Acts2:38
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- Apr 14, 2017
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I am trying to see if I can fine-tune a view that can reconcile all the seemingly contradictory Bible passages about salvation.
When one understands the bible in context, there will be no contradiction as I am sure you are already aware by the sounds of it. It just takes study.
I am only interested in what the Bible says. So my view is not set in stone.
This is VERY important. When talking with people it is important to just say, "okay, well what do the scriptures say?" instead of our opinions. I agree totally with this statement. I am only interested in what scripture says.
Jesus said His sheep listen to His voice and follow Him and no one will snatch them out of His hand. If these people do not follow Jesus, it just means that they are not His sheep, and are not the ones who will have eternal life.
"My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:27-28)
Hebrews 6:4-6,
You are missing a VERY important statement here. Let me put the verses down and highlight:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
The highlighted in bold parts show you that these people WERE Christians, but fall away.
These people were "partakers" of the Holy Spirit, how can you say they were not Christians?
They "were once enlightened", how can you say they weren't?
They tasted "the heavenly gift", how can you say they didn't?
This verse puts what you are saying in utter contradiction so someone here is putting something out of context. So lets look at what you brought up in John 10:27-28 below here.
Yes, I see that verse, I believe that verse, in its context. Look back to verse 24 and tell me who is Jesus talking to? The conversation in John 10:27-28 starts in Verse 24. Why did Jesus say that in John 10? Context is key.
Jesus had known from the beginning Judas did not believe and would betray Him, yet He still chose him as one of His 12 disciples to fulfill His plan, so Judas had never been saved:
Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.” (John 6:64-65)
Then Jesus replied, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!” (John 6:70)
Judas was indeed saved when Jesus "ordained" him. Jesus is high priest was capable of saving people at his whim because they were under the old law (thief on the cross before Jesus death saved under old law;Jesus didn't die yet).
I see what you might be doing, which is not taking into context the why, who, what, etc., the verses state what they state. Not intending to be rude, but like cherry picking verses you know and seen and were taught, but have not seen the others before and after it. However, because you take the bible as sole authority, this is exactly where I want you to go to and see for yourself. You are miles ahead of most people in taking scripture only.
Look at John 6 again. You brought up verses 64-65 and 70. Just like John 10, I want you to read why Jesus said that, who He was talking to, and what was happening. The story here begins on verses 11-23 after this, Jesus begins a story after the people and disciples catch up with Him in verses 24-51. Notice now, these people (Jews) didn't understand what Jesus was saying verse 52. Jesus explained again to them verses 53-59. Even Jesus disciples had a hard time, verse 60-61.
Understand also in the OT, Judas is prophesied, Jesus is prophesied, all this is prophesied that the world would be saved through Jesus (example verses Luke 2:49; John 3:15-17; Genesis 3:14-15). Judas could have been saved if he had "Godly sorrow" and repented. To say otherwise is to take power and authority away from God. God would have taken him into the fold if Judas repented and I will show you a verse later to prove this and explain verse 70 in John 6.
John 6:64, who is Jesus talking to? Why did he say this? This is very important to understand the context of this verse.
Now to verse 70.
Did you not know that Peter was once referred to as the devil (Matthew 16:23)? Peter had "Godly sorrow", and did not take his own life, but strengthened in Christs teachings and became the one to give the confession and testimony that Christ built His church on (Acts 2). About what I mean in Godly sorrow, see to 2 Corinthians 7:8-11.
See Judas was chosen (ordained), Judas also was to fulfill prophecy, Judas could have repented and returned to Gods good grace. Judas was saved, however by "transgression fell" (Acts 1:25), therefore Judas could have repented by his own choice, but chose differently as we see. Acts 1:25 proves all the more that Judas WAS in a saved state and then lost it.
Those people who abandon their faith and leave shows that they have never really belonged to God, which means they have never been saved:
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. (1 John 2:19)
Read carefully the verses I put down for Demas. He was a "fellow worker"/ a fellow laborer. Otherwise why would Paul write this, 2 Timothy 4:10. If Demas was never in a saved state to begin with, then Paul, who was guided by the Holy Spirit to write down the scripture, would have no reason to phase the verse in Timothy the way he did. "Demas has forsaken me, having loved this present world".
Demas WAS saved like Judas, but like Judas he lost salvation, falling from grace.
Back to the context issue, who is the book of 1 John written to? This is very important considering what conclusion you are trying to hold on to. To broadly explain 1 John 1:8-10 and 1 John 2:1-2, John is explaining how believers in Christ can walk in God's light and have fellowship with Him, with Christ as their advocate. In 1 John 2:3-17, John is urging to obey Christ fully and to love all the members of Gods family (Christians).
With so many warnings to Christians to obey or you fall, how can one say a Christian is not capable of falling from grace?
Now I am not saying they can't retake grace back through repentance, but that is just the thing, they have to choose to repent to get back in good standing (1 John 1:7-10).
Conclusion: Demas and Judas WERE saved, but fell from grace. They both could have had repentance and returned to God's fold, but didn't. These scriptures show the "once saved always saved" doctrine false.
Those people whose names that are written in the Book of Life are those that will eventually be saved, but we don't know who are God's elect. The only thing we know is as long as we maintain our faith till the end, we will be saved, which means we must have been chosen by God if we believe and maintain our faith till the end.
Those people in the book of Galatians are Christians Paul is speaking to. Paul is telling them/us basically that one can fall from grace.
Revelations also says this here Revelation 22:17-19.
"And whosoever will , let him take the water of life freely."
"For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book,"
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life"
You can fall from grace.
Jesus knows His sheep and His sheep listen to Him and follow Him. Those people Jesus said never knew them are not His sheep, and have never been saved.
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ (Matthew 7:21-23)
you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. (John 10:26-28)
Matthew 7:21-23 is people that think they are saved, people that think they obey the gospel, people that think all is good because they believe they are in Christ, but are not. It is because they did not obey the gospel, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-10.
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10 could describe 2 categories of people. Those who thought they were in Christ but never were and those who WERE in Christ (Demas and Judas) and fell from grace, not obeying what the gospel has stated for us.
I already explained John 10 before so I won't get into that again.
Thank you for your time and kind reply. If your sole purpose was about "salvation; can it be lost" then I will not reply to the predestination section unless you so chose to wish for a reply.
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