Why Sin??

There's consequences to everything done in life, even outside of religion, we have choices to make everyday and whatever we choose no matter the situation its gonna have a good or bad reaction and consequence. That's everywhere in life.

Welcome to CF btw so glad to see you

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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Perfect Justice requires not just suffering, but death for sin.

Learn from YHWH what His Will is - it is different than you were taught (what you posted),
and is without any fault, not even a shadow.

manishk012 said:

Choice is itself dependent on various factors such as the situations, intellect, memory. Hence, there can't be free choice.

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Do you live in a town, a city, or in the country side (outside of cities) ?

manishk012 said:

Choice is itself dependent on various factors such as the situations, intellect, memory. Hence, there can't be free choice.

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Yes there are always various factors to anything in life, but ultimately WE have the choice of what decision we make, nobody can make you decide something internally that YOU DO NOT want, such as faith and matters of the heart, NO MAN CAN SEE THAT BUT GOD. No matter what outward appearances are, the internal is another world and the scales of decision are something that man cannot see, because it is internal.

manishk012 said:

But any decision is made with the help of intellect. For example, child's choice and the wise man's choices are different because former is ignorant. Hence it shows, that ignorance plays the major factor in choices or decisions. In fact a normal person can't make choices like a saint suddenly. In fact, there are rare cases, where some situation or suffering has turned the person's heart but again it is the situation. The choices, the thoughts, the actions everything is in the whirlpool of time, if you closely investigate.

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True to some extent, BUT some choices are not made by intellect its made from the heart. The two battles within is between the mind of what we know and the heart of what we feel, yes?

manishk012 said:

Yes, the choices are made from the mind as well as from the heart. Again, the person who is more pure for example, a saint, his decision is spontaneous i.e from the heart whereas the ignorant or the normal person's most choices are made from the mind. Hence it shows, It is the degree of purity which is the influencing factor here. The more pure the person, the more he listens to his heart or intuition. Again, the degree of purity is dependent on time,situations as discussed.

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I for one am not pure nor do I know of anyone being pure, and a saint, never met one personally. As for me myself and I , just simply seeking after the one that made my heart feel peace that none other has ever brought me, my heart and my mind both can agree.

manishk012 said:

But any decision is made with the help of intellect.

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The choice is still one of who to serve- YHWH or other.
With only one choice, Jesus, leading to life, and producing life all along the way,
and all others leading to destruction/ death/ all along the way.

Man suffers every day, and dies, because of sin. This is truth of all mankind.

A few suffer because they seek and learn and live for the TRUTH.
That's all it takes in this evil wicked society to be persecuted -
society loves its own,
but hates Jesus and all the followers of Jesus.

Solomons Porch said:

I for one am not pure nor do I know of anyone being pure, and a saint, never met one personally.

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This is truth for most people on earth,
at least not ever recognizing someone who is pure at heart, a saint, as described fully in the NEW TESTAMENT.
We cannot trust man's appraisal, but must rely on God's appraisal,
and
most of us will only find this in His Word, as He Permits.
i.e. you might even know (without recognizing) someone who is pure at heart, a saint,
or see them every day bagging groceries, cutting yards, or whatever...
wherever they 'happen' to be / work....
they do not seek attention nor draw attention to themselves.

Also, God's Word describes simply how to be pure, who is a saint
according to Him,
and by faith and grace in Jesus
(today, and ever since the first century) (it is not a 'catholic' idea, nor does it fit with their doctrines).

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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God is not behind every action. He has afforded us free will, without which life would be robotic, loveless and meaningless. Instead, we are made in His image, the crown of creation, capable of choice and love.

God warned Adam not to sin. He wouldn't have done that if He wanted Him to sin. Eventually, taking away man's free will becomes an accusation against the character of God, making Him responsible for sin and its consequence, death - things that actually are antithetical to the nature of God.

Hello manishk, you are an interesting thinker! May I ask, which practise has contributed the most constructively to your present philosophy?

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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I would like to know where this idea has originated, that God's will is there behind every action. Christianity teaches that some of the angels in heaven (those influencing spirits) have fought against God. (Consider Revelation 12:7-12 and Matthew 25:41). It also teaches that mankind himself keeps dishonouring God and that it keeps on misrepresenting Him by doing whatever it wants to do, but by doing it in His name without seeking His permission (Matthew 7:21-23).

I also would like to ensure that your concept of sin is reliable, because many Christians are confused about it. St. James states that "he who knows the good he should do, and does not do it, to him it is sin". So what this does, is it places a burden upon our conscience that we cannot escape, and it gives valid strength to an accuser. The demons are the ones who seek to destroy us by ruining our faith. They watch for every mistake we make so that they might torment us with guilt for our errors (because everybody really does want to be a good person .. just some people also like to do what is not good, for various reasons ).

Now, when our spiritual enemy accuses us for the sin we do, there is two possible reactions: we might be remorseful and make adjustments to reduce future grievances, or we might choose to listen to a deceiving spirit that will adjust our definition of sin. This is how Christians who once knew The Holy Spirit begin to walk in the darkness (1 John 1:6), not being pure of conscience and able to possess absolute authority (their enslavement to deceit so as to avoid repentance is a weakness in their righteousness, that they cannot be 100% firm about the truth at all times - see John 3:20-21).

St. Paul wrote "Whomever you present yourself to as a servant for obedience, you are that one's servant whom you obey. Whether of sin to death or of obedience to righteousness".

This is why Jesus spoke of Christianity as being a narrow path, and that many take a broad road that leads to destruction. This is how Gandhi has been right to say "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians - your Christians are so unlike your Christ".

manishk012 said:

Choice is itself dependent on various factors such as the situations, intellect, memory. Hence, there can't be free choice.

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Actually, it is Jesus' goal to set us free from sin that we can make informed choices (John 8:34-36). Terrifying as it is, and difficult sometimes to own, it is ultimately much less harmful to the world if we will own our choices instead of becoming enslaved to sin as someone who is incapable of free choice (2 Corinthians 10:5, James 3:2), but who acts as you have described, according to an animalistic instinct (2 Peter 2:12).

manishk012 said:

But any decision is made with the help of intellect. For example, child's choice and the wise man's choices are different because former is ignorant. Hence it shows, that ignorance plays the major factor in choices or decisions. In fact a normal person can't make choices like a saint suddenly. In fact, there are rare cases, where some situation or suffering has turned the person's heart but again it is the situation. The choices, the thoughts, the actions everything is in the whirlpool of time, if you closely investigate.

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I say that ignorance is mostly the cause of mistakes, whereas knowledge is the beginning of temptation to sin. Children make bad decisions in ignorance yet are innocent in the judgement because of their ignorance (ponder this point: Matthew 18:3). Adults make bad decisions, rationalising one way or another to believe that the potential accusations will not be a consequence (this is to use deceit for the purpose of doing sin - James 4:17, Psalms 53:2).

manishk012 said:

Yes, the choices are made from the mind as well as from the heart. Again, the person who is more pure for example, a saint, his decision is spontaneous i.e from the heart whereas the ignorant or the normal person's most choices are made from the mind. Hence it shows, It is the degree of purity which is the influencing factor here. The more pure the person, the more he listens to his heart or intuition. Again, the degree of purity is dependent on time,situations as discussed.

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You have a very valuable understanding! I would like to add to your views, by saying that when we are not in a state of saintliness (this is called "sanctification" in Christian terms), we are constantly living in the past. It takes time for light and sound to travel to and through our senses before it registers in our brain, and then we subsequently process a response. That is, to live in the carnal realm. When we live in the spiritual realm, we are creating reality by manifesting our spirit through word and deed. This is why it is mandatory that one who becomes a master in the spiritual realm, keeps on the narrow path of truth by following The Holy One.

I am looking forward to your thoughts!

Hello manishk, you have a very valuable understanding, and I would like to add Christian perspectives to your views. My hope is that you'd be so passionate about the truth in Jesus' name that you must not leave this website!

I have thought to add one more statement to what I said yesterday, in this:

Serving Zion said:

by saying that when we are not in a state of saintliness (this is called "sanctification" in Christian terms), we are constantly living in the past. It takes time for light and sound to travel to and through our senses before it registers in our brain, and then we subsequently process a response. That is, to live in the carnal realm.

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I contrasted this against the type of person who is sanctified and who has life in the spirit realm. I'd like to add an extra comprehension for you, that these ones who are not sanctified and who are always living in response to the world, these are they who have been spiritually quickened (no longer alive in the spirit).

By not clinging to the path of truth and choosing deceit instead (as I described to you that children are tempted by power of deceit as they take possession of the accountability that once belonged to their parents and are lured by their desires to transgress their moral compass), this is falling away from The Holy Spirit, rejecting His parental role by choosing to not stay purely blameless in His sight; believing instead that He should hold them blameless on an ultimate day of reckoning (He is also called "The Spirit of Truth" - referring to the personal representative of God in the spiritual realm, whom we come to know as a counsellor, helper etc (John 14:26)).

Jesus teaches that eternal life is about us coming to know God in the here and now, and the one whom He sent (John 17:3).

St. Paul writes "I was alive once apart from the law, but when the command came, sin came to life and I died". He writes that it is only by the grace of God that he was able to be freed from his bondage to sin, why? Because God does not desire that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and have eternal life, this is why He strives with them patiently, through our faithful words of conviction, until one day they might hopefully repent before it is too late and before they have destroyed too much in His name (Genesis 6:3).

There is quite some thinking required for a person to grasp Christian perspectives, and some of the terminologies are highly developed within Christianity to express deeply meaningful concepts. I really hope you will be stirred up to just come back here again in case you might find those divine words that facilitates Him to speak to your heart, making it worth your while to hear the testimony of Jesus Christ.

If so, and while I have your attention, I'd like to offer that you look over the core points of the gospel in case you might recognise the voice of The Holy Spirit in doing so:

Adonai Reigns : The Gospel : God did not send his son to condemn the world!

.. I am still looking forward to your thoughts, please share what you have with us!

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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There are many questions we have to address prior , before we really understood to answer the op.

Who we are, why should we be here in this perishable world that sins are inevitability ( if humans were created from His faithful angels then surely they live eternally and free from sin ), Who is God, what is His plan about us.

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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When a man walks from a brightly lit room to a dark room, he stumbles and falls in the dark. So do all who have turned away from God to seek their own way stumble in the dark, for they "loved darkness rather than light" (John 3:19)

-CryptoLutheran

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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Why do think God's will is behind every action of man, both good and evil?

It seems pretty evident to me that if God has ordained that people should suffer as a consequence of their sinful choices, those choices are made in such a way as to incur human responsibility for them.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

.........................
Man suffers every day, and dies, because of sin. This is truth of all mankind....................

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Yes.
517 of the Laws of Moses were written for the wellbeing, health, security, safety, cohesion and increase of the Israelite peoples. Even the 96 laws about sacrifice were intended to strengthen the whole nation.

You won't find one law that does not aim to achieve the above. Every single one was crucial, back in the day, in those times. And breaking them (sin) would lead to weakness, sickness, insecurity, social collapse.

And no one law has any more weight than any other law. By this I mean that even laws which seemed unimportant were seriously important, just as all the others.

Try it. Pick any one of the laws of Moses, and then consider how keeping it was beneficial for the whole people.

If you find one which is doubtful, please show it.

manishk012 said:

If God's will is there behind every action, both good and evil,then why man suffers for the evil actions.

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Maybe sin is its own punishment?