Penance and/or Temporal Consequences of Sin

ViaCrucis · Jul 2, 2017

So I am aware that penance, as understood by Rome, is rejected in our churches; due to the error in believing that penitential works carry salvific merit. Though I am aware that in the Eastern Churches Confession and Absolution also tends to carry recommend for acts of healing, such as if I do something against my neighbor, I am to go and make amends to my neighbor.

Something I am unaware of is how this "works" in the Lutheran tradition. Namely, I would think we would probably agree that if I steal something, and then confess this sin either as part of the public confession of the Church or privately to my pastor it is not true contrition unless I return the stolen object, make amends with the one I stole from, etc. Specifically, when it comes to repentance and contrition, confession and absolution, what is the Lutheran position on addressing what we might call the temporal consequences of sin, and/or making amends with my neighbor when my sin has violated them? Further, where might I find this in the BoC for my own edification on the subject, assuming it is addressed?

-CryptoLutheran

AMM · Jul 2, 2017

I've got just the thing for you! I was listening to the BoC on audiobook the other day (it's available for free on LibriVox! Definitely check it out), and I came across these parts.

Apology XIIa (V): Repentance said:
28] In order, therefore, to deliver pious consciences from these labyrinths of the sophists, we have ascribed to repentance [or conversion] these two parts, namely, contrition and faith. If any one desires to add a third, namely, fruits worthy of repentance, i.e., a change of the entire life and character for the better [good works which shall and must follow conversion], 29] we will not make any opposition.

ibid said:
37] Neither is love present before reconciliation has been made by faith. For without Christ the Law [God's Law or the First Commandment] is not performed, according to [Eph. 2:18; 3:12 ] Rom. 5:2: By Christ we have access to God. And this faith grows gradually and throughout the entire life, struggles with sin [is tested by various temptations] in order to overcome sin and death. 38] But love follows faith, as we have said above. And thus filial fear can be clearly defined as such anxiety as has been connected with faith, i.e., where faith consoles and sustains the anxious heart. It is servile fear when faith does not sustain the anxious heart [fear without faith, where there is nothing but wrath and doubt].

ibid said:
45] You see also here that the two parts are joined, contrition when sins are reproved, and faith, when it is said: Believe the Gospel. If any one should say here that Christ includes also the fruits of repentance or the entire new life, we shall not dissent. For this suffices us, that contrition and faith are named as the chief parts.

(Emphasis mine)

That whole article, as well as the following (Ap XIIb (VI): Of Confession and Satisfaction), will probably be helpful for you. There are other sections such as XIIa 56-58 or XIIb 21-26 that address punishments as well. Essentially, we don't object to the idea of temporal punishments, teaching good works (3rd use of the law), etc. We do object to the idea that those remit sin or guilt, however.

Is that what you're looking for?

ViaCrucis · Jul 2, 2017

Lutheran Monk said:
I've got just the thing for you! I was listening to the BoC on audiobook the other day (it's available for free on LibriVox! Definitely check it out), and I came across these parts.

(Emphasis mine)

That whole article, as well as the following (Ap XIIb (VI): Of Confession and Satisfaction), will probably be helpful for you. There are other sections such as XIIa 56-58 or XIIb 21-26 that address punishments as well. Essentially, we don't object to the idea of temporal punishments, teaching good works (3rd use of the law), etc. We do object to the idea that those remit sin or guilt, however.

Is that what you're looking for?

Very helpful, thank you!

-CryptoLutheran

FireDragon76 · Jul 2, 2017

It's letting the camel's nose into the tent. You might encourage somebody to return stolen goods, if it is wise to do so, but I don't think it's good to imply that forgiveness is conditioned on fruits of repentance. I've been to those types of churches and I don't care for it in my religion.

I can think of alot of reasons why making that sort of demand would not be wise, as well. For one thing, prison sentences in our current culture are unlikely to be rehabilitative and there is a great deal of injustice in the legal system. So it's placing an additional burden on someone who could have simply refrained from privately hearing absolution and still had complete confidence in their justification by faith. That actually works against the whole purpose of having private confession, as a result.

Daniel9v9 · Jul 4, 2017

May or may not be relevant to what you're asking, but I think we are certainly taught to make amends in the the Sermon on the Mount - particularly Matthew 5:23-26 (First and Third use of the Law is clear)
Then there's also Zacchaeus in Luke 19:8-9

I know we don't offer literal sacrifices or preform Romish Penance, but we shouldn't be allergic to making amends or any good works; we are still to do good works, even though our salvation doesn't depend on it. Ephesians 2:10 really sums it up.

At least that's my 2 cents.

ViaCrucis · Jul 4, 2017

Daniel9v9 said:
May or may not be relevant to what you're asking, but I think we are certainly taught to make amends in the the Sermon on the Mount - particularly Matthew 5:23-26 (First and Third use of the Law is clear)
Then there's also Zacchaeus in Luke 19:8-9

I know we don't offer literal sacrifices or preform Romish Penance, but we shouldn't be allergic to making amends or any good works; we are still to do good works, even though our salvation doesn't depend on it. Ephesians 2:10 really sums it up.

At least that's my 2 cents.

That passage was certainly on my mind in all this. It's largely why I mentioned that true contrition seems like it would be accompanied by seeking to make amends; though we need to be careful not to treat this good work as meritorious or conditional of God's forgiveness. On the one hand if I hurt my neighbor and grieve over it, but ignore my neighbor then I'm adding sin to sin; on the other hand we need to always keep in mind that the mercy and forgiveness we have from God isn't dependent on us and what we do, but on what Christ has done for us--there is forgiveness because we are forgiven in and by Christ's work done on our behalf. In response to this forgiveness, in faith and love, go to my neighbor to mend that relationship.

This therefore fitting into the dichotomous framework of Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus; that before God I am forgiven for Christ's; and in relation to my neighbor the Law rules so that I go and love my neighbor for my neighbor's sake. And here I feel reminded of Luther's statement,

"Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever."

-CryptoLutheran

Daniel9v9 · Jul 4, 2017

ViaCrucis said:
That passage was certainly on my mind in all this. It's largely why I mentioned that true contrition seems like it would be accompanied by seeking to make amends; though we need to be careful not to treat this good work as meritorious or conditional of God's forgiveness. On the one hand if I hurt my neighbor and grieve over it, but ignore my neighbor then I'm adding sin to sin; on the other hand we need to always keep in mind that the mercy and forgiveness we have from God isn't dependent on us and what we do, but on what Christ has done for us--there is forgiveness because we are forgiven in and by Christ's work done on our behalf. In response to this forgiveness, in faith and love, go to my neighbor to mend that relationship.

This therefore fitting into the dichotomous framework of Coram Deo and Coram Hominibus; that before God I am forgiven for Christ's; and in relation to my neighbor the Law rules so that I go and love my neighbor for my neighbor's sake. And here I feel reminded of Luther's statement,

"Yes, it is a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever."

-CryptoLutheran

Yep. That's what I'm saying with Ephesians 2:10

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Penance and/or Temporal Consequences of Sin

ViaCrucis

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AMM

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ViaCrucis

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FireDragon76

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Daniel9v9

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ViaCrucis

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Daniel9v9

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