Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

Are Jesus' Commandments opposed to God's Ten Commandments?

  • No Jesus taught in perfect harmony with the Father and the Ten Commandments

  • Jesus came to delete/oppose God's Ten Commandments

  • Jesus taught us to edit the Ten Commandments replacing some but not others

  • Jesus' commandments are based on Love - God's Commandments are not and are ended

  • I don't know - I have not given this much thought so far.


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1stcenturylady

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Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.
.

I did in #1026. But, I'll do it again.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

You go ahead and follow the law of sin and death, but those with Christ's Spirit will follow the law of the Spirit.
 
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1stcenturylady

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This is a blatantly false accusation,
and you should know it is already.
Shame on you.

Jeff, Did Christ died so we could stay under the law which man doesn't keep. No He died so His Spirit could be in EVERY Christian and be righteous through Him. There is a big difference.
 
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BobRyan

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QUOTE="BobRyan, post: 71461078, member: 235244"]
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[/QUOTE

Such a simple reminder - the carnal mind (the normal human mind)
cannot in any way please God -
not even if it kept all the commandments ! !
Without the Spirit of Christ, "he is none of HIS" !!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, if the Spirit of God dwell in a person -
they love God's Law/ TORAH/ Instructions all the time, every one of them.
They don't even need a copy of the TORAH !!!
They don't have to learn the commandments,
BECAUSE the commandments are WRITTEN ON THEIR HEART ...
They will DO BETTER than those who have the TORAH > those who are hearers only > and not DOERS....

Those who have the Spirit of God dwelling in them,
obey God out of sheer grace and love and faith,
and could not even think of sinning (of breaking any commandment written or not) except it deeply grieve them.

Children of God seek whole-heartedly to please the Father,
with their whole heart and soul and mind,
with all that is within them ! YES ! YES ! YES ! IN JESUS !!!!!!!!!!

Those who are not born again,
those who do not have a new heart,
cannot please the Father.

Indeed Romans 8 is very obvious and clear just as you said. :)
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, I made it up, to show the point in Romans 7 and 8


Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.


4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Next... Romans 6.

Jeff, Did Christ died so we could stay under the law which man doesn't keep. No He died so His Spirit could be in EVERY Christian and be righteous through Him. There is a big difference.

Either-or false-divisions do not work - as Romans 8 demonstrates
 
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BobRyan

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Yes, I made it up, to show the point in Romans 7 and 8


Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.


4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Next... Romans 6.


try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

I did in #1026. But, I'll do it again.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

You quoted it -- and I highlighted your quote for emphasis. And presto! looks like mine! (Just had to removed the false-accusation ad hominem you inserted at the end)

See we have agreement just when you thought your Romans 8 was so very different from mine.

And as for Romans 6 ....

Romans 6 requires obedience to the word of God - under grace.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.



1 Cor 6

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"
 
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BobRyan

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Bob S, Bugkiller and Listed,
I feel like I have replied to your questions and I was hoping one of you could reply to the question I asked of you.

Where was it prophecied in the Tenakh (OT) that the Messiah was going to do away with God's law?

Very good point!

Answer: nowhere

New Covenant "I will WRITE My Law on their heart and mind" is not "I will DELETE My Law".
 
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listed

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I did in #1026. But, I'll do it again.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you."

You go ahead and follow the law of sin and death, but those with Christ's Spirit will follow the law of the Spirit.
I doubt he listened this time, too.
 
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Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.


4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Next... Romans 6.



Either-or false-divisions do not work - as Romans 8 demonstrates
Your post indicate those responding here are the lost. I disagree with you and from my personal relationship with God.
 
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Nice - here is an idea - try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.

Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.


4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Next... Romans 6.


try quoting Romans 7 and 8 to make the point of Romans 7 and 8.



You quoted it -- and I highlighted your quote for emphasis. And presto! looks like mine! (Just had to removed the false-accusation ad hominem you inserted at the end)

See we have agreement just when you thought your Romans 8 was so very different from mine.

And as for Romans 6 ....
What "false-accusation ad hominem" are you talking about?
 
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BobRyan

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Your post indicate those responding here are the lost. I disagree with you and from my personal relationship with God.

My post was a quote of Romans 8 where Paul contrasts the saved with the lost.

You are free to interpret Romans 8 as you wish -- you have free will.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Very good point!

Answer: nowhere

New Covenant "I will WRITE My Law on their heart and mind" is not "I will DELETE My Law".

I think the problem is the word "law." I see the eternal law of God as this, to love God with all your strength, mind, and body, and your neighbor as yourself. And you know that is law.

However, when it comes to "commandments" you believe the Ten Commandments ARE the law, not just contains the law. They are the Old Covenant, but because they tell us what NOT to do, one automatically thinks on those things, and Romans 7 calls that the law of sin and death. Whereas, a positive commandment does not. Jesus' commandments of the New Covenant are positive. To believe on His Son, Jesus Christ and to love one another. These are the law of the Spirit.

That is why the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

We are not free from the eternal law of God to love Him and our neighbor, we are only free from the negative laws of what NOT to do.
 
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Romans 8 -- proving that the lost are at war with God and His Law.

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

And 1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT -- still

In Romans 3:19-20 Paul explains the term "UNDER the LAW" means condemned by the LAW as a sinner and going to hell.

So then in Romans 6 the point is made for those who are under the Gospel and no longer going to hell. Does Paul say in Romans 6 that continued rebellion against the LAW of God is going to work for Christians??

So then Romans 6 "Under the LAW" vs "Under Grace"

Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.



1 Cor 6

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"




I think the problem is the word "law."

Jeremiah knew about God's Law - so did his readers.

Jer 31
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My Law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people

However, when it comes to "commandments" you believe the Ten Commandments ARE the law, not just contains the law. .

That is "spin doctoring" -- I believe the LAW of God includes the TEN Commandments - so did Jeremiah and his readers believe the same thing while ALSO believing that the LAW of Moses in Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart" was included AND ALSO believing that the LAW of Moses in Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself" was ALSO included.

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW by our faith? God forbid! IN fact we ESTABLISH the LAW"

Mark 7:6-13
6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the Word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Traditions and commandments of "men" -- contrasted to the "Word of God" the "Commandment of God" -- "Moses said"
 
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They are the Old Covenant, but because they tell us what NOT to do,

They tell us NOT to take God's name in vain.
And they tell us TO - Keep the Sabbath Holy

This is the Law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 when one is under the NEW Covenant - with that LAW "Written on the heart and mind".

It is only death - when one is not born-again and that LAW is merely external. It condemns - see Romans 3:19-20
 
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1stcenturylady

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They tell us NOT to take God's name in vain.
And they tell us TO - Keep the Sabbath Holy

This is the Law of the Spirit of LIFE in Christ Jesus "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19 when one is under the NEW Covenant - with that LAW "Written on the heart and mind".

It is only death - when one is not born-again and that LAW is merely external. It condemns - see Romans 3:19-20

Right, the Sabbath was added as the SIGN of the Old Covenant, but in the commandments of Jesus, we find Jesus is on that side.

commandments 1 - 4 = Jesus - sign - Sabbath
commandments 6 - 10 = neighbors - sign - Cup of the New Covenant
 
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My post was a quote of Romans 8 where Paul contrasts the saved with the lost.

You are free to interpret Romans 8 as you wish -- you have free will.
Paul is not contrasting the righteous with the unrighteous. Paul is talking about the difference between the soul (spirit) and the flesh (our body).

bugkiller
 
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