To judge or not to judge?

Cecilia Maria · Jul 2, 2017

1 Corinthians 6:1-5 (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

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Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

S.O.J.I.A. · Jul 2, 2017

judge....righteously

Cecilia Maria said:
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

RDKirk · Jul 2, 2017

Getting ready for church, so can't spend more time, but also needing to be considered at the same time:

Matthew 18:15-17

Romans 14

Foxfyre · Jul 2, 2017

Cecilia Maria said:
1 Corinthians 6:1-5 (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

IMO, the Bible is crystal clear that we should judge the wrong actions of another--actions that harm others and/or God's perfect Creation--and we should correct those when we can. And when it is another Christian, the Bible shows us how to best do that.

But I cannot find one syllable of the Bible that tells us that we are to dictate to fellow Christians how they must pray, how they are to worship, etc. And we are not to judge the content of another's heart or his/her relationship with the living God.

And I do believe there will be consequences for the haters--those who hate people different from themselves or people of certain sociopolitical/economic classes or who hate personalities, including the President of the United States.

How much we must grieve the Spirit when we presume our own righteousness or 'rightness' to be superior to that of another?

5thKingdom · Jul 2, 2017

Cecilia Maria said:
1 Corinthians 6:1-5 (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Your first mistake is not understanding the CONTEXT of the passages you cited.
In both cases it is talking about people within the church... people called "brothers".

The Bible is clear that the world consists of three (3) groups of people
(a) saved "wheat" in the Kingdom and
(b) unsaved "tares" in the Kingdom and
(c) all the lost souls OUTSIDE the Kingdom
such as Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, Pagans, etc.

Before you can understand the MEANING of a passage you must first understand
the CONTEXT of that passage.... is it talking about (a) or (b) or (c).

Your second mistake is not comparing ALL RELATED SCRIPTURES.
Biblical truth was NEVER found by comparing a few select verses....
Biblical truth is ALWAYS (and only) found by comparing ALL RELATED passages.

And other passages COMMAND the "wheat" to (a) identify who are the "tares"
and who are those OUTSIDE the Kingdom and (b) refute their false doctrines and
tell them to repent and (c) separate from all those refusing to repent.

If you want to find the Biblical Truth about this subject (or any subject)
you need to collect ALL RELATED VERSES and then harmonize them all
so there is no contradiction.

.

5thKingdom · Jul 2, 2017

Foxfyre said:
IMO, the Bible is crystal clear that we should judge the wrong actions of another--actions that harm others and/or God's perfect Creation--and we should correct those when we can. And when it is another Christian, the Bible shows us how to best do that.

But I cannot find one syllable of the Bible that tells us that we are to dictate to fellow Christians how they must pray, how they are to worship, etc. And we are not to judge the content of another's heart or his/her relationship with the living God.

And I do believe there will be consequences for the haters--those who hate people different from themselves or people of certain sociopolitical/economic classes or who hate personalities, including the President of the United States.

How much we must grieve the Spirit when we presume our own righteousness or 'rightness' to be superior to that of another?

So you are saying that you are not aware of any SCRIPTURES that command us to:
(a) identify the "tares" by their "fruits" (which include both actions and doctrines) and
(b) refute the false doctrines ("leaven") of those "tares" and
(c) to separate from those refusing to repent

None of that sounds familiar to you?
How about this:

Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence,
shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

..

Foxfyre · Jul 3, 2017

5thKingdom said:
So you are saying that you are not aware of any SCRIPTURES that command us to:
(a) identify the "tares" by their "fruits" (which include both actions and doctrines) and
(b) refute the false doctrines ("leaven") of those "tares" and
(c) to separate from those refusing to repent

None of that sounds familiar to you?
How about this:

Mar 6:11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence,
shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you,
It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Mar 6:12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.

..

No. For the third time now I am staying that this thread is not the proper venue for discussing non Christians or 'tares'.

5thKingdom · Jul 3, 2017

Foxfyre said:
No. For the third time now I am staying that this thread is not the proper venue for discussing non Christians or 'tares'.

For the third time.... it is the BIBLE (not me) that says [Mat 13]
that the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven" consists of both "wheat and tares".

The people OUTSIDE of the Christian "Kingdom of Heaven"....
Jews, Moslems, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, Humanists, pagans, etc
are NEVER (never ever) called "tares".

You can pretend the Christian Kingdom consists of only saved "wheat"
but that is just you pretending. No serious Bible student teaches that EVERYONE
in the church is a saved "wheat".... that is not only nonsensical and obviously wrong,
it directly CONTRADICTS what the Bible teaches.

BTW... it does not matter whether you AGREE with this Biblical Truth or not.

.

Soyeong · Jul 3, 2017

Cecilia Maria said:
1 Corinthians 6:1-5 (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

There are many verses to instruct us to judge righteously, and quite frankly the idea that we can go through life without making judgements is absurd. Even judging whether or not someone is judging is judging them. The issue in Matthew 7 is not that we aren't to judge at all, but that we are to judge righteously because the same standard that we use to judge others will be used to judge us.

Let's go · Jul 4, 2017

He told us not to judge because he knows the hatered in our hearts for one another and our desire for vengeance when we are accused . He knows us even before we are placed in a trial.

Shempster · Jul 8, 2017

Judging a case must involve considering motives and intentions.
Since we can't read other peoples minds, we should not judge anything they say or do unless we investigate the inner motives and intentions. If we don't ask them deep and specific questions then we will be guessing and we will probably get it wrong.
I mean, think of anything bad you have ever done. Was there a reason? A motive not visible on the surface? There normally is. Sometimes someone just has a moment where they made a very rash decision and jumped into something without scrutiny.

Ahermit · Jul 8, 2017

Judge oneself first to truly know yourself, warts and all, and come to accept your truth.
Then how can you judge another without identifying yourself?
Judgement becomes moot and forgiveness takes its place.

RDKirk · Jul 8, 2017

OTOH, there is still the problem of people doing things in the Body that are harmful to members of the Body and the Body itself. Jesus does not shy from that.

Foxfyre · Jul 8, 2017

Soyeong said:
There are many verses to instruct us to judge righteously, and quite frankly the idea that we can go through life without making judgements is absurd. Even judging whether or not someone is judging is judging them. The issue in Matthew 7 is not that we aren't to judge at all, but that we are to judge righteously because the same standard that we use to judge others will be used to judge us.

View attachment 200499

And after reading all that is recorded re judgment in the Bible, I can't lay my finger on any passage that grants us authority to judge what is in another's heart. That prerogative is for God alone. We are to judge what harm we see others do to themselves and/or others and hold people accountable for that.

So yes. We should stand up and be counted and call out and, when warranted, intervene when people do material and/or physical harm to themselves and/or other people. But we are not privileged to judge or hold in contempt others for no other reason than they do not think, believe, or interpret scriptures, faith, etc. differently than we do.

Soyeong · Jul 9, 2017

Foxfyre said:
And after reading all that is recorded re judgment in the Bible, I can't lay my finger on any passage that grants us authority to judge what is in another's heart. That prerogative is for God alone. We are to judge what harm we see others do to themselves and/or others and hold people accountable for that.

So yes. We should stand up and be counted and call out and, when warranted, intervene when people do material and/or physical harm to themselves and/or other people. But we are not privileged to judge or hold in contempt others for no other reason than they do not think, believe, or interpret scriptures, faith, etc. differently than we do.

John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Leviticus 19:15 You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.

Ezekiel 33:8 If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Matthew 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Proverbs 31:9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

We can't follow any of these verses without judging, so we are actually supposed to judge others, but we must judge righteously, and not by outward appearances. Only God can judge whether someone is going to heaven or hell, but we are to make judgements to expose sin.

Foxfyre · Jul 10, 2017

Soyeong said:
John 7:24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

Leviticus 19:15 You shall do no injustice in court. You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.

Ezekiel 33:8 If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.

Ephesians 5:11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.

Matthew 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

Proverbs 31:9 Open your mouth, judge righteously, defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Galatians 6:1 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

We can't follow any of these verses without judging, so we are actually supposed to judge others, but we must judge righteously, and not by outward appearances. Only God can judge whether someone is going to heaven or hell, but we are to make judgements to expose sin.

And, as the point I intended to make, not a single one of those verses suggests we have the duty or prerogative to judge what is in another's heart. We are to judge what people do that harm themselves and/or others and not judge them by whether they worship or interpret scriptures or believe as we think they should.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2017

Foxfyre said:
No. For the third time now I am staying that this thread is not the proper venue for discussing non Christians or 'tares'.

This site / forum/ chat is not the proper venue .......
(for the fourth time?) ......

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 10, 2017

QUOTE="Soyeong, ...]There are many verses to instruct us to judge righteously, and quite frankly the idea that we can go through life without making judgements is absurd. Even judging whether or not someone is judging is judging them. The issue in Matthew 7 is not that we aren't to judge at all, but that we are to judge righteously because the same standard that we use to judge others will be used to judge us.

View attachment 200499..
..QUOTE
Amein.

Jason_apostle · Sep 7, 2017

the way you judge is how God will judge you, so always judge righteously.

Matthew 7
Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

if you never judge anyone than God will not judge you

dreadnought · Sep 15, 2017

Cecilia Maria said:
1 Corinthians 6:1-5 (KJV)

6 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Matthew 7:1-5 (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Only judge when necessary.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

To judge or not to judge?

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