Matthew 24: Rapture, Second Coming or Both?

BABerean2

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Hi BABerean2,

What the 12 disciples preached to the people of Israel was that Christ is their Messiah and they, Israel would rule over the nations of the world. This was known to them except that Jesus in the flesh was their Messiah.

What the Apostle Paul preached was that truth, but ALSO that Jesus was the head of His called out ones, the Body of Christ. This revelation was not known previously, even by the 12 apostles.

Marilyn.

Marilyn.

There is only one Gospel that was preached by Christ, his original disciples, and Paul.
It is the "good news" of the New Covenant foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.



Gal 1:6  I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 
Gal 1:7  which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 
Gal 1:8  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 
Gal 1:9  As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 


You are attempting to promote the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is disproven by the following words of Christ.

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 

.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Hi BABerean2,

What the 12 disciples preached to the people of Israel was that Christ is their Messiah and they, Israel would rule over the nations of the world. This was known to them except that Jesus in the flesh was their Messiah.

What the Apostle Paul preached was that truth, but ALSO that Jesus was the head of His called out ones, the Body of Christ. This revelation was not known previously, even by the 12 apostles.

Marilyn.

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,
Are you referring to this?

Matthew 28:16-20 - "But the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

I'm aware that you, being a pre-tribber, believe that the elect in Matt. 24 is referring to Israel. Not so. It's true that Israel was God's elect in the Old Testament, but we need to realize that the Church was born in Jerusalem, not Rome as many would have us believe.

Elect simply means "chosen." Israel was a chosen people, a royal priesthood and holy nation in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament we Gentiles are being grafted in, just as unbelieving Jews are being grafted back in as well (Romans 11:22-24). There is no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile (Romans 3:22, 10:12, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11).

In Matt. 24 Jesus was giving a clue to His faithful servants that will be ready when He appears. He hinted about the wedding supper or giving them food at the proper time..aka (meet in due season). You might think that He was only talking to the Jews, but in the passage below He was clearing talking to a Gentile, and gave another clue about the wedding supper.

Matthew 8:5-13 - "When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that moment."

Old Testament saints will be there at the wedding supper too, as their faith was counted as righteousness.

Cheers
 
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BABerean2

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Of course, not. That's common knowledge. What's your point?



At least a few years. Paul wasn't present when Christ was teaching His disciples, so he had to learn and gain knowledge. A better question would be, where did Paul get his knowledge and wisdom, since he wrote most of the New Testament?

Cheers

The point is that you are attempting to avoid the obvious to make your doctrine work.

When I showed you that what you claim is "my theory", is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible you ignored it and made some comments about James Lloyd, instead.

Now you are attempting to ignore the basic math which shows that the Gospel was taken to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before it was taken to the Gentiles.

Earthly ministry of Christ = 3 1/2 years

crucifixion of Christ to the stoning of Stephen = several months, at least

Time between Paul's conversion and when he started preaching to the Gentiles = at least 3 years.

3 1/2 + 3 + several months = Does anybody have a calculator?


Based on Galatians 1:16-18 and Galatians 4:25, Paul may have gone to Mount Sinai for a period of about 3 years after his conversion. We know he did go to Arabia and we know he did not start preaching until 3 years after his conversion.

.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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The point is that you are attempting to avoid the obvious to make your doctrine work.

When I showed you that what you claim is "my theory", is found in the 1599 Geneva Bible you ignored it and made some comments about James Lloyd, instead.

Now you are attempting to ignore the basic math which shows that the Gospel was taken to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before it was taken to the Gentiles.

Earthly ministry of Christ = 3 1/2 years

crucifixion of Christ to the stoning of Stephen = several months, at least

Time between Paul's conversion and when he started preaching to the Gentiles = at least 3 years.

3 1/2 + 3 + several months = Does anybody have a calculator?


Based on Galatians 1:16-18 and Galatians 4:25, Paul may have gone to Mount Sinai for a period of about 3 years after his conversion. We know he did go to Arabia and we know he did not start preaching until 3 years after his conversion.

.

LOL - So what are you trying to say now, using your estimated and vague times, that you think should be calculated? Are you now suggesting that the entire 70th week was fulfilled? The 70th week has nothing to do with when Paul's calling and ministry began.
 
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Marilyn C

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There is only one Gospel that was preached by Christ, his original disciples, and Paul.
It is the "good news" of the New Covenant foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.



Gal 1:6  I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 
Gal 1:7  which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 
Gal 1:8  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 
Gal 1:9  As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. 


You are attempting to promote the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which is disproven by the following words of Christ.

Joh 10:16  And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd. 

.

Hi BABarean2,

So the 12 disciples knew all about the Body of Christ and Jesus being our Head? Mmmmmm God`s word tells us that it was only revealed to the Apostle Paul after many years.

As to the one fold, we, Israel (who believe God) and believers in Christ, are all God`s children, all His family. However...as we read God`s word we see that He has different promises to each group, different inheritances in His great kingdom.

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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LOL - So what are you trying to say now, using your estimated and vague times, that you think should be calculated? Are you now suggesting that the entire 70th week was fulfilled? The 70th week has nothing to do with when Paul's calling and ministry began.

From the 1599 Geneva Bible

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


There must be a relationship between the number of times a person uses "LOL" in defending their Bible doctrine and how wrong their Bible doctrine would be.

.
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,
Are you referring to this?

Matthew 28:16-20 - "But the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came to them and spake unto them, saying, All authority hath been given unto me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world."

I'm aware that you, being a pre-tribber, believe that the elect in Matt. 24 is referring to Israel. Not so. It's true that Israel was God's elect in the Old Testament, but we need to realize that the Church was born in Jerusalem, not Rome as many would have us believe.

Elect simply means "chosen." Israel was a chosen people, a royal priesthood and holy nation in the Old Testament. But in the New Testament we Gentiles are being grafted in, just as unbelieving Jews are being grafted back in as well (Romans 11:22-24). There is no longer any distinction between Jew and Gentile (Romans 3:22, 10:12, Galatians 3:28, Colossians 3:11).

In Matt. 24 Jesus was giving a clue to His faithful servants that will be ready when He appears. He hinted about the wedding supper or giving them food at the proper time..aka (meet in due season). You might think that He was only talking to the Jews, but in the passage below He was clearing talking to a Gentile, and gave another clue about the wedding supper.

Matthew 8:5-13 - "When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6 “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home suffering terribly.” 7 Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?”

8 The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9 For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”
10 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.
11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
13 Then Jesus said to the centurion, “Go! Let it be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that moment."

Old Testament saints will be there at the wedding supper too, as their faith was counted as righteousness.

Cheers

Hi rollin THUNDER,

Great to catch up with you and discuss God`s word. Now concerning Matt.28, the great commission, yes we obviously share ALL that the Lord has said to the disciples - that He is Israel`s Messiah and they will rule the nations of the world. Then we ALSO share that the Lord Jesus Christ is the HEAD of the Body of Christ and that we have a different inheritance.

As to Israel being a `royal (king) priesthood.` That is not possible, they (who believed in God) were a nation of priests and a king. The two offices were always separate. As to the Body of Christ we are the royal priesthood, the kingpriests, 2 offices together under Christ`s Melchizedek priesthood, (king & Priest). Thus our different serving responsibilities in God`s great kingdom.

Now as to Jesus referring to the `elect` when speaking to the people of Israel, He would be deceitful and a liar if He was referring to other than what they understood or what had been revealed at that time. (Note the Body of Christ had not been revealed then.)

As to us being grafted in, yes praise the Lord we are in Christ, the holy root which nourishes us, however we have different responsibilities in God`s great kingdom, as God`s word says.

The wedding feast, you will notice is on earth, the man who came in without a wedding garment. Thus you will have to prove we are on the earth at that time, after the trib. And the OT saints are in the General Assembly awaiting their promised inheritance - the city. (Heb. 11 & 12: 23)

Blessings, Marilyn.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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From the 1599 Geneva Bible

Daniel 9:27

And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


There must be a relationship between the number of times a person uses "LOL" in defending their Bible doctrine and how wrong their Bible doctrine would be.

.

1599, Wow! Does this translation relay something your NKJV doesn't?

I'll tell you what. Instead of just throwing up a scripture, why don't you tell me your reason for posting it. Explain to me what you believe it means. Then we can discuss it. Who knows, I just might agree with you for a change, or maybe not - lol.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Now as to Jesus referring to the `elect` when speaking to the people of Israel, He would be deceitful and a liar if He was referring to other than what they understood or what had been revealed at that time. (Note the Body of Christ had not been revealed then.)
Hi Marilyn,
There was no need to reveal everything to them then. He knew they already had trouble understanding, as this was before they had received the Holy Spirit. So using the word "elect" is a word they could easily understand. Besides, He had already taught them that He was going away to prepare a place for them, in His Father's house and would come back to receive them to Himself, that where He was they would be also (John 14:1-4). There's no denying the fact that they were the first Christians.

As to us being grafted in, yes praise the Lord we are in Christ, the holy root which nourishes us, however we have different responsibilities in God`s great kingdom, as God`s word says.
His disciple's were in Christ, just as we are. They were the first of His followers, as He called them Himself. Not to mention, there is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile, as I said in my previous post.

The wedding feast, you will notice is on earth, the man who came in without a wedding garment. Thus you will have to prove we are on the earth at that time, after the trib. And the OT saints are in the General Assembly awaiting their promised inheritance - the city. (Heb. 11 & 12: 23)
The wedding feast is promised to those who keep watch and are ready when He comes. The word "rapture" immediately comes to mind here (Luke 12:35-48). Also, the gathering of His elect corresponds with 1 Thes. 4:16-17, as both are gathered or caught up in the clouds. I tie both of these together in another post: Will All Christian’s Be Ready?

Cheers
 
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klutedavid

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Greetings klutedavid

I agree with your statement above.

But I have no idea what you mean by saying I have nowhere to go.
Hello rollinThunder.

Sorry for the delay.

I made the point that the following verse, is talking about the seventy weeks as applying only to Israel.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city...

The seventy weeks cannot be seen as applicable to gentiles or gentile cities.

This prophecy was directed to the Jews only and has been fulfilled.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Hello rollinThunder.

Sorry for the delay.

I made the point that the following verse, is talking about the seventy weeks as applying only to Israel.

Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city...

The seventy weeks cannot be seen as applicable to gentiles or gentile cities.

This prophecy was directed to the Jews only and has been fulfilled.

Hi klutedavid,

I agree that it pertains to Israel, but not that it has all been fulfilled. Christ was cut off after 69 weeks. Daniel's 70th week has not been fulfilled yet. There will be no doubt when the 70th week is fulfilled, because Christ will return and be anointed as the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Cheers
 
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Marilyn C

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Hi Marilyn,
There was no need to reveal everything to them then. He knew they already had trouble understanding, as this was before they had received the Holy Spirit. So using the word "elect" is a word they could easily understand. Besides, He had already taught them that He was going away to prepare a place for them, in His Father's house and would come back to receive them to Himself, that where He was they would be also (John 14:1-4). There's no denying the fact that they were the first Christians.


His disciple's were in Christ, just as we are. They were the first of His followers, as He called them Himself. Not to mention, there is no longer any difference between Jew and Gentile, as I said in my previous post.


The wedding feast is promised to those who keep watch and are ready when He comes. The word "rapture" immediately comes to mind here (Luke 12:35-48). Also, the gathering of His elect corresponds with 1 Thes. 4:16-17, as both are gathered or caught up in the clouds. I tie both of these together in another post: Will All Christian’s Be Ready?

Cheers

Hi rollinTHUNDER,

Thank you for your thoughts and I will look at your post.

Marilyn.
 
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klutedavid

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Hi klutedavid,

I agree that it pertains to Israel, but not that it has all been fulfilled. Christ was cut off after 69 weeks. Daniel's 70th week has not been fulfilled yet. There will be no doubt when the 70th week is fulfilled, because Christ will return and be anointed as the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Cheers
Hello rollinThunder.

What system of time keeping are you using?

It appears that with your method of interpretation, seventy weeks does not mean what it says.
 
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klutedavid

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Hi klutedavid,

I agree that it pertains to Israel, but not that it has all been fulfilled. Christ was cut off after 69 weeks. Daniel's 70th week has not been fulfilled yet. There will be no doubt when the 70th week is fulfilled, because Christ will return and be anointed as the King of kings and Lord of lords.

Cheers
Hello rollinThunder.

You seem to use sixty nine weeks and then use some other system of timing for the last week. That is what I do not understand, two methods of timing applied to a single block of seventy weeks.

We agree that this prophecy only applies to the nation of Israel, theocratic Israel, this chosen nation disappeared from the face of the earth in AD 70. The prophecy must be fulfilled by AD 70 or before this time, for there will never again be a theocratic Israel.

God will certainly not choose them again, God will not again build a temple in the land of Israel.

Your interpretation is inconsistent and bizarre.
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Hello rollinThunder.

What system of time keeping are you using?

It appears that with your method of interpretation, seventy weeks does not mean what it says.
Hello rollinThunder.

You seem to use sixty nine weeks and then use some other system of timing for the last week. That is what I do not understand, two methods of timing applied to a single block of seventy weeks.

We agree that this prophecy only applies to the nation of Israel, theocratic Israel, this chosen nation disappeared from the face of the earth in AD 70. The prophecy must be fulfilled by AD 70 or before this time, for there will never again be a theocratic Israel.

God will certainly not choose them again, God will not again build a temple in the land of Israel.

Your interpretation is inconsistent and bizarre.

Yes, it appears that you have been taught something completely different. I suspect that you have been taught what is known as Replacement Theology, that the Church has replaced Israel, which is incorrect. This teaching became popular after Israel was scattered in the nations of the world for several hundred years. However, with Israel coming back to the Promised land, just as the prophets foretold, this was a huge game changer. Now there is a better and more modern way of viewing the scriptures regarding Israel and the second coming of Christ.

You seemed to think it was odd when I mentioned that we are now in the times of the Gentiles. Romans 11:25-27 tells us that Israel has been temporarily blinded or hardened until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, because they rejected their Messiah. Read the entire chapter to get a better understanding.

Also, there is another prophecy that is often overlooked that came from Christ, Himself, which is still unfulfilled, John 5:43. There are others scriptures, but these are a good place to start.

Cheers
 
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BABerean2

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Yes, it appears that you have been taught something completely different. I suspect that you have been taught what is known as Replacement Theology, that the Church has replaced Israel, which is incorrect. This teaching became popular after Israel was scattered in the nations of the world for several hundred years. However, with Israel coming back to the Promised land, just as the prophets foretold, this was a huge game changer. Now there is a better and more modern way of viewing the scriptures regarding Israel and the second coming of Christ.

You seemed to think it was odd when I mentioned that we are now in the times of the Gentiles. Romans 11:25-27 tells us that Israel has been temporarily blinded or hardened until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, because they rejected their Messiah. Read the entire chapter to get a better understanding.

The text of Romans 11 says that Israel has been blinded "in part" (Romans 11:25). You left out that for some reason. This does not mean that all Israelites have been "partially" blinded. Based in Romans 11:1-5, it means that part of them have been blinded or hardened as to who the Messiah is and part of them have not.


The Church has not replaced Israel. The Church is the fulfillment of Israel through the "seed of the woman" from Genesis 3:15, which is found fulfilled in Matthew 1:1.
On the Day of Pentecost, Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.
During the first few years of the Church, almost all of its members were Israelites. All of Israel has not rejected the Messiah.


It is Dispensationalists who are teaching "Replacement Theology".

They have replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

They have replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

They have replaced the Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one Olive Tree, with a Church made up only of Gentiles.

They have replaced the Holy nation who has accepted the "chief cornerstone" in 1 Peter 2:4-10, with a nation that has rejected the "chief cornerstone" found in Matthew chapter 21.


We find below when "the times of the Gentiles" comes to and end.


Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem (Subtitle from e-Sword)

Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 
Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 
Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 
Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 
Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of this verse is about 70 AD. Look at the verses that come after "the times of the Gentiles" comes to an end.)

The Coming of the Son of Man

Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 
Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 
Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 
Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 


The Second Coming of Christ occurs when the "times of the Gentiles" comes to an end.
How many LOLs will it take to change this fact?



.
 
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Quasar92

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Note: Matthew 24 text will be in (red), all other scriptures in (purple).
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After nearly 2000 years, Christ’s Olivet Discourse still remains a hotly debated subject among biblical scholars, not only because of the controversial rapture and/or second coming issue, but also because many scholars surprisingly contend that it has already been fulfilled. My interpretation differs widely from most Eschatology scholar’s, mainly because the vast majority of them have reached their conclusions without studying the entire text. To be clear, most scholars do not include Matthew 25, probably because they are either intimidated by Christ’s parables, cannot reconcile them with their beliefs about Matthew 24 or maybe they don’t believe the parables are related. It seems obvious to me, though, that if a theory must ignore or is incompatible with these parables, then it is likely an incorrect interpretation. Christ provided these parables so that the wise could better understand this profound mystery, but at the same time, they would also be a stumbling block for the wicked or foolish.
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Matthew 13:10-11 – “And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.”
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It is because of these parables that I have gained a better understanding, which has allowed me to go much deeper into this subject. After years of study, it’s my humble opinion that if a theory or interpretation of Matthew 24 is going to carry any weight, it must be compatible with all of the parables that follow into chapter 25 as well, which is the rest of Christ’s answer to His disciple’s question. I don’t view this as a competition with other scholars, but I do believe my interpretation is the only one, that I’m aware of, anyway, that fits this criterion. To my surprise, going deeper in these parables has also led me to the discovery of a brand new rapture theory. Though, it was never my intention to design or create a new rapture theory. It just seemed to happen while I was breaking down Christ’s answer to His disciple’s question about the sign of His coming (Matthew 24:3). In fact, I didn’t even realize I had a new theory until after I had finished proof reading the first copy of my book, which includes a complete breakdown of Matthew 24 and 25, and also includes my interpretation of these parables.
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Matthew 13:34-35 – “Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. 35 So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”
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Most scholars agree that the events written in Mathew 24 will be fulfilled sometime in the near future, but, again, an overwhelming majority of them have not included chapter 25 in their study. The most popular rapture theory teaches that Matthew 24 only relates to the physical second coming of Christ to the earth (pre-tribulation rapture). The second most popular theory (post-tribulation rapture) teaches that Mathew 24 relates to both, the rapture and the second coming. And this is where my theory begins to separate from all others, because in my view, Matthew 24 reveals only the rapture, not Christ’s physical second coming to the earth. It’s not the text that is controversial; but rather, the way that many have interpreted it. And by simply studying the entire text, one thing I’ve discovered is that verse (31) is key in both chapters. Matthew 24:31 is the rapture, while Matthew 25:31 is the second coming. So without any further ado, let’s dive in and breakdown Matthew 24 and I’ll share some other things I’ve discovered as well.
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Matthew 24:1-2 (MEV) – Jesus departed from the temple and was leaving when His disciples came to show Him the temple buildings. 2 Jesus answered them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another that shall not be thrown down.”
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The passage above is the only portion of Matthew 24 that has already been fulfilled, when the Roman armies sacked Jerusalem about 40 years later, in AD 70. Notice that Jesus was just leaving the Temple in the passage above. Then there was probably a long pause, before His disciples’ asked Him the most interesting question. Notice in the next passage, that they were now sitting on the Mount of Olives. I suppose that they must have been pondering or imagining the future destruction of the Temple, as they walked their way up the Mount of Olives, which led to their next question, in private or while they were away from the crowd that was leaving the Temple.
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Matthew 24:3 “As He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?”
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This is a very interesting question, indeed. Though it can’t be proven, I get the sense, that as they asked this question; His disciple’s probably presumed that the destruction of the temple and the sign of his coming and the end of the age would all occur in close proximity to each other or near the same time, and that they would still be alive to see it all. Nevertheless, we now know that was not the case, as the fulfillments of these events were many centuries apart. Christ made no further mention of the temple in His answer. The temple was destroyed in the first century, yet here we are today, still waiting for the sign of His coming and the end of the age to be fulfilled. Notice below, that Christ devoted His entire lengthy answer to their question, concerning only the sign of His coming and the end of the age, not the temple.
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Matthew 24:4-8 “Jesus answered them, “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled. For all these things must happen, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines, epidemics, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.”
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As I stated earlier, some scholars actually believe all of these things have already been fulfilled in the first century. And there are other scholars that believe the first-half of Daniel’s 70th week (Dan. 9:27 – final 7 years) has already been fulfilled as well; which would leave only the abomination of desolation and the great tribulation, the final 3.5 years before Christ returns remaining. I disagree with both positions above. I contend that everything in Christ’s answer will be fulfilled in the future, the entire seven years. That’s 3.5 years (birth pains), plus 3.5 years (great trib.). His answer relates only to the sign of His coming. His disciples probably expected to be alive to see the sign of His coming when they asked Him this question, but since He still has not returned since ascending into the clouds, none of these things apply to their generation. All of these signs apply to the final generation that will witness His coming.
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Not only have we had impostors claiming to be Christ, but we have also seen many cults come in His name as well, and they have deceived multitudes of believers. Today we can really relate to the wars and rumors of wars as they are broadcasted daily on television, but they will only increase. Famines and diseases were few in the first century but they will become more widespread the closer we get to the time of the end. Earthquakes were also rare 2000 years ago, but they’ve been steadily increasing. We can expect them to start popping all over the world like popcorn when His coming nears. Christ said these things are the beginning of sorrows (birth pains), which is another sign. All of these things will be increasing in frequency and intensity, just like the labor pains of a pregnant woman. These signs must be important, because Paul and John left us clues about them as well (like a woman in travail with child), which relate to the nearness of His coming and a future time of pseudo-peace.
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1 Thessalonians 5:1-3“But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
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Revelation 12:1-2And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
Continued...


Please accept my compliments on the obvious research, study and time you took in compiling your Biblical study of Jesus two future comings.

One thing we need to keep in mind is the fact that Jesus ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He proclaimed in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6. The church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit nd not yet come, as recorded in Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, as recorded in Acts 1:9 and in 2>1-3.

The only references to a rapture of the Church in Jesus teachings are found in Mt.24:31, where the angels are gathering the elect from one end of the hevens to the other. Where they were gthering the elect of Israel from the four winds. And in Lk.21:36, where Jesus exhorted prayer and watchfulness in order to escape all of "these things." Where His reference was to the Great Tribulation He had been referring to in His Olivet Discourse. The most important one is that of Jn.14:2-3, 28, where Jesus refers to His going away to prepare a place for us in His Father's house, that has many mansions. And that He will come back for us and take us back to be with Him, where He was.

God Bless.


Qusar92
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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The text of Romans 11 says that Israel has been blinded "in part" (Romans 11:25). You left out that for some reason. This does not mean that all Israelites have been "partially" blinded. Based in Romans 11:1-5, it means that part of them have been blinded or hardened as to who the Messiah is and part of them have not.


The Church has not replaced Israel. The Church is the fulfillment of Israel through the "seed of the woman" from Genesis 3:15, which is found fulfilled in Matthew 1:1.
On the Day of Pentecost, Peter addressed the crowd as "all the house of Israel" in Acts 2:36.
During the first few years of the Church, almost all of its members were Israelites. All of Israel has not rejected the Messiah.


It is Dispensationalists who are teaching "Replacement Theology".

They have replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.

They have replaced the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8.

They have replaced the Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one Olive Tree, with a Church made up only of Gentiles.
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Good job! We can finally agree on something. But this is as far as it goes.
I don't agree with the rest of your post, as usual. You either can't relate to or refuse to see my view, which is fine. Lord knows it's not for everyone. But I'm not going to continue our discussion, because all you're doing now is repeating yourself, and I refuse to waste time going round and round, like a dog chasing its tail; which, by the way, was the reason for my sarcastic lol's, not to mention your disrespectfulness. It does get old after a while. So it's just time to disagree and part ways.

Cheers
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Please accept my compliments on the obvious research, study and time you took in compiling your Biblical study of Jesus two future comings.

One thing we need to keep in mind is the fact that Jesus ministry during His first advent was exclusively to Israel, as He proclaimed in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6. The church did not exist then, because the Holy Spirit nd not yet come, as recorded in Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, as recorded in Acts 1:9 and in 2>1-3.

The only references to a rapture of the Church in Jesus teachings are found in Mt.24:31, where the angels are gathering the elect from one end of the hevens to the other. Where they were gthering the elect of Israel from the four winds. And in Lk.21:36, where Jesus exhorted prayer and watchfulness in order to escape all of "these things." Where His reference was to the Great Tribulation He had been referring to in His Olivet Discourse. The most important one is that of Jn.14:2-3, 28, where Jesus refers to His going away to prepare a place for us in His Father's house, that has many mansions. And that He will come back for us and take us back to be with Him, where He was.

God Bless.


Qusar92

Thank you, Qusar92!

You are one of the few that has eyes to see this.

I agree that Christ's ministry was solely to Israel. Israel was indeed first, but we should not forget, that it was none other than Christ, Himself, that called Paul to preach to the Gentiles. After all, He died for the sins of the world.

The only thing that kinda rubs me wrong is where you said, "Where they were gthering the elect of Israel from the four winds." When you put it that way, the elect of Israel could only be the believing remnant of Israel, but this would also include the believing Gentiles who are grafted in as well, as the four winds speaks of a worldwide harvest (north, east, south & west). Also, don't forget all of Christ's parable references to the rapture as well.

Cheers
 
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BABerean2

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Good job! We can finally agree on something. But this is as far as it goes.
I don't agree with the rest of your post, as usual.

Which part did you agree with?

Challenging the Bible doctrine of another person on this forum does not mean one is "disrespectful" of the person.

There are some here who talk to me like they hate my guts.
However, I still love them.
Based on the words of Christ, I have no other choice.


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