Questions About Heaven and Hell

~Anastasia~ said:

Some of it was, some of it wasn't.

I'm sorry that I'm unable to comment line by line, and that's what it would take. There is a great mixture there.

But you were correct in your idea that Satan doesn't permanently "own" anyone. It's really not a matter of "Satan's kingdom" vs. "God's Kingdom". Rather, God offers everyone healing of the effects of sin, and forgiveness. We can either accept that or reject it. Satan doesn't have a kingdom, doesn't "own" anyone, and any "contract" with Satan is meaningless - UNLESS God were to completely withdraw His grace from a (reprobate) person, in which case salvation would be impossible. But there is no reason to believe God is concerned with any so-called "contract" with Satan. As always, He is concerned instead with our hearts, and our disposition toward Him.

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Do you agree with this statement that Billy Graham made in a book he wrote called " the classic writings of billy graham"? " He said, had Adam and Eve resisted the devil, he would have fled, forever defeated."

Adam chose to take the forbidden fruit not being deceived, so it's possible God would have been disobeyed later.

footnote: see in many online websites exposing false gospels/ related to the world church/
A LOT of what Billy Graham taught was very bad and very wrong. He apparantly departed far from traditional (perhaps even more from orthodox) theology.
In fact, check out, for instance, if or that he was a high order mason, and other associations he had with NON-Christian leaders, in union with them, contrary to all Scripture.

Superhero Sam said:

Do you agree with this statement that Billy Graham made in a book he wrote called " the classic writings of billy graham"? " He said, had Adam and Eve resisted the devil, he would have fled, forever defeated."

Adam chose to take the forbidden fruit not being deceived, so it's possible God would have been disobeyed later.

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My thoughts are ...

1. We don't and can't really know "what would have happened" in any case in history other than what DID happen, and while there's nothing wrong with speculating for fun if one must, we should never make doctrine from our guesses

2. When we resist the enemy, does he flee forever, never to return? No ... he simply tries a different (or even the same) tactic. I doubt a simple "no" from Adam/Eve would have defeated him forever - he had already succeeded in leading a rebellion among the angelic host

3. Only God knows if mankind would have sinned otherwise ... but we had that potential, obviously, and God had the plan to heal us from the fall so ... who knows? Maybe it was inevitable? I'm not going to give a firm answer though - see number 1 above

~Anastasia~ said:

We can't "sell ourselves" to the devil.

We are already slaves to sin if we do not come to Christ. If we come to Christ, Satan has no hold on us.

Satan would not have "owned Jesus' soul" if he had been successful at tempting Him (God forbid).

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In one of Goodfight Ministries videos they said the spirits used elvis presley to to spread the new age lie.

Superhero Sam said:

In one of Goodfight Ministries videos they said the spirits used elvis presley to to spread the new age lie.

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How does that relate to Anastasia's post?

Satan cannot own any of our souls. Jesus defeated the power of death and the hold of sin (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). Until the very end, we can turn back to God, even up unto the 11th hour (think of the thief who is now in paradise - Luke 23:43). Just like the father of the prodigal son, He is waiting with arms open to receive us all. Remember, He desires the salvation of all (1 Timothy 2:4). We certainly can open ourselves up to sin and follow the temptation of the Enemy. Spirits are certainly real. However, while we can open ourselves up to evil, Satan cannot "own" our souls.

A side note - the Goodfight Ministries videos seem to make many judgments about others and the reasons behind their choices. It seems to focus so much on the negative things others are doing at the exclusion of learning how to grow closer to God ourselves (Philippians 4:8).

All4Christ said:

How does that relate to Anastasia's post?

Satan cannot own any of our souls. Jesus defeated the power of death and the hold of sin (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). Until the very end, we can turn back to God, even up unto the 11th hour (think of the thief who is now in paradise - Luke 23:43). Just like the father of the prodigal son, He is waiting with arms open to receive us all. Remember, He desires the salvation of all (1 Timothy 2:4). We certainly can open ourselves up to sin and follow the temptation of the Enemy. Spirits are certainly real. However, while we can open ourselves up to evil, Satan cannot "own" our souls.

A side note - the Goodfight Ministries videos seem to make many judgments about others and the reasons behind their choices. It seems to focus so much on the negative things others are doing at the exclusion of learning how to grow closer to God ourselves (Philippians 4:8).

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What do you mean by judgements?

All4Christ said:

How does that relate to Anastasia's post?

Satan cannot own any of our souls. Jesus defeated the power of death and the hold of sin (1 Corinthians 15:55-57). Until the very end, we can turn back to God, even up unto the 11th hour (think of the thief who is now in paradise - Luke 23:43). Just like the father of the prodigal son, He is waiting with arms open to receive us all. Remember, He desires the salvation of all (1 Timothy 2:4). We certainly can open ourselves up to sin and follow the temptation of the Enemy. Spirits are certainly real. However, while we can open ourselves up to evil, Satan cannot "own" our souls.

A side note - the Goodfight Ministries videos seem to make many judgments about others and the reasons behind their choices. It seems to focus so much on the negative things others are doing at the exclusion of learning how to grow closer to God ourselves (Philippians 4:8).

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You don't agree with the claim 1999 is about refusing to repent in the end times?

Superhero Sam said:

You don't agree with the claim 1999 is about refusing to repent in the end times?

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I'm not a place where I can watch videos. Could you summarize?

All4Christ said:

I'm not a place where I can watch videos. Could you summarize?

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Not allowed to watch videos?

They said the lyrics of 1999 are about refusing to repent in the end times. Do you think that makes sense?

Superhero Sam said:

Not allowed to watch videos?

They said the lyrics of 1999 are about refusing to repent in the end times. Do you think that makes sense?

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I'm on a road trip - so I can't watch videos without distracting my husband. I am not familiar with the song 1999, so I will need to look it up.

Found the lyrics. The songwriter could be referencing what he thinks about the end times, but why focus on evaluating and interpreting that song? Why not focus on things that are good that draw us closer to God instead?

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All4Christ said:

Found the lyrics. The songwriter could be referencing what he thinks about the end times, but why focus on evaluating and interpreting that song? Why not focus on things that are good that draw us closer to God instead?

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So it is irrelevant either way if what they say about secular music is true?

Superhero Sam said:

So it is irrelevant either way if what they say about secular music is true?

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If I was planning to listen to that music, I would pay attention to lyrics and stop listening if it wasn't spiritually healthy. If my kids were listening, I'd look up the lyrics. That said, why pay attention to it if I am not planning to listen to it? Also, why should we try to find deeper meanings in songs? Most of us can tell if a song's lyrics isn't beneficial without watching movies about what not to listen.

EarthlyHope said:

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

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It's an inherently difficult question to answer. You're basically asking for the entire book on Christianity really- a top down theology to the whole matter.

As a predestinarian, however, I can tell you that yes- God did intend for some to reap damnation. The damned are prosecutors in life and yet a justice to the righteous in their fate.

The simple fact is that God is a loving God, but He doesn't mess around either- an unrighteous man will face true wrath, it's stated plainly in scripture.

~Anastasia~ said:

I'm talking about aspects of the faith, not specifically the Bible. But in some cases, that means the Bible, yes.



Christian mysticism is something different. It has to do with experiencing God more directly, often in such ways as being silent before God in prayer. It has nothing to do with whether Christianity is mysterious, or not.

Many things are clearly spelled out, and we know them. Other things are not described in complete detail, and in that sense are unknown to us. Those things that have to do with the very Essence of God are necessarily a mystery that we can never penetrate, being creatures, for example.

Sometimes humans, in our desire to explain things, categorize, etc. are tempted to speculate beyond what we know. When we start dogmatizing our speculation, however, we can get into trouble.

I am giving you a more ancient, Eastern perspective, which was always more accepting of mystery, compared to a more modern, western mindset, which has more of a tendency to try to penetrate some of the mysteries of God.

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Like do you think some Bible verses have deeper meanings we don't know? I know of one Christian who thinks Zechariah 11 17 refers to more than apostate leaders.

Superhero Sam said:

Like do you think some Bible verses have deeper meanings we don't know? I know of one Christian who thinks Zechariah 11 17 refers to more than apostate leaders.

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Remember that the prophets were talking about national leaders. Some certainly went after false gods, but in many cases the offenses were political and failures to defend widows and orphans.

This passage can be applied to false leaders more generally, of course. It's not so much that they have a deeper meaning. Rather both Jewish and NT writers tended to apply OT passages to current events. E.g. John the Baptist was referred to as Elijah, and some passages referring to Elijah were applied to him. I don't think anyone believed that he was actually a reincarnation of Elijah. Matthew's use of Is 7:14 is a classic example. In the original context it referred to a woman at the time of Isaiah. But it was applied to Jesus' birth just as Elijah was applied J Bapt. For Jews, the OT supplied sort of a pattern for the way in which God worked.

In that way, Zech 11:17 is applied to wicked leaders of all kinds. That's a perfectly legitimate way to use Scripture. But I wouldn't call it a deeper meaning, exactly.

hedrick said:

Remember that the prophets were talking about national leaders. Some certainly went after false gods, but in many cases the offenses were political and failures to defend widows and orphans.

This passage can be applied to false leaders more generally, of course. It's not so much that they have a deeper meaning. Rather both Jewish and NT writers tended to apply OT passages to current events. E.g. John the Baptist was referred to as Elijah, and some passages referring to Elijah were applied to him. I don't think anyone believed that he was actually a reincarnation of Elijah. Matthew's use of Is 7:14 is a classic example. In the original context it referred to a woman at the time of Isaiah. But it was applied to Jesus' birth just as Elijah was applied J Bapt. For Jews, the OT supplied sort of a pattern for the way in which God worked.

In that way, Zech 11:17 is applied to wicked leaders of all kinds. That's a perfectly legitimate way to use Scripture. But I wouldn't call it a deeper meaning, exactly.

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There is an opinion it refers to the antichrist.

Superhero Sam said:

There is an opinion it refers to the antichrist.

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I don't think there's any plausible way to make that the original historical reference. It was spoken to Israel at the time. Some prophets certainly had visions of the future, but this isn't described as anything future. It's safest to interpret it in line with the rest of the book, e.g. Zech 9. Indeed 11:3 suggests that Zech had specific people in mind, but at this point it's impossible to identify them. (One commentary says there are at least 40 different conjectures about their identity.)

Of course you could apply it to any false leader, which would include the anti-Christ. But the vision of the anti-Christ in the Rev. involves elements not present here, such as the false claim of divinity. Since the Rev seems in many ways to be directed against Rome, that claim is probably a reference to the cult of the Emperor. The Revelation is highly critical of Christians who compromise, to the extent even of condemning Paul's willingness to eat meant that has been sacrificed. Likely when it says that even Christians worship the anti-Christ, it's referring to the fact that some Christians were willing to sacrifice to the Emperor. There's no suggestion here of that kind of thing.

EarthlyHope said:

When did Heaven and Hell come into existence?

Was it God's will for humans to enter heaven or to stay on a paradise earth?

Does the devil "manage" Hell? If so, does that mean God is using the devil to punish sinful people?

If Adam and Eve said no to the snake and never ate the forbidden fruit, would there be a heaven for humans to enter?

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Heaven came into existance when God said let there light. Hell probably came into existance after the fall of man or when Satan revolted in heaven.

If adam and eve would of refused the forbidden fruit the two of them would of stayed in the garden in pure innocence and they never would of had a family. and there would be no reality.

life is dream. hell is a nightmare. and the world is a hallucination/illusion