The Passover.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

It was not by reading the BIBLE anyone ever found out ("know") that Jesus is the MESSIAH, the SON of the LIVING GOD. Even Peter the Apostle did not find out by reading, nor by being with Jesus, nor by being told by Jesus.

For anyone today, the options are the same as they were for the Apostles and disciples Jesus spoke with and trained ...
Ask YHWH for the TRUTH, seek YHWH, trusting in JESUS, have faith in JESUS, ....
Open up the BIBLE and read in the NEW TESTAMENT, or TORAH, or PROPHETS, or PSALMS, or all of these - GOD'S WORD is TRUTH, every bit.

You will have to stop opposing God, stop opposing God's Word,
and go and read the Scriptures that have been posted (just the Scriptures themselves, not even the comments with them, to verify Scripture is TRUTH, as GOD SAYS IT IS - GOD'S WORD IS TRUTH) ,
and
go and simply open the BIBLE at home yourself,
and read all the SCRIPTURE (GOD'S WORD)

since only HIS WORD IS TRUTH UNSHAKEABLE.

Everything I posted has been in line with HIS WORD, as HE SAYS, as HE delivers unto everyone who puts their trust in HIM and not in men.

Remember HIS WORD says anyone who trust in man's ways , He Himself (YHWH) curses,
so giving up the ways of men, turning to YHWH ALONE, is required according to HIS WORD.

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yeshuaslavejeff said:

As long as you decide to reject God's Word,
"obviously",
you won't accept nor understand God's Word.

His Word directly answers all the objections you have posted, ever.

Who are you choosing to believe INSTEAD ?!

Since YHWH grants eternal life through JESUS, and only through JESUS,

why not believe YHWH'S WORD, instead of whoever you have been deceived by ? (everyone who opposes YHWH'S Word is deceived and deceiving others)

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I've read partos of the Bible and I've never found anything that answers all the big questions I've had. I've read the wisdom of Jesus, and I've read of the terrible things done in the Old Testament, and I;ve read Revelation as well. I've never gotten any divine insight from God that answered all my questions. The "answers" I've found to my questions have been non-answers as best—"every word of the Bible is true", "Who are you to question God?" "God works in mysterious ways", "God knows what's best", "Don't lean on your own understanding", "don't seek knowledge," "Ask God yourself", etc. etc etc.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I have more problems with killings in the Bible.
Leviticus Ch.24.Stone blasphemer.
Leviticus.Ch.20 A woman approaches an animal to have sexual relations with it.Kill both the woman and the animal.
Numbers Ch.15 The man collecting sticks on the sabbath.All the congregation shall Stone him.
Numbers Ch 25 Cities of refuge . The next of kin will kill the murderer.
2Samuel Ch.6.Uzzah put out his hand to the ark of God for the oxen stumbled .God struck him and killed him.
Jeremiah Ch.13.I will fill all the inhabitants of the land and I will dash them one against the other. I will not pity nor spare nor have mercy,but will destroy them.
I do not believe that God would do any of these things.

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In the matter of killing, as you cited the bible directly, don't you have to also agree with Rom 3:4 -- "...let God be true and every man a liar..."?
God had a certain way of dealing with people in the Old Covenant; in the OC there were covenant and non-covenant people. That has changed with the coming of the New Covenant, which is a better covenant built on better promises. This New Covenant was foretold in Isaiah 54:9-10; it is described as "a covenant of kindness and peace" and it went into effect at the crucifixion of Jesus.

As long as you believe YHWH'S WORD , and what YHWH has done Himself, is (in your own words many time) "terrible",
it doesn't look like you will choose to follow Him nor Christ.
That is the choice most people on earth make,
so no big surprise there.

CrystalDragon said:

I've read partos of the Bible and I've never found anything that answers all the big questions I've had. I've read the wisdom of Jesus, and I've read of the terrible things done in the Old Testament, and I;ve read Revelation as well.

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====================================
YHWH is silent, as He Says in His Word, when YHWH is silent.

An old grey haired woman at an estate sale a few years ago,
gave the best answer I've heard, that I remember:

"Jeff, nothing will change their mind, they need a new heart."

CrystalDragon said:

I've never gotten any divine insight from God that answered all my questions. The "answers" I've found to my questions have been non-answers as best—"every word of the Bible is true", "Who are you to question God?" "God works in mysterious ways", "God knows what's best", "Don't lean on your own understanding", "don't seek knowledge," "Ask God yourself", etc. etc etc.

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Kenneth Watwood said:

I never have but even if I had I would not have had her husband killed.

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Are you having us on ?
The OT shows good and bad about the people and Israel. Warts and all. People are flawed and God uses flawed people. David did get consequences for that. God did have mercy on him. Different ages in history have different problems and we can look at things from modern eyes and not really understand what life was like with their technology and knowledge about the world.
Kings of England did some atrocious things in history. I think modern people have different problems and biases to contend with.
For example they had less knowledge about the world
Modern people have more knowledge about the world but have to contend with the amount of misinformation that's out there and the misinformation people say.

CrystalDragon said:

Your first sentence, that the Bible makes a claim so it's true, is circular reasoning.

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I'm afraid you demonstrate here that you don't understand what circular reasoning is. I only remarked on what the Bible says about itself; I did not draw from its statements about itself any conclusions about the truthfulness of the Bible's claim to divine inspiration, however. And later in my post I offered very non-circular reasons for my belief in the Bible's supernatural origin. It seems you've been too eager to find fault with my post.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

So you are saying Yeshua is a created being, just like Adam. If so, then I assume you are NOT Trinitarian...

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There were many types of Christ in the old testament: it does not follow that Jesus acted in every single way those individuals did nor do their entire lives reflect His. That Adam was created does not mean Jesus was created: I only pointed out that neither had an earthly father or mother.

CrystalDragon said:

Going by that logic then wouldn't abortion be an "act of mercy" too since those children wouldn't grow up to possibly be bad?

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No it would not for abortion is murder: God did not commit murder. Since God gives life and is Life: He has the right to take life.

YHWH_will_uplift said:

No it would not for abortion is murder: God did not commit murder. Since God gives life and it's Life: He has the right to take life.

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Also God has foreknowledge and is righteous in his ways

dougangel said:

Also God has foreknowledge and is righteous in his ways

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So saying "kill everyone in a city but the virgin girls to have for yourselves", keeping slaves and it being okay to beat them to death as long as they don't die right away, and "killing everyone in a city if one person didn't believe" is righteous?

dougangel said:

Also God has foreknowledge and is righteous in his ways

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Though God has foreknowledge of all things His actions needed to correctly reflect that through demonstrating His wisdom: otherwise He could be blamed for not taking the proper measures to ensure that everything was set in place for our good. The story of Adam and Eve is a perfect example of God giving man the choice between life and death: this is represented by the two literal trees in the middle of the garden:

1) The Tree of Life.
2) The Tree of Death.

God warned Adam and Eve to stay away from death for they would die but, since they did not: that is why we still die today and, why Jesus had to die on the cross and be resurrected in order that we might have the chance to eat from the Tree of Life.

CrystalDragon said:

So saying "kill everyone in a city but the virgin girls to have for yourselves", keeping slaves and it being okay to beat them to death as long as they don't die right away, and "killing everyone in a city if one person didn't believe" is righteous?

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First of all correctly cite your sources. Second you obviously have no understanding of the rules of war: when a city is conquered all that is in it is the spoil of the victors. Thirdly note that Jesus/God said that the Son of Man came not to be served but, to serve: therefore there is obviously nothing wrong with servitude or slavery: the unjust treatment of masters to their slaves was being addressed. Fourth the killing of whole cities was for the simple reason that if a city decided to defend an evil person then it follows that the city supports evil: therefore it must be destroyed if it does not repent. And on the contrast God told Abraham that He would spare the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah if He found any number of righteous people: He did not, therefore God destroyed those cities.

CrystalDragon said:

So saying "kill everyone in a city but the virgin girls to have for yourselves", keeping slaves and it being okay to beat them to death as long as they don't die right away, and "killing everyone in a city if one person didn't believe" is righteous?

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Yes I want you to cite the references to that. before I got into specifics with it.

With modern people it hard to get there heads around the fact that god is sovereign. He has divine ruler-ship over us. And truly understanding the concept of respect for God.

Taking in for account care for creation. Man has rulership of animals and it's not murder to eat animals or kill pests or cull animals when there is a nature imbalance.

God has divine rulership of humans. He makes life and death decisions for us and its not murder
and we have rulership of animals.
we make life and death decisions for animals
and its not murder.

Exile and Diaspora are the punishments God imposed on Israel for idolatry and unbelief (Dt 28:64-68; Is 6:11-12; 39:1-7; Jr 6:1-8; 19:1-13; Ezk 5:5-12; Am 8:1-12). Perhaps the primary passage on the subject is Dt 29:24-28: "All the nations will ask, 'Why has the Lord done this to this land . . .' Then people will answer, 'It is because they abandoned the covenant of the Lord . . . They began to worship other gods . . . Therefore the Lord's anger burned . . . The Lord uprooted them from their land in His anger, fury, and great wrath, and threw them into another land where they are today.'"

But this is not the whole story. The prophets also claimed that God would restore David's fallen dynasty (Hs 3:5; Am 9:11) and give Israel a New Covenant to replace the one they had broken (Jr 31:31-34). And now, while Israel is in disobedience and Diaspora, the Gentiles are brought into the New Covenant (Rm 11:25-32). The true end of exile will be when Israel turns to their Messiah, Jesus, mourning over Him whom they have pierced (Zch 12:6-14).

CrystalDragon said:

Haven't you noticed that Jesus never wrote any books of the Bible? Or that the Gospels aren't written as if they were eyewitness accounts? There's no "Jesus said this to us", just "Jesus said this to his disciples", as if they were a completely separate group rom the author. In Paul's letters he clearly used "I" and the like, I would expect it to be the same for the Gospels if they were eyewitness accounts. But the text itself doesn't indicate they were.

And like I said, Jesus didn't write down any of it. So rather than directly having what Jesus said, we have people who likely weren't eyewitnesses saying decades later what Jesus said even though it was decades earlier and they weren't there.

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You know, all these sorts of questions have been asked and answered many, many times. For thorough treatments of the issues you've raised check out:

www.crossexamined.org
www.reasonablefaith.org
www.str.org
www.carm.org

CrystalDragon said:

How is it mercy? Why couldn't they have knowledge and live forever? Was it an "ignorance is bliss" thing? Why be ignorant? Why did God not want us to know things? Why couldn't living forever coexist with knowing things?

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Just to be clear, is it your understanding that God would have been acting more out of caprice than of mercy in denying mankind to take on 'his role'?
What would be God's motivation for limiting mankind's life in the world (even if indirectly by barring them the means to live forever), if not the ultimate good of mankind?

Recall also that you ventured the claim that abortion is a mercy, so it is not as if I am introducing a new concept into the discussion. You had already opened up the possibility of death as mercy in your assertion that abortion may logically thought of as a mercy.

From my way of thinking, eternal life in a world in which sin reins supreme is akin to life in hell, a life of pain and suffering in "which people cry for death, and death will not come".

That is how I think that God introducing death into the world may be considered his greatest mercy for us. It is a quality of life issue. Death cuts short the amount of damage the violent psychopaths who are uniquely suited to garner power in this world can do, and cuts short the amount of suffering that may befall the rest of us in such a world.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I believe that Jesus is an equal part of the Godhead.He was murdered on the cross and was resurrected.Thank you for your comments.

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I'm a little unclear about your answer to my question. When you mention He was resurrected, by that do you mean He had a body that the disciples were able to touch after He died, just as plainly as any man could shake another mans' hand nowadays? Or is this some type of body lacking in material substance kind of resurrection and Godhead you are referring to?

kepha31 said:

Do you have a verse that says the "Word of God" is confined to the written word? BibleGateway has an excellent bible search. You will get 180-200 results for "Word of God". I haven't been able to find any where it just means written, maybe you can.

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The word scripture itself means...written word[graphe]
It Comes from God.....so...it is the word of God....
Jesus said so here;
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

now from Vines nt word studies;'
Scripture

• 
  

γραφή

(Strong's #1124 — Noun Feminine — graphe — graf-ay' )
akin to grapho, "to write" (Eng., "graph," "graphic," etc.), primarily denotes "a drawing, painting;" then "a writing," (a) of the OT Scriptures, (1) in the plural, the whole, e.g., Matthew 21:42 ; 22:29 ; John 5:39 ; Acts 17:11 ; 18:24 ;Romans 1:2 , where "the prophets" comprises the OT writers in general; 15:4; 16:26, lit., "prophetic writings," expressing the character of all the Scriptures; (2) in the singular in reference to a particular passage, e.g., Mark 12:10 ; Luke 4:21 ; John 2:22 ; 10:35 (though applicable to all); 19:24,28,36,37; 20:9; Acts 1:16 ; 8:32,35 ; Romans 4:3 ; 9:17 ; 10:11 ; 11:2 ; Galatians 3:8,22 ; 4:30 ;1 Timothy 5:18 , where the 2nd quotation is from Luke 10:7 , from which it may be inferred that the Apostle included Luke's Gospel as "Scripture" alike with Deuteronomy, from which the first quotation is taken; in reference to the whole, e.g., James 4:5 (see RV , a separate rhetorical question from the one which follows); in 2 Peter 1:20 , "no prophecy of Scripture," a description of all, with special application to the OT in the next verse; (b) of the OT Scriptures (those accepted by the Jews as canonical) and all those of the NT which were to be accepted by Christians as authoritative, 2 Timothy 3:16 ; these latter were to be discriminated from the many forged epistles and other religious "writings" already produced and circulated in Timothy's time. Such discrimination would be directed by the fact that "every Scripture," characterized by inspiration of God, would be profitable for the purposes mentioned; so the RV. The AV states truth concerning the completed Canon of Scripture, but that was not complete when the Apostle wrote to Timothy.

The Scriptures are frequently personified by the NT writers (as by the Jews,John 7:42 ), (a) as speaking with Divine authority, e.g., John 19:37 ; Romans 4:3 ; 9:17 , where the Scripture is said to speak to Pharaoh, giving the message actually sent previously by God to him through Moses; James 4:5(see above); (b) as possessed of the sentient quality of foresight, and the active power of preaching.Galatians 3:8 , where the Scripture mentioned was written more than four centuries after the words were spoken. The Scripture, in such a case, stands for its Divine Author with an intimation that it remains perpetually characterized as the living voice of God. This Divine agency is again illustrated in Galatians 3:22 (cp. Galatians 3:10 ; Matthew 11:13 ).

CrystalDragon said:

Don't you think seeking the truth is looking at things from ALL angles and not just staying in a bubble of what you think is the truth without actually investigating it? The fact that you just stop at a post that asks "How do we know?" shows that you are trying to be ignorant and ignore any other information that doesn't conform to your worldview as you understand it.

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48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Kenneth Watwood said:

I would like to ask more questions but about the New Testament.A lot of it beautiful but some problems.

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Lets be honest your not really asking questions are you ?
you have already made up your mind haven't you ?

Kenneth Watwood said:

The Passover.Exodus Ch.12 As I see this God is being accused of murdering innocent Egyptian children.
I do not believe that God did this. Can we discuss?

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9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews
and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understands, there is none that seeks after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that does good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Romans 3:
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 5:

YHWH_will_uplift said:

That Adam was created does not mean Jesus was created: I only pointed out that neither had an earthly father or mother.

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Yet the Scriptures prove you wrong. Anyone can say anything, but proving it is another story...you said, "just like Adam". Well Adam was created. Yeshua was BORN as a child.