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That does not say, "Jesus says to pick up the cross and follow Him, to get to eternal life".
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Salvation: God's choice or our choice?
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That does not say, "Jesus says to pick up the cross and follow Him, to get to eternal life".
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The words are there for all to see.
Your post: "So Jesus says to pick up the cross and follow Him, to get to eternal life."
The text: "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."
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Your post: "So Jesus says to pick up the cross and follow Him, to get to eternal life."
The text: "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."
There is nothing in the text that says taking up your cross gains you eternal life. It can't be earned. It's a gift.
The text: "Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me."
There is nothing in the text that says taking up your cross gains you eternal life. It can't be earned. It's a gift.
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- May 21, 2017
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Yes...because it means what He says. We need to deny ourselves and follow Him to have eternal life.
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Except Jesus said the only way to get eternal life is through HIM. Therefore we need to become His follower.
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You said this, so it relates, the killer was a 'good soldier of Satan' who took the punishment he fully deserved...
' The choice is not noble or worthy of anything like "Following Christ or Satan", but the choice is between wimping out, giving up and surrendering to your enemy or hanging in there, being macho, being willing to pay the piper, being willing to take the punishment you fully deserve and being a good soldier of satan.'
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Marvin Knox
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"as it is written,
“There is none righteous, not even one;
There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
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So Marvin, did you seek God?
Psalm 10:4
The wicked in his proud countenance does not seek God; God is in none of his thoughts.
I sure wish you would have given all the verses in Psalm 14.
1 The fool has said in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt,
They have done abominable works,
There is none who does good.
2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.
3 They have all turned aside,
They have together become corrupt;
There is none who does good,
No, not one.
4 Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge,
Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call on the Lord?
5 There they are in great fear,
For God is with the generation of the righteous.
6 You shame the counsel of the poor,
But the Lord is his refuge.
7 Oh, that the salvation of Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord brings back the captivity of His people,
Let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad.
Who are the people who are eaten by these workers of iniquity? Who are the righteous with whom God resides? Are these righteous corrupt? Are you saying these righteous do not seek God, nor understand Him? Are you saying these righteous do no good? Are you saying these righteous turned aside from God?
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Marvin Knox
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EmSw said,
The question was whether or not unsaved people seek God. I'm saved.
We were discussing the concept of the non elect seeking God and trying to follow Him and not being able to because they are not the elect.
I merely quoted what it says in Romans about the attitude and abilities of the reprobate of this world.
It's up to you what you do with it.
I suspect that you will not work too hard on the theology of it all since you have said in the past that you do not accept the writings of Paul as being the word of God.
Tell me EmSw - in light of your theology of obeying Jesus commandments in order to make it to Heaven, aren't you worried about losing your salvation for misrepresenting yourself the way you are doing here in the forum?
Yes.
The question was whether or not unsaved people seek God. I'm saved.
The elect of God.
No.
We were discussing the concept of the non elect seeking God and trying to follow Him and not being able to because they are not the elect.
I merely quoted what it says in Romans about the attitude and abilities of the reprobate of this world.
It's up to you what you do with it.
I suspect that you will not work too hard on the theology of it all since you have said in the past that you do not accept the writings of Paul as being the word of God.
Tell me EmSw - in light of your theology of obeying Jesus commandments in order to make it to Heaven, aren't you worried about losing your salvation for misrepresenting yourself the way you are doing here in the forum?
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Hi J4E, I agree with what JJ has been saying to you, because the only ones who "follow" Jesus are the ones who are ALREADY saved, who already possess "eternal life" .. see John 5:24. That is, in fact, the reason why we, as believers, choose to follow Him
Eternal life is a gift from God (as JJ already mentioned) which cannot be earned by anything we do .. e.g. Romans 3:28; Romans 4:5; Ephesians 2:8-9; Titus 3:5. Becoming a Christian is therefore all about God (and what He did and does for us), not about us (and what we do for ourselves ..
).Here's something else to consider, if salvation could be 'earned' by us, why did the Father choose to send His Son here to die that horrible death on the Cross for us? If salvation is something that we can and must earn for ourselves, then neither the Incarnation nor the Cross would have ever been necessary!
Yours in Christ,
David
p.s. - here's a pretty good description of a non-believer by St. Paul, those he refers to as "natural" men and women. If you think about it, how could such a person ever become a follower of Christ (since they neither know God, nor can they accept or understand the things of God which seem like foolishness to them, as the things of God can only be understood those who are alive "spiritually"). For that matter, "why" would such a person choose to follow/give his or her life to Christ (to someone they neither know nor trust), especially since following Christ involves taking up one's "cross" to do so.
1 Corinthians 2
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
14 A natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
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Did you seek Him before that?
And where does it say the elect of God in Romans 3? I think Paul was talking about everyone does not seek God, no one understands, and all have turned aside. Are you exempt?
I don't see where Paul said anything about the reprobate world. Nothing is said about the elect either.
One is not saved by the writings of Paul. It is the Savior Himself who has the words of life. It was the Savior who said, 'But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.'
Tell me, how does that passage escape you?
Are you telling me a man can lose his salvation? If you don't believe that, why is it in your arsenal? Aren't you the one misrepresenting yourself? You speak with a forked tongue.
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It has worked out just fine, for me and many other believers.
How is breaking the commandments working out for you? Has lying, stealing, and cheating on your wife been okay with you?
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