"LOVE" in the Bible: What is it?

Ron Gurley

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"LOVE" in the Bible: What is it?

LOVE / loving is the most desirable quality and character trait that we believers can possess.
It is assessed as being greater than faith, and greater than hope in the Bible. Let's Look!

To Love (agape') is NOT optional..."LOVE" are COMMANDMENTS!
To be spiritually UN-loving is SIN.
Unregenerated Man is incapable of spiritual "agape'"... a "love" by Man acceptable to God.
Goats cannot be "loving" nor acceptable to God. Only sheep can.
Man on his own can only: "philos" (brotherly man-to-man) and/or "eros" (erotic man-to-man)...be nice-nice.

The TRI-UNE God unconditionally LOVES (agape') us sinners...enough to save us through the "substitutional atonement" of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Divine Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man.The God-Man.

God unconditionally loves sinners both before and after their salvation.

How do believers return to God that LOVE (agape')???...OBEY! TRUST! FOLLOW! etc through God the Holy Spirit.
No where does Jesus say or imply that Man can use their non-spiritual "love" of UN-believers to be saved. It is spiritually impossible for an UN-believer to "love" unto "eternal life".

The Bible clearly and directly teaches that: BOTH
A. spirit-led BELIEF/FAITH unto salvation
...THEN...
B. FOLLOWING after salvation (~SANCTIFICATION=BEING SET ASIDE FOR GOD)
>>are required.<<
John 3 + Ephesians 2 + Matthew 16: 24-27 (ALL CITES ARE NASB)

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love "ONE ANOTHER""...mutual and reciprocal love.
John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 2:3-6 (NASB)

Spiritual "Brotherly love" comes from God,...NOT from the heart of unregenerated/unsaved Man.

1 John 4:7, 11 [ God Is Love ]
Beloved, (believers)
let us love "ONE ANOTHER",
for (spiritual) love is FROM God;
and everyone who loves (ONE ANOTHER),
is born of God (saved)
and knows God....
Beloved, (believers) if God so loved (agape) us,
we also ought to love "ONE ANOTHER"....

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint,
because the "love of God" has been poured out within our hearts
THROUGH (God) the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of (God) the (Holy) Spirit is love...

1 Peter 4:8
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

The "BIG TWO" is the underlying basis of Moses' "BIG 10" and many other "LAWS".

Luke 10...Jesus answers the unbelieving lawyer's questions...
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying,
"Teacher, what shall I (the lawyer) DO to inherit eternal life?"
26 And He (Jesus) said to him, (an answer with a question!)
"What is written in the Law? (The Law of Moses!) How does IT read to you?"
27And he (the lawyer) answered,

(BIG ONE:)
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD
WITH ALL YOUR HEART (spirit), AND
WITH ALL YOUR SOUL (personality), AND
WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, (body)
AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; (emotions+reason+decision)....AND

(BIG TWO:)
(YOU SHALL LOVE) YOUR NEIGHBOR AS (just like) YOURSELF."

28 And He (Jesus) said to him (the lawyer),
"You have answered correctly;
(YOU) DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."
29 But wishing to justify himself, he (the lawyer) said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

ANSWER: Read: The "Good Samaritan" Story which answers by story and illustration.
...The one who showed MERCY/Love to a stranger!...

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love each other": John 13:34-35; John 15
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another,
even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another.”
...apart from me you can do nothing....
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love,
just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.
12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

1 John 2: 3-6 (NASB)
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him (Jesus), if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the LOVE of God has truly been perfected (made mature). By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he ABIDES in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Paul points out that the "LOVE" commandments are the summation of all commandments, See: Romans 13:9-10....
“9 The commandments...,
“Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”
and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule:
“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

And see similar: Galatians 5...Walking by the Spirit
..do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh,
but through LOVE, SERVE one another.
14 For the whole (Mosaic) Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement,
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

And See: Ephesians 4:2
...with all humility and gentleness , with patience, showing tolerance for one another
...in love...

"The Power of Love"

The Bible tells us that a real power of love among believers is that it never fails!
And it never fails because it is not self-seeking for its own personal advantage.
Real love seeks to serve others, rather than to be served by others.
True Love unconditionally gives and commits self without any expectation of return

1 Corinthians 13:4-8...How Man should LOVE Man
“4 Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.”

Love never fails because it always perseveres!
Love never fails because it is patient and kind.
Love never fails because it keeps no record of wrongs against others that have let us down.
Instead, love moves on and overcomes the need for bitterness and revenge!
Love always protects, always trusts and always hopes.

Real love is indeed a powerful force to be reckoned with.
Love can change our personal world, profoundly,
if we will observe and honor its precepts with devotion.
It can motivate us to live together in harmony and holiness.

1 Peter 4:8...
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "one another" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10: 12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Cor. 13...SUMMARIZED / ORGANIZED

LOVE is .....

P A T I E N T
K I N D
N o t J E A L O U S
N o t B O A S T I N G
N o t A R R O G A N T
N o t I N D E C E N T
N o t S E L F I S H or I N C O N S I D E R A T E
N o t E A S I L Y P R O V O K E D to A N G E R
F O R G I V I N G... it keeps no record of wrongs
R E J O I C E S in the T R U T H, not evil...AND it
B E A R S ....
B E L I E V E S ....
H O P E S....
E N D U R E S....A L L T H I N G S

LOVE never Fails!

QUESTIONS:
1. Is "love" just an EMOTION of the SOUL?
2. What are the 3 Greek words for "love"?
3. What are Jesus' "BIG IF's" concerning "love".
4. Define "love" that should exist among husband and wife and family?
5. Explain: "God is love!"
6. I love God. I love puppies and ice cream. What is the difference?
7. all other questions and comments with citations to Scripture PLEASE!
 

bling

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"LOVE" in the Bible: What is it?

LOVE / loving is the most desirable quality and character trait that we believers can possess.
It is assessed as being greater than faith, and greater than hope in the Bible. Let's Look!

To Love (agape') is NOT optional..."LOVE" are COMMANDMENTS!
To be spiritually UN-loving is SIN.
Unregenerated Man is incapable of spiritual "agape'"... a "love" by Man acceptable to God.
Goats cannot be "loving" nor acceptable to God. Only sheep can.
Man on his own can only: "philos" (brotherly man-to-man) and/or "eros" (erotic man-to-man)...be nice-nice.

The TRI-UNE God unconditionally LOVES (agape') us sinners...enough to save us through the "substitutional atonement" of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Divine Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man.The God-Man.

God unconditionally loves sinners both before and after their salvation.

How do believers return to God that LOVE (agape')???...OBEY! TRUST! FOLLOW! etc through God the Holy Spirit.
No where does Jesus say or imply that Man can use their non-spiritual "love" of UN-believers to be saved. It is spiritually impossible for an UN-believer to "love" unto "eternal life".

The Bible clearly and directly teaches that: BOTH
A. spirit-led BELIEF/FAITH unto salvation
...THEN...
B. FOLLOWING after salvation (~SANCTIFICATION=BEING SET ASIDE FOR GOD)
>>are required.<<
John 3 + Ephesians 2 + Matthew 16: 24-27 (ALL CITES ARE NASB)

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love "ONE ANOTHER""...mutual and reciprocal love.
John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 2:3-6 (NASB)

Spiritual "Brotherly love" comes from God,...NOT from the heart of unregenerated/unsaved Man.

1 John 4:7, 11 [ God Is Love ]
Beloved, (believers)
let us love "ONE ANOTHER",
for (spiritual) love is FROM God;
and everyone who loves (ONE ANOTHER),
is born of God (saved)
and knows God....
Beloved, (believers) if God so loved (agape) us,
we also ought to love "ONE ANOTHER"....

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint,
because the "love of God" has been poured out within our hearts
THROUGH (God) the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of (God) the (Holy) Spirit is love...

1 Peter 4:8
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

The "BIG TWO" is the underlying basis of Moses' "BIG 10" and many other "LAWS".

Luke 10...Jesus answers the unbelieving lawyer's questions...
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying,
"Teacher, what shall I (the lawyer) DO to inherit eternal life?"
26 And He (Jesus) said to him, (an answer with a question!)
"What is written in the Law? (The Law of Moses!) How does IT read to you?"
27And he (the lawyer) answered,

(BIG ONE:)
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD
WITH ALL YOUR HEART (spirit), AND
WITH ALL YOUR SOUL (personality), AND
WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, (body)
AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; (emotions+reason+decision)....AND

(BIG TWO:)
(YOU SHALL LOVE) YOUR NEIGHBOR AS (just like) YOURSELF."

28 And He (Jesus) said to him (the lawyer),
"You have answered correctly;
(YOU) DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."
29 But wishing to justify himself, he (the lawyer) said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

ANSWER: Read: The "Good Samaritan" Story which answers by story and illustration.
...The one who showed MERCY/Love to a stranger!...

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love each other": John 13:34-35; John 15
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another,
even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another.”
...apart from me you can do nothing....
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love,
just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.
12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

1 John 2: 3-6 (NASB)
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him (Jesus), if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the LOVE of God has truly been perfected (made mature). By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he ABIDES in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Paul points out that the "LOVE" commandments are the summation of all commandments, See: Romans 13:9-10....
“9 The commandments...,
“Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”
and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule:
“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

And see similar: Galatians 5...Walking by the Spirit
..do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh,
but through LOVE, SERVE one another.
14 For the whole (Mosaic) Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement,
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

And See: Ephesians 4:2
...with all humility and gentleness , with patience, showing tolerance for one another
...in love...

"The Power of Love"

The Bible tells us that a real power of love among believers is that it never fails!
And it never fails because it is not self-seeking for its own personal advantage.
Real love seeks to serve others, rather than to be served by others.
True Love unconditionally gives and commits self without any expectation of return

1 Corinthians 13:4-8...How Man should LOVE Man
“4 Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.”

Love never fails because it always perseveres!
Love never fails because it is patient and kind.
Love never fails because it keeps no record of wrongs against others that have let us down.
Instead, love moves on and overcomes the need for bitterness and revenge!
Love always protects, always trusts and always hopes.

Real love is indeed a powerful force to be reckoned with.
Love can change our personal world, profoundly,
if we will observe and honor its precepts with devotion.
It can motivate us to live together in harmony and holiness.

1 Peter 4:8...
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "one another" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10: 12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Cor. 13...SUMMARIZED / ORGANIZED

LOVE is .....

P A T I E N T
K I N D
N o t J E A L O U S
N o t B O A S T I N G
N o t A R R O G A N T
N o t I N D E C E N T
N o t S E L F I S H or I N C O N S I D E R A T E
N o t E A S I L Y P R O V O K E D to A N G E R
F O R G I V I N G... it keeps no record of wrongs
R E J O I C E S in the T R U T H, not evil...AND it
B E A R S ....
B E L I E V E S ....
H O P E S....
E N D U R E S....A L L T H I N G S

LOVE never Fails!

QUESTIONS:
1. Is "love" just an EMOTION of the SOUL?
2. What are the 3 Greek words for "love"?
3. What are Jesus' "BIG IF's" concerning "love".
4. Define "love" that should exist among husband and wife and family?
5. Explain: "God is love!"
6. I love God. I love puppies and ice cream. What is the difference?
7. all other questions and comments with citations to Scripture PLEASE!
Is Love instinctive (robotic)?
Can God force us to Love him by saying: "Love me in heaven or go to hell"?
What it the one way for humans to first obtain this Love/
 
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SkyWriting

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6. I love God. I love puppies and ice cream. What is the difference?

And my wife is hot. There is number number 4 love.
I don't have food or ice cream with my wife.
It's hotter.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Ephesians 5:28,33 (NASB)
So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;...
Nevertheless, each individual among you also is to love his own wife even as himself,
and the wife must see to it that she respects her husband.

to love...Greek 25...agapaō...
I.of persons
A.to welcome, to entertain, to be fond of, to love dearly
II.of things
A.to be well pleased, to be contented at or with a thing
 
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I think first it means to look at every person as equal in value. And that value is that of a dignitary or a favorite elder. Complete respect for the other persons space, thoughts and belongings. Never holding back blessings due to racial differences. Never "cursing" another by writing them off as unclean.
 
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"LOVE" in the Bible: What is it?

LOVE / loving is the most desirable quality and character trait that we believers can possess.
It is assessed as being greater than faith, and greater than hope in the Bible. Let's Look!

To Love (agape') is NOT optional..."LOVE" are COMMANDMENTS!
To be spiritually UN-loving is SIN.
Unregenerated Man is incapable of spiritual "agape'"... a "love" by Man acceptable to God.
Goats cannot be "loving" nor acceptable to God. Only sheep can.
Man on his own can only: "philos" (brotherly man-to-man) and/or "eros" (erotic man-to-man)...be nice-nice.

The TRI-UNE God unconditionally LOVES (agape') us sinners...enough to save us through the "substitutional atonement" of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Divine Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man.The God-Man.

God unconditionally loves sinners both before and after their salvation.

How do believers return to God that LOVE (agape')???...OBEY! TRUST! FOLLOW! etc through God the Holy Spirit.
No where does Jesus say or imply that Man can use their non-spiritual "love" of UN-believers to be saved. It is spiritually impossible for an UN-believer to "love" unto "eternal life".

The Bible clearly and directly teaches that: BOTH
A. spirit-led BELIEF/FAITH unto salvation
...THEN...
B. FOLLOWING after salvation (~SANCTIFICATION=BEING SET ASIDE FOR GOD)
>>are required.<<
John 3 + Ephesians 2 + Matthew 16: 24-27 (ALL CITES ARE NASB)

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love "ONE ANOTHER""...mutual and reciprocal love.
John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 2:3-6 (NASB)

Spiritual "Brotherly love" comes from God,...NOT from the heart of unregenerated/unsaved Man.

1 John 4:7, 11 [ God Is Love ]
Beloved, (believers)
let us love "ONE ANOTHER",
for (spiritual) love is FROM God;
and everyone who loves (ONE ANOTHER),
is born of God (saved)
and knows God....
Beloved, (believers) if God so loved (agape) us,
we also ought to love "ONE ANOTHER"....

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint,
because the "love of God" has been poured out within our hearts
THROUGH (God) the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of (God) the (Holy) Spirit is love...

1 Peter 4:8
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

The "BIG TWO" is the underlying basis of Moses' "BIG 10" and many other "LAWS".

Luke 10...Jesus answers the unbelieving lawyer's questions...
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying,
"Teacher, what shall I (the lawyer) DO to inherit eternal life?"
26 And He (Jesus) said to him, (an answer with a question!)
"What is written in the Law? (The Law of Moses!) How does IT read to you?"
27And he (the lawyer) answered,

(BIG ONE:)
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD
WITH ALL YOUR HEART (spirit), AND
WITH ALL YOUR SOUL (personality), AND
WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, (body)
AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; (emotions+reason+decision)....AND

(BIG TWO:)
(YOU SHALL LOVE) YOUR NEIGHBOR AS (just like) YOURSELF."

28 And He (Jesus) said to him (the lawyer),
"You have answered correctly;
(YOU) DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."
29 But wishing to justify himself, he (the lawyer) said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

ANSWER: Read: The "Good Samaritan" Story which answers by story and illustration.
...The one who showed MERCY/Love to a stranger!...

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love each other": John 13:34-35; John 15
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another,
even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another.”
...apart from me you can do nothing....
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love,
just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.
12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

1 John 2: 3-6 (NASB)
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him (Jesus), if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the LOVE of God has truly been perfected (made mature). By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he ABIDES in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Paul points out that the "LOVE" commandments are the summation of all commandments, See: Romans 13:9-10....
“9 The commandments...,
“Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”
and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule:
“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

And see similar: Galatians 5...Walking by the Spirit
..do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh,
but through LOVE, SERVE one another.
14 For the whole (Mosaic) Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement,
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

And See: Ephesians 4:2
...with all humility and gentleness , with patience, showing tolerance for one another
...in love...

"The Power of Love"

The Bible tells us that a real power of love among believers is that it never fails!
And it never fails because it is not self-seeking for its own personal advantage.
Real love seeks to serve others, rather than to be served by others.
True Love unconditionally gives and commits self without any expectation of return

1 Corinthians 13:4-8...How Man should LOVE Man
“4 Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.”

Love never fails because it always perseveres!
Love never fails because it is patient and kind.
Love never fails because it keeps no record of wrongs against others that have let us down.
Instead, love moves on and overcomes the need for bitterness and revenge!
Love always protects, always trusts and always hopes.

Real love is indeed a powerful force to be reckoned with.
Love can change our personal world, profoundly,
if we will observe and honor its precepts with devotion.
It can motivate us to live together in harmony and holiness.

1 Peter 4:8...
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "one another" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10: 12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Cor. 13...SUMMARIZED / ORGANIZED

LOVE is .....

P A T I E N T
K I N D
N o t J E A L O U S
N o t B O A S T I N G
N o t A R R O G A N T
N o t I N D E C E N T
N o t S E L F I S H or I N C O N S I D E R A T E
N o t E A S I L Y P R O V O K E D to A N G E R
F O R G I V I N G... it keeps no record of wrongs
R E J O I C E S in the T R U T H, not evil...AND it
B E A R S ....
B E L I E V E S ....
H O P E S....
E N D U R E S....A L L T H I N G S

LOVE never Fails!

QUESTIONS:
1. Is "love" just an EMOTION of the SOUL?
2. What are the 3 Greek words for "love"?
3. What are Jesus' "BIG IF's" concerning "love".
4. Define "love" that should exist among husband and wife and family?
5. Explain: "God is love!"
6. I love God. I love puppies and ice cream. What is the difference?
7. all other questions and comments with citations to Scripture PLEASE!

In this scripture:

Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Why did God hate robbery for burnt offering? Did the Jews think that they could just kill and sacrifice these animals to please God. Likewise, did God require the death of His son to love and change the way He felt about mankind? Sin just continues and feeds on itself and impacts the love of God in mankind.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

God has looked the other way for now, but I believe He will fulfill His love for justice soon.
For people to get right with God, it will take more than someone dying in their stead.
 
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Ron Gurley

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"TOUGH LOVE" for CHILDREN

Ephesians 6:4
Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Psalm 127 (NASB)
3
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord,
The fruit of the womb is a reward.
4
Like arrows in the hand of a warrior,
So are the children of one’s youth.
5
How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them;
They will not be ashamed
When they speak with their enemies in the gate.

Proverbs 22
Train up a child in the way he should go,(his "bent")
Even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child;

Proverbs 23:13
Do not hold back discipline from the child,
Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Proverbs 29:15
The rod and reproof give wisdom,
But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.
 
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Ron Gurley

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Psalm 34:11
Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the Lord

you the fear...Hebrew 3374...yir'ah...C.fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety, D.revered
 
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bling

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Does God love mankind more than justice, and why would a just God kill the innocent in the stead of the guilty?

Is death in and of itself bad?


Is death the way the innocent get to go home and the way the bad quit doing bad stuff?

God’s Love for humans is totally unselfish and yet God can be completely just and still be totally unselfish.

The injustice you talk about is like what we find with the rich man and Lazarus, where God placed innocent Lazarus in a tough situation to provide the rich man (who God also Loved) with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type Love, the rich man tripped over it every day. God made up for putting Lazarus through all this by having Him go to Abraham in heaven
 
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bling

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I think first it means to look at every person as equal in value. And that value is that of a dignitary or a favorite elder. Complete respect for the other persons space, thoughts and belongings. Never holding back blessings due to racial differences. Never "cursing" another by writing them off as unclean.
How about sacrificially, unselfishly and unconditionally Loving someone?
 
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bling

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In this scripture:

Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

Why did God hate robbery for burnt offering? Did the Jews think that they could just kill and sacrifice these animals to please God. Likewise, did God require the death of His son to love and change the way He felt about mankind? Sin just continues and feeds on itself and impacts the love of God in mankind.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

God has looked the other way for now, but I believe He will fulfill His love for justice soon.
For people to get right with God, it will take more than someone dying in their stead.
"...it will take more than someone dying in their stead", Jesus did not die in our stead, so what is needed?
 
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Hethatreadethit

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In the world of religion, I seldom hear anybody say that.
So what is needed? That is the million dollar question. What is the purpose of God in Christ? Was it finding an excuse to brush the sins of the world under the carpet and pretend everything is OK? I believe Christ came not to hide our sins but to turn the hearts of men from sin to doing the will of God. A child who is always given things does not learn to appreciate the love that it took to have the substance they so easily claim to have. Their substance is just a fantasy, and reality couldn't be further away.

The gospel, was the manifestation of God's will brought to the light by the execution of judgment by the Christ. The light of God revealed the way of truth and peace to bring those who are called to the mind of Christ.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Having the same mind, then how could there be any confusion?

According to Revelation, the truth of the gospel will go out for an hour in the end:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

With the execution of judgment (light) everything will be cleared up.

Psa 43:3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
Psa 43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.

With light, the manifestation of the sacrifice of praise will be revealed, and the true work of God manifest.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

When Christ returns, it will be as morning with the light intensity so over powering for humans, that it will consume those things He does not want.

Zep 3:5 The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

We should hope to be as the men in Daniel

Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Dan 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Think you for the question!
 
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Hethatreadethit

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Is death in and of itself bad?


Is death the way the innocent get to go home and the way the bad quit doing bad stuff?

God’s Love for humans is totally unselfish and yet God can be completely just and still be totally unselfish.

The injustice you talk about is like what we find with the rich man and Lazarus, where God placed innocent Lazarus in a tough situation to provide the rich man (who God also Loved) with the very best opportunity to experience Godly type Love, the rich man tripped over it every day. God made up for putting Lazarus through all this by having Him go to Abraham in heaven

Death is not an obstacle for the righteous, but God does not reward good with bad. I believe there was a time that God nearly wiped out all of mankind because of evil works. Only righteous Noah and His family were delivered. The struggles of the righteous are God's way of testing the faithful and for that purpose the wicked come forth as the wood on the altar.
 
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Hethatreadethit

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Psalm 34:11
Come, you children, listen to me; I will teach you the fear of the Lord

you the fear...Hebrew 3374...yir'ah...C.fear (of God), respect, reverence, piety, D.revered

Raising children is like a return to the old testament: Do this, Don't do that! WHY? Because I said so!

The Jews of the old testament were children of a strange Father from another world, and they were told to be different from the rest of the world. Hard to understand without faith. The patience of love is a virtue that all parents must have. Never hurts to be wise either. And also, promote the teachings of God, including the Sabbath. Everyone needs rest and spiritual renewal.
 
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"LOVE" in the Bible: What is it?

LOVE / loving is the most desirable quality and character trait that we believers can possess.
It is assessed as being greater than faith, and greater than hope in the Bible. Let's Look!

To Love (agape') is NOT optional..."LOVE" are COMMANDMENTS!
To be spiritually UN-loving is SIN.
Unregenerated Man is incapable of spiritual "agape'"... a "love" by Man acceptable to God.
Goats cannot be "loving" nor acceptable to God. Only sheep can.
Man on his own can only: "philos" (brotherly man-to-man) and/or "eros" (erotic man-to-man)...be nice-nice.

The TRI-UNE God unconditionally LOVES (agape') us sinners...enough to save us through the "substitutional atonement" of Jesus of Nazareth, The Christ, The Divine Messiah, Son of God, Son of Man.The God-Man.

God unconditionally loves sinners both before and after their salvation.

How do believers return to God that LOVE (agape')???...OBEY! TRUST! FOLLOW! etc through God the Holy Spirit.
No where does Jesus say or imply that Man can use their non-spiritual "love" of UN-believers to be saved. It is spiritually impossible for an UN-believer to "love" unto "eternal life".

The Bible clearly and directly teaches that: BOTH
A. spirit-led BELIEF/FAITH unto salvation
...THEN...
B. FOLLOWING after salvation (~SANCTIFICATION=BEING SET ASIDE FOR GOD)
>>are required.<<
John 3 + Ephesians 2 + Matthew 16: 24-27 (ALL CITES ARE NASB)

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love "ONE ANOTHER""...mutual and reciprocal love.
John 13:34-35; John 15; 1 John 2:3-6 (NASB)

Spiritual "Brotherly love" comes from God,...NOT from the heart of unregenerated/unsaved Man.

1 John 4:7, 11 [ God Is Love ]
Beloved, (believers)
let us love "ONE ANOTHER",
for (spiritual) love is FROM God;
and everyone who loves (ONE ANOTHER),
is born of God (saved)
and knows God....
Beloved, (believers) if God so loved (agape) us,
we also ought to love "ONE ANOTHER"....

Romans 5:5
and hope does not disappoint,
because the "love of God" has been poured out within our hearts
THROUGH (God) the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

Galatians 5:22
But the fruit of (God) the (Holy) Spirit is love...

1 Peter 4:8
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "ONE ANOTHER" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

The "BIG TWO" is the underlying basis of Moses' "BIG 10" and many other "LAWS".

Luke 10...Jesus answers the unbelieving lawyer's questions...
25 And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying,
"Teacher, what shall I (the lawyer) DO to inherit eternal life?"
26 And He (Jesus) said to him, (an answer with a question!)
"What is written in the Law? (The Law of Moses!) How does IT read to you?"
27And he (the lawyer) answered,

(BIG ONE:)
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD
WITH ALL YOUR HEART (spirit), AND
WITH ALL YOUR SOUL (personality), AND
WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, (body)
AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; (emotions+reason+decision)....AND

(BIG TWO:)
(YOU SHALL LOVE) YOUR NEIGHBOR AS (just like) YOURSELF."

28 And He (Jesus) said to him (the lawyer),
"You have answered correctly;
(YOU) DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE."
29 But wishing to justify himself, he (the lawyer) said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

ANSWER: Read: The "Good Samaritan" Story which answers by story and illustration.
...The one who showed MERCY/Love to a stranger!...

Jesus commanded his disciples to "love each other": John 13:34-35; John 15
34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another,
even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35 By this all men will know that you are My disciples,
if you have love for one another.”
...apart from me you can do nothing....
"As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love.
If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love,
just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in His love.
12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

1 John 2: 3-6 (NASB)
3 By this we know that we have come to know Him (Jesus), if we keep His commandments.
4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5 but whoever keeps His word, in him the LOVE of God has truly been perfected (made mature). By this we know that we are in Him:
6 the one who says he ABIDES in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

Paul points out that the "LOVE" commandments are the summation of all commandments, See: Romans 13:9-10....
“9 The commandments...,
“Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,”
and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule:
“Love your neighbor as yourself.”
10 Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.”

And see similar: Galatians 5...Walking by the Spirit
..do not turn your freedom into an opportunity for the flesh,
but through LOVE, SERVE one another.
14 For the whole (Mosaic) Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement,
“YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

And See: Ephesians 4:2
...with all humility and gentleness , with patience, showing tolerance for one another
...in love...

"The Power of Love"

The Bible tells us that a real power of love among believers is that it never fails!
And it never fails because it is not self-seeking for its own personal advantage.
Real love seeks to serve others, rather than to be served by others.
True Love unconditionally gives and commits self without any expectation of return

1 Corinthians 13:4-8...How Man should LOVE Man
“4 Love is patient, love is kind.
It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered,
it keeps no record of wrongs.
6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7 It always protects,
always trusts,
always hopes,
always perseveres.
8 Love never fails.”

Love never fails because it always perseveres!
Love never fails because it is patient and kind.
Love never fails because it keeps no record of wrongs against others that have let us down.
Instead, love moves on and overcomes the need for bitterness and revenge!
Love always protects, always trusts and always hopes.

Real love is indeed a powerful force to be reckoned with.
Love can change our personal world, profoundly,
if we will observe and honor its precepts with devotion.
It can motivate us to live together in harmony and holiness.

1 Peter 4:8...
Above all , keep fervent in your LOVE for "one another" (believers) ,
because love covers a multitude of sins.

Proverbs 10: 12
Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers over all wrongs.

1 Cor. 13...SUMMARIZED / ORGANIZED

LOVE is .....

P A T I E N T
K I N D
N o t J E A L O U S
N o t B O A S T I N G
N o t A R R O G A N T
N o t I N D E C E N T
N o t S E L F I S H or I N C O N S I D E R A T E
N o t E A S I L Y P R O V O K E D to A N G E R
F O R G I V I N G... it keeps no record of wrongs
R E J O I C E S in the T R U T H, not evil...AND it
B E A R S ....
B E L I E V E S ....
H O P E S....
E N D U R E S....A L L T H I N G S

LOVE never Fails!

QUESTIONS:
1. Is "love" just an EMOTION of the SOUL?
2. What are the 3 Greek words for "love"?
3. What are Jesus' "BIG IF's" concerning "love".
4. Define "love" that should exist among husband and wife and family?
5. Explain: "God is love!"
6. I love God. I love puppies and ice cream. What is the difference?
7. all other questions and comments with citations to Scripture PLEASE!

Given Corinthians 13 saying there what love is as you pointed out, it seems pretty clear to me that God is not love. Or if he is, we can never say "I love you" to someone and have it mean how we use it.
 
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bling

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In the world of religion, I seldom hear anybody say that.
So what is needed? That is the million dollar question. What is the purpose of God in Christ? Was it finding an excuse to brush the sins of the world under the carpet and pretend everything is OK? I believe Christ came not to hide our sins but to turn the hearts of men from sin to doing the will of God. A child who is always given things does not learn to appreciate the love that it took to have the substance they so easily claim to have. Their substance is just a fantasy, and reality couldn't be further away.

The gospel, was the manifestation of God's will brought to the light by the execution of judgment by the Christ. The light of God revealed the way of truth and peace to bring those who are called to the mind of Christ.

1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Having the same mind, then how could there be any confusion?

According to Revelation, the truth of the gospel will go out for an hour in the end:

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

With the execution of judgment (light) everything will be cleared up.

Psa 43:3 O send out thy light and thy truth: let them lead me; let them bring me unto thy holy hill, and to thy tabernacles.
Psa 43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.

With light, the manifestation of the sacrifice of praise will be revealed, and the true work of God manifest.

Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

When Christ returns, it will be as morning with the light intensity so over powering for humans, that it will consume those things He does not want.

Zep 3:5 The just LORD is in the midst thereof; he will not do iniquity: every morning doth he bring his judgment to light, he faileth not; but the unjust knoweth no shame.

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

We should hope to be as the men in Daniel

Dan 3:16 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful to answer thee in this matter.
Dan 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.

Think you for the question!

You do good to bring this question up for if the debt is paid in full there is nothing to forgive. Paul was forgiven of murdering innocent Christians, so no one has to pay that debt, but that does bring up the fact as parents we not only forgive our rebellious disobedient children, but we also see to their discipline for all the benefits of loving discipline if at all possible. Paul said he was crucified with Christ so was that fair/just disciplining for him?


The subject you are addressing is huge since books have been written on it with lots of different conclusions; mostly due to the preconceived ideas of the authors.


We can work on this together and draw our own most likely alternative interpretation that will be very biblical, consistent and logical.


To begin with:


During the time of Christ, the Jewish people in and around Jerusalem would have had a much better understanding of atonement since atonement sacrifices were going on every hour at the temple, maybe thousands each day. All mature adults would have most likely participated in the individual process of atonement, but this was only for unintentional sins (really minor sins) since intentional sins had no Old Testament system for atonement.


Those only able to afford a bag of flour (Lev. 5) certainly would not have considered that bag of flour to be a “substitute” for them. There is nothing to suggest the Jewish people ever thought of any sacrifices to be substitutes for them. So what did they experience in this atonement process for unintentional sins?

If we could relate to their atonement experience for “minor” sins we might be able to extrapolate to what the atonement process would be like for intentional sins? (Read Lev. 5)


Forgiveness for unintentional sins came after the completion of the atonement process (Lev. 5), but did God need a bag of flour to forgive the person’s sins?


Would God need anything to forgive a person’s sins or is it the person needing something to accept that forgiveness as pure charity?


Is Christ Crucified described by Paul, Peter, Jesus, John and the Hebrew writer as a ransom payment (it is not even said to be like a ransom payment, but it was a ransom payment)?


I find the ransom description more than just an analogy to be an excellent fit and I am not talking about the “Ransom Theory of Atonement”

(The “Ransom Theory of Atonement” has God paying satan the cruel torture, humiliation and murder of Christ but: Does God owe Satan anything? Is there some cosmic “law” saying you have to pay the kidnapper? Would it not be wrong for God to pay satan, if God could just as easily and safely take back His children without paying satan?)


Would a ransom as those in the first century might understand it (it was well known Caesura at 21 had been kidnapped and a ransom paid for him) included the following elements:


1. Someone other than the captive paying the ransom.

2. The payment is a huge sacrificial payment for the payer, who would personally prefer not to pay.

3. Since those that come to God must come as children, it is the children of God that go to the Father.

4. The payer cannot safely or for some other reason get his children any other way than making the payment.

5. The kidnapper is totally undeserving.

6. The kidnapper can accept or reject the payment.



Go to Luke 15: 11-32 the prodigal son story to illustrate:


Who in the middle of the night snuck in and dragged off the young son, force the son to do evil stuff and finally chained him to a pigsty starving to death? (this is not the way it happened, but the child of the father was kidnapped.)


Who returned to the father, was it the son that rebelliously wished his father’s death so he could get his inheritance or was it the child of the father?


We can only come to our Father as children, so who is keeping the nonbeliever in the unbelieving state (who is this kidnapper)?


There is the one ransom, but could there be many kidnappers and many children?


Who are the kidnappers?


Looking at verses in particular:


(NIV) Ro. 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—


“God presented” this might be better expressed as “God is offering” since it will later be received, received or rejected on the contingency of some kind of “faith”. Instead of received it might better be translated as accepted (with the option of being rejected or not accepted).

“Sacrifice of atonement” is described by Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer as the “ransom payment” or just “ransom”. So God is offering a ransom payment to be accepted by those with faith or rejected by those refusing or just not accepted by those lacking faith.


A huge part of that ransom payment that especially applies to those that are already Christians is the life giving cleansing blood of Christ. Christ and God would have personally preferred that blood remained in Christ’s veins, but I needed it given up by Christ to flow over both my outside and my heart to know, experience, “trust” and feel I am cleansed and made alive. So Christ willingly gave up His blood for me and because of me. This is an overwhelming tragedy I insisted on to believe: I was made holy, righteous and stand justified. Without knowing and feeling this blood flowing over my heart, I might question my cleansing?


“Demonstrate his righteousness” God did not become righteous, but just showed the righteousness He has always had. (God’s justice/ holiness/being right) comes with the atoning sacrifice that includes the life giving cleansing blood showing God’s righteousness/justice in a very particular way; by resolving the huge problem that existed under the Old Covenant. That huge problem in the Old Covenant was with the handling of intentional sins that where committed, repented of, and which the individual sought forgiveness from God for doing (and God forgave without justly disciplining the sinner [thus not showing His righteousness through His disciplining]). These sins could be forgiven by God, but there was no way to fairly/justly discipline (punish) the sinner and still have the sinner live in the Promised Land. God did have fair/just punishments (discipline) for these sins, but the Jews could not follow through with them, since all Jews deserved to be treated similarly (there would be no one left in the Promised Land).


“in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished” Instead of “unpunished” I would translate that Greek word to be “undisciplined”.

“because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished”, shows the contrast between before and after the cross. This is not saying: “before the cross sins are now being punished by Christ going to the cross”, but is saying they were left unpunished prior to the cross. If they are being handled the “same way” as sins after the cross there would be no contrast? (And there are lots of other problems with this reasoning.) There is no “punishment” (disciplining for intentional sins) before the cross yet there is “punishment” (disciplining of God’s children) with the cross.


Any good parent realizes the need for not just forgiving their rebellious disobedient child, but to also see to the child’s fair/just/loving discipline if at all possible, but under the Old Covenant there was no “fair/just/loving discipline” so God could not show His justice/righteousness except to point out in the Law what really should happen, but that is not “good” disciplining, the child can almost feel they got away with something.


By my coming to the realization of my forcing Christ to be tortured, humiliated and murdered, because of my personal sins I experience a death blow to my heart (Acts 2: 37) the worst possible experience I can have and still live (That is also the most sever disciplining I can experience and still live). Thus I know God is my loving concerned Parent (since He at great cost has seen to my disciplining). I know how significant my sins really are; I can put those sins behind me after being disciplined. Since God and Jesus shared in my disciplining “I am crucified with Christ” (a teaching moment) our relationship is even greater than before my transgressing.

What is the benefit/value for us that we would want to accept the ransom payment of Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder?

What value benefit did it have for those 3000 on the day of Pentecost?

Would those 3000 have become baptized believers on the day of Pentecost if Peter had not been able to say: Acts 2:36 “…this Jesus whom you crucified”?

So for those 3000, their crucifying Christ (ransom payment/atoning sacrifice) resulted in them becoming baptized believers on the day of Pentecost! Did it have value for them?


This will get us started if you really want to know.
 
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Hethatreadethit

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You do good to bring this question up for if the debt is paid in full there is nothing to forgive. Paul was forgiven of murdering innocent Christians, so no one has to pay that debt, but that does bring up the fact as parents we not only forgive our rebellious disobedient children, but we also see to their discipline for all the benefits of loving discipline if at all possible. Paul said he was crucified with Christ so was that fair/just disciplining for him?


The subject you are addressing is huge since books have been written on it with lots of different conclusions; mostly due to the preconceived ideas of the authors.


We can work on this together and draw our own most likely alternative interpretation that will be very biblical, consistent and logical.


To begin with:


During the time of Christ, the Jewish people in and around Jerusalem would have had a much better understanding of atonement since atonement sacrifices were going on every hour at the temple, maybe thousands each day. All mature adults would have most likely participated in the individual process of atonement, but this was only for unintentional sins (really minor sins) since intentional sins had no Old Testament system for atonement.


Those only able to afford a bag of flour (Lev. 5) certainly would not have considered that bag of flour to be a “substitute” for them. There is nothing to suggest the Jewish people ever thought of any sacrifices to be substitutes for them. So what did they experience in this atonement process for unintentional sins?

If we could relate to their atonement experience for “minor” sins we might be able to extrapolate to what the atonement process would be like for intentional sins? (Read Lev. 5)


Forgiveness for unintentional sins came after the completion of the atonement process (Lev. 5), but did God need a bag of flour to forgive the person’s sins?


Would God need anything to forgive a person’s sins or is it the person needing something to accept that forgiveness as pure charity?


Is Christ Crucified described by Paul, Peter, Jesus, John and the Hebrew writer as a ransom payment (it is not even said to be like a ransom payment, but it was a ransom payment)?


I find the ransom description more than just an analogy to be an excellent fit and I am not talking about the “Ransom Theory of Atonement”

(The “Ransom Theory of Atonement” has God paying satan the cruel torture, humiliation and murder of Christ but: Does God owe Satan anything? Is there some cosmic “law” saying you have to pay the kidnapper? Would it not be wrong for God to pay satan, if God could just as easily and safely take back His children without paying satan?)


Would a ransom as those in the first century might understand it (it was well known Caesura at 21 had been kidnapped and a ransom paid for him) included the following elements:


1. Someone other than the captive paying the ransom.

2. The payment is a huge sacrificial payment for the payer, who would personally prefer not to pay.

3. Since those that come to God must come as children, it is the children of God that go to the Father.

4. The payer cannot safely or for some other reason get his children any other way than making the payment.

5. The kidnapper is totally undeserving.

6. The kidnapper can accept or reject the payment.



Go to Luke 15: 11-32 the prodigal son story to illustrate:


Who in the middle of the night snuck in and dragged off the young son, force the son to do evil stuff and finally chained him to a pigsty starving to death? (this is not the way it happened, but the child of the father was kidnapped.)


Who returned to the father, was it the son that rebelliously wished his father’s death so he could get his inheritance or was it the child of the father?


We can only come to our Father as children, so who is keeping the nonbeliever in the unbelieving state (who is this kidnapper)?


There is the one ransom, but could there be many kidnappers and many children?


Who are the kidnappers?


Looking at verses in particular:


(NIV) Ro. 3:25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—


“God presented” this might be better expressed as “God is offering” since it will later be received, received or rejected on the contingency of some kind of “faith”. Instead of received it might better be translated as accepted (with the option of being rejected or not accepted).

“Sacrifice of atonement” is described by Jesus, Paul, Peter, John and the Hebrew writer as the “ransom payment” or just “ransom”. So God is offering a ransom payment to be accepted by those with faith or rejected by those refusing or just not accepted by those lacking faith.


A huge part of that ransom payment that especially applies to those that are already Christians is the life giving cleansing blood of Christ. Christ and God would have personally preferred that blood remained in Christ’s veins, but I needed it given up by Christ to flow over both my outside and my heart to know, experience, “trust” and feel I am cleansed and made alive. So Christ willingly gave up His blood for me and because of me. This is an overwhelming tragedy I insisted on to believe: I was made holy, righteous and stand justified. Without knowing and feeling this blood flowing over my heart, I might question my cleansing?


“Demonstrate his righteousness” God did not become righteous, but just showed the righteousness He has always had. (God’s justice/ holiness/being right) comes with the atoning sacrifice that includes the life giving cleansing blood showing God’s righteousness/justice in a very particular way; by resolving the huge problem that existed under the Old Covenant. That huge problem in the Old Covenant was with the handling of intentional sins that where committed, repented of, and which the individual sought forgiveness from God for doing (and God forgave without justly disciplining the sinner [thus not showing His righteousness through His disciplining]). These sins could be forgiven by God, but there was no way to fairly/justly discipline (punish) the sinner and still have the sinner live in the Promised Land. God did have fair/just punishments (discipline) for these sins, but the Jews could not follow through with them, since all Jews deserved to be treated similarly (there would be no one left in the Promised Land).


“in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished” Instead of “unpunished” I would translate that Greek word to be “undisciplined”.

“because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished”, shows the contrast between before and after the cross. This is not saying: “before the cross sins are now being punished by Christ going to the cross”, but is saying they were left unpunished prior to the cross. If they are being handled the “same way” as sins after the cross there would be no contrast? (And there are lots of other problems with this reasoning.) There is no “punishment” (disciplining for intentional sins) before the cross yet there is “punishment” (disciplining of God’s children) with the cross.


Any good parent realizes the need for not just forgiving their rebellious disobedient child, but to also see to the child’s fair/just/loving discipline if at all possible, but under the Old Covenant there was no “fair/just/loving discipline” so God could not show His justice/righteousness except to point out in the Law what really should happen, but that is not “good” disciplining, the child can almost feel they got away with something.


By my coming to the realization of my forcing Christ to be tortured, humiliated and murdered, because of my personal sins I experience a death blow to my heart (Acts 2: 37) the worst possible experience I can have and still live (That is also the most sever disciplining I can experience and still live). Thus I know God is my loving concerned Parent (since He at great cost has seen to my disciplining). I know how significant my sins really are; I can put those sins behind me after being disciplined. Since God and Jesus shared in my disciplining “I am crucified with Christ” (a teaching moment) our relationship is even greater than before my transgressing.

What is the benefit/value for us that we would want to accept the ransom payment of Christ’s torture, humiliation and murder?

What value benefit did it have for those 3000 on the day of Pentecost?

Would those 3000 have become baptized believers on the day of Pentecost if Peter had not been able to say: Acts 2:36 “…this Jesus whom you crucified”?

So for those 3000, their crucifying Christ (ransom payment/atoning sacrifice) resulted in them becoming baptized believers on the day of Pentecost! Did it have value for them?


This will get us started if you really want to know.

My! that was quite an introduction! Without faith and understanding, I believe most sins fall under unintentional, especially with pre-Christ Jews. I think God looked away from their sins and did not
hold Her (the Jews) to the old covenant:

Num 30:3 If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth;
Num 30:4 And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.
Num 30:5 But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her.

Christ actually told the church not to make vows or swear. The Jews did not possess the knowledge of Christ to make or fulfill God's will in Christ, therefore, they are (for the most part) forgiven.
Only those who have the mind of Christ could actually fulfill a vow. Having the mind of Christ, means that one has the knowledge of the truth. The knowledge of the truth was God's will concerning burnt offerings:

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Interesting point here is that the daily sacrifice was the same type of offering used in performing a vow. Compare:

Num 15:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land of your habitations, which I give unto you,
Num 15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Num 15:4 Then shall he that offereth his offering unto the LORD bring a meat offering of a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of oil.
Num 15:5 And the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering shalt thou prepare with the burnt offering or sacrifice, for one lamb.


Exo 29:38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
Exo 29:39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
Exo 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.

Was the daily sacrifice all about a Vow? Wasn't God's purpose in fulfilling His vow with Abraham? And to this purpose Christ came to fulfill and manifest God's will by giving the knowledge of the truth, and for bringing forth the judgment (altar fire) to reveal the pleasing offering (sacrifice of Praise) to those who would recognize that their sin was responsible for His crucifixion. To offer a sin offering is righteousness if done according to the will of God. All have sinned, in Adam, the free gift of death, but in Christ, righteousness, for He was made sin, and all sinners crucified him, and died with Him.

So all men should see that their sin was responsible for the death of the Messiah, and repent for there remains no more sacrifice for sin:

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Much more here but this is enough for now.

Sincerely:
Hethatreadethit
 
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My! that was quite an introduction! Without faith and understanding, I believe most sins fall under unintentional, especially with pre-Christ Jews. I think God looked away from their sins and did not
hold Her (the Jews) to the old covenant:

Num 30:3 If a woman also vow a vow unto the LORD, and bind herself by a bond, being in her father's house in her youth;
Num 30:4 And her father hear her vow, and her bond wherewith she hath bound her soul, and her father shall hold his peace at her: then all her vows shall stand, and every bond wherewith she hath bound her soul shall stand.
Num 30:5 But if her father disallow her in the day that he heareth; not any of her vows, or of her bonds wherewith she hath bound her soul, shall stand: and the LORD shall forgive her, because her father disallowed her.

Christ actually told the church not to make vows or swear. The Jews did not possess the knowledge of Christ to make or fulfill God's will in Christ, therefore, they are (for the most part) forgiven.
Only those who have the mind of Christ could actually fulfill a vow. Having the mind of Christ, means that one has the knowledge of the truth. The knowledge of the truth was God's will concerning burnt offerings:

Hos 6:6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Interesting point here is that the daily sacrifice was the same type of offering used in performing a vow. Compare:

Num 15:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land of your habitations, which I give unto you,
Num 15:3 And will make an offering by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, or a sacrifice in performing a vow, or in a freewill offering, or in your solemn feasts, to make a sweet savour unto the LORD, of the herd, or of the flock:
Num 15:4 Then shall he that offereth his offering unto the LORD bring a meat offering of a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of oil.
Num 15:5 And the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering shalt thou prepare with the burnt offering or sacrifice, for one lamb.


Exo 29:38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
Exo 29:39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
Exo 29:40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.

Was the daily sacrifice all about a Vow? Wasn't God's purpose in fulfilling His vow with Abraham? And to this purpose Christ came to fulfill and manifest God's will by giving the knowledge of the truth, and for bringing forth the judgment (altar fire) to reveal the pleasing offering (sacrifice of Praise) to those who would recognize that their sin was responsible for His crucifixion. To offer a sin offering is righteousness if done according to the will of God. All have sinned, in Adam, the free gift of death, but in Christ, righteousness, for He was made sin, and all sinners crucified him, and died with Him.

So all men should see that their sin was responsible for the death of the Messiah, and repent for there remains no more sacrifice for sin:

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Much more here but this is enough for now.

Sincerely:
Hethatreadethit

All mature adults intentionally do stuff that hurts other people for mostly selfish reasons, these are not what God describes in Lev. as being unintentional sins and we know this because these acts burden our conscience (they are sins).

God can easily forgive these sins if we turn to him for help (forgiveness) and accept that forgiveness as pure charity. But there is more needed to truly feel justified before God and that is where atonement comes in.
 
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