

Again, you fail to see the paradox in your statement above.

The Church is made up of those individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Then you turn around and say the Church will be removed from the planet and then God will save modern Israelites "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Since the Church is the Body of individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ", if modern Israelites are saved in this manner, this would make them part of the Church.

.

Biblewriter said:

If you had paid attention to the exact wording of the passage you are speaking of, you would not have made such an obvious error. For verse 3, the first verse you spoke of which mentions captivity, explicitly says:



Although a small portion of Judah returned from the Babylonian captivity. No scripture anywhere even mentions Israel ever having returned.

Again, verse 8 says:

Yet after the time of the return from the Babylonian captivity, the Jews, as a nation were once again enslaved. This took place in A.D. 70, according to the best estimate of modern historians.

These two passages, which sandwich the verse in question, conclusively prove that Jeremiah 30:7 is not speaking of the Babylonian captivity.

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Hello Biblewriter.

I was reading your post and I noticed this comment.

Yet after the time of the return from the Babylonian captivity, the Jews, as a nation were once again enslaved. This took place in A.D. 70, according to the best estimate of modern historians.

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I have no idea what you are talking about.

Which nation enslaved the Jews in AD 70?

BABerean2 said:

Again, you fail to see the paradox in your statement above.

The Church is made up of those individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Then you turn around and say the Church will be removed from the planet and then God will save modern Israelites "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Since the Church is the Body of individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ", if modern Israelites are saved in this manner, this would make them part of the Church.

.

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Hi BABerean,

Those in the trib. are saved from eternal judgment, by turning to God, having received the message of the coming king and His kingdom. This will be preached by the 144,000 Israelites who go throughout the earth preaching the kingdom - the coming Messiah and His millennial reign. That is the gospel, the good news that will go out through out the world and then the end (of that era) will come.

The Lord is the coming Messiah for Israel and ruler of the nations, as God`s word tells us.

The good news that we share is of the Lord Jesus Christ the Head of the Body. The Lord has many titles for different offices. We are NOT the centre of God`s word, Christ is and His purposes. We are just a part of that.

Marilyn.

klutedavid said:

Hello Biblewriter.

I was reading your post and I noticed this comment.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Which nation enslaved the Jews in AD 70?

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Rome

When Vespacian destroyed Jerusalem, he killed most of the Jews, and sold the survivors as slaves.

BABerean2 said:

Again, you fail to see the paradox in your statement above.

The Church is made up of those individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Then you turn around and say the Church will be removed from the planet and then God will save modern Israelites "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ".

Since the Church is the Body of individuals who are saved "through a living faith in the Lord Jesus Christ", if modern Israelites are saved in this manner, this would make them part of the Church.

.

Click to expand...

Here you reveal that you are entirely aware of the fact that your argument is specious. You know perfectly that the entire basis of your argument is a difference in our respective definitions of words.

You are entirely aware of the fact that the difference in our doctrines is not in how any person will ever be saved, but in the definition of the meaning of the word church. You choose to define this word to mean the sum total of every person that has ever or will ever trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know perfectly well that Dispensationalists teach that the term "the church" only applies to those that trust in the Lord Jesus Christ during a particular period of time.

You know perfectly well that we teach that after the church is gone, people will continue to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know that we teach that God will receive these people in the same way He receives us today. So you know, and know perfectly, that our difference of opinion on this point is entirely a matter of a difference in our opinions about the meaning of the word "church."

So you know, and absolutely know, that there is zero fundamental difference between what we teach and what you teach. Yet you continue to pretend that this is some kind of a fundamental difference in our respective doctrines. And that is what makes your continual use of this claim morally unacceptable.

BABerean2 said:

Jerry,

I showed you this past week that the "time of Jacob's trouble" was during the Babylonian captivity, because the word "captivity" is used before and after Jeremiah 30:7.

But what do you do?

You just keep repeating that old Dispensational claim... "the time of Jacob's trouble"...

and then you accuse me of "double-talk"...

.

Click to expand...

baberean2,

1. I see you didn't answer my rebuttal and challenge in Jeremiah.

2. You prove that Jeremiah 30:7-9
Isn't prophetic.
Prove to me that God raised up David as their King in Jeremiah's day! You can't! Unless you Spiritualize that passage.
Put up or quit This nonsensical beef with the truth and dispensationalism as well. Jerry kelso

Biblewriter said:

Here you reveal that you are entirely aware of the fact that your argument is specious. You know perfectly that the entire basis of your argument is a difference in our respective definitions of words.

You are entirely aware of the fact that the difference in our doctrines is not in how any person will ever be saved, but in the definition of the meaning of the word church. You choose to define this word to mean the sum total of every person that has ever or will ever trust in the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know perfectly well that Dispensationalists teach that the term "the church" only applies to those that trust in the Lord Jesus Christ during a particular period of time.

You know perfectly well that we teach that after the church is gone, people will continue to turn to the Lord Jesus Christ. And you know that we teach that God will receive these people in the same way He receives us today. So you know, and know perfectly, that our difference of opinion on this point is entirely a matter of a difference in our opinions about the meaning of the word "church."

So you know, and absolutely know, that there is zero fundamental difference between what we teach and what you teach. Yet you continue to pretend that this is some kind of a fundamental difference in our respective doctrines. And that is what makes your continual use of this claim morally unacceptable.

Click to expand...

The problem is that what you claim Dispensationalist today teach and what they really teach is not the same.

How many times have we heard that the "Age of Grace" or the "Church Age" ends 7 years before the Second Coming or that the Holy Spirit is removed at the same time, while ignoring Revelation 12:11? How many times have we heard about "the time of Jacob's trouble", while ignoring the word "captivity" used two times in the passage.
It is an example of propaganda. Keep repeating your story until people believe it.
I and others here are not buying the story, anymore.

What you teach is not my problem or the problem of others here who once believed your system, but have now rejected it as false.
The problem is that what you and others of your system of interpretation teach, does not match the text of Scripture.
It depends on your interpretation of the Old Testament, while ignoring what is plainly written about genealogy in the New Testament.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, completely destroys your whole system of interpretation.

I am still waiting to see what you have written in your books about the New Covenant of Christ.
When can we see some of that text?

.

Hello Biblewriter.

Thanks for your reply.

When Vespacian destroyed Jerusalem, he killed most of the Jews, and sold the survivors as slaves.

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That is only part of the story.

What happened to Israel in AD 70?

The Romans destroyed the Second Temple and most of Jerusalem. This event marked the beginning of the Roman exile, also called the Edom exile. Jewish leaders and elite Jews were exiled from the land, killed, or taken to Rome as slaves. Yet Jews still lived in Israel.

In 132 CE, the remaining Jews, under Bar Kokhba, rebelled against Hadrian, per Cassius Dio, in response to Hadrian's renaming of Jerusalem to to Aelia Capitolina. In 135 CE, Hadrian's army defeated the Jewish armies and Jewish independence was lost. As punishment, Hadrian exiled more Jews, and forbade the Jews from living in their capital. (wikipedia)

BABerean2 said:

The problem is that what you claim Dispensationalist today teach and what they really teach is not the same.

How many times have we heard that the "Age of Grace" or the "Church Age" ends 7 years before the Second Coming or that the Holy Spirit is removed at the same time, while ignoring Revelation 12:11? How many times have we heard about "the time of Jacob's trouble", while ignoring the word "captivity" used two times in the passage.
It is an example of propaganda. Keep repeating your story until people believe it.
I and others here are not buying the story, anymore.

What you teach is not my problem or the problem of others here who once believed your system, but have now rejected it as false.
The problem is that what you and others of your system of interpretation teach, does not match the text of Scripture.
It depends on your interpretation of the Old Testament, while ignoring what is plainly written about genealogy in the New Testament.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, completely destroys your whole system of interpretation.

I am still waiting to see what you have written in your books about the New Covenant of Christ.
When can we see some of that text?

.

Click to expand...

baberean2,

1. You are deflecting again from a simple question.
If Jeremiah 30:7-9 is the past why Didn't God raise up King David then?
I have already answered, rebutted and debunked your Jeremiah and Hebrew Interpretation. Quit deflecting and answer the question. Now would be a good time. Jerry Kelso

jerry kelso said:

baberean2,

1. You are deflecting again from a simple question.
If Jeremiah 30:7-9 is the past why Didn't God raise up King David then?
I have already answered, rebutted and debunked your Jeremiah and Hebrew Interpretation. Quit deflecting and answer the question. Now would be a good time. Jerry Kelso

Click to expand...

Jer_29:20　 Hear ye therefore the word of the LORD, all ye of the captivity, whom I have sent from Jerusalem to Babylon:

Jer_29:22　 And of them shall be taken up a curse by all the captivity of Judah which are in Babylon, saying, The LORD make thee like Zedekiah and like Ahab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire;

Jer_29:28　 For therefore he sent unto us in Babylon, saying, This captivity is long: build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them.



Jer 30:3　 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.


　
Jer 30:7　 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.　



Jer 30:10　 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.　

.

BABerean2 said:

Jer_29:20 Hear ye therefore the word of the LORD, all ye of the captivity, whom I have sent from Jerusalem to Babylon:

Jer_29:22 And of them shall be taken up a curse by all the captivity of Judah which are in Babylon, saying, The LORD make thee like Zedekiah and like Ahab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire;

Jer_29:28 For therefore he sent unto us in Babylon, saying, This captivity is long: build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them.



Jer 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.


　
Jer 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.



Jer 30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.

.

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Except chapter 30 is not chapter 29. As seen in verse 1, it's a completely different revelation, and as seen in the last verse, verse 24, it's something that would only be understood in the latter days. It's not a contemporary word to chapter 29, as you are trying to make them appear.

BABerean2 said:

Jer_29:20　 Hear ye therefore the word of the LORD, all ye of the captivity, whom I have sent from Jerusalem to Babylon:

Jer_29:22　 And of them shall be taken up a curse by all the captivity of Judah which are in Babylon, saying, The LORD make thee like Zedekiah and like Ahab, whom the king of Babylon roasted in the fire;

Jer_29:28　 For therefore he sent unto us in Babylon, saying, This captivity is long: build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them.



Jer 30:3　 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.


　
Jer 30:7　 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.　



Jer 30:10　 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.　

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baberean2,

1. First, you deflect and talk about a different point.

2. Now you give me the scriptures for the Babylonian Captivity which I never denied that Israel would come out of.
However, you want to leave the context fully in that captivity when it has a prophetic perspective that you don't want to admit in verses 8-9 which you left out because you know you don't want to admit you are wrong. How deceptive!

3. Verse 4 does speak concerning Israel and Judah and the Babylonian captivity and any rest was short lived because Medo-Persia was the next oppressor then Greece, then Rome. We know this from Daniel 2&7.

4. Verse 5 &6 talk about the time of Jacob's trouble which was not exclusive to the Babylonian captivity. Isaiah 66:7-9; Daniel 12:1; Matthew 24:21-22; Revelation 12.
All these passages are the time of Jacob's trouble that are future and a message to Israel and Judah.
Israel and Judah never become one stick according to Ezekiel 37:16-28. That will not happen until the end of the tribulation.

5. Jeremiah 30:7; alas for that day is great. This phrase is relative to the Day of the Lord which is relative to a day of reckoning and involves travail of a woman or Jacob Isaiah 13:6-9; Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:14-15; Matthew 24:15:22; Revelation 12 both past and future even past Jeremiah's time.

6. Jeremiah 30:9; But the (Israel) shall serve the Lord their God and David their King; whom I (God) will raise up.
This is future for David was dead and was not raised up then and will not be until the Kingdom when both Judah and Israel will become one sick and never be separated again Ezekiel 37:16-24;25-28.
Once again you are one sided and leaving out the other side of the truth and being deceptive to yourself as well as others because of your tunnel vision and throwing out the baby with the bath water.
This is why you cannot explain verse 9 about David being raised up as King in Jeremiah's day. Quit being ridiculous. Jerry kelso