The Double Message of Eternal Security.

stuart lawrence

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Paul understood burning with lust and said to marry. You were too young to marry. What a pickle! I would consider your over-charged hormones, a trial, producing patience.

No, I wouldn't condemn you, stuart. I certainly do not know everything. And as for your beliefs on the law, I plan to re-read the whole New Testament to see if I need to make changes to my own beliefs. I do this regularly as each time the Holy Spirit teaches me a new-to-me revelation. I only want to "teach" God's meaning to Scripture. I do remember not that many years ago that given to a Christian, grace is the power of God, no longer just unmerited favor as in first coming to Christ. And I remember when I was still a Seventh-day Adventist being first shown grace in 1970 and seeing it as you do now. I will re-visit scripture with a focus on grace/sin/law/all of the above. In 1971 I remember my first encounter with a Pentecostal, and believed it. But it took till 1977 to receive the overflowing presence and infilling in my life. (my testimony). I had so much power over sin over-night, I do know-that-I-know that grace IS the power of God. However, looking back, I still sinned in areas I didn't know were sin, due to a false teaching I learned from a teacher (not at Jack Hayford's church) that mis-represented some sins. But in time the Holy Spirit straightened out those crooked paths. Some sins really are a matter of the heart and knowledge revealed. Are they willful, or done in ignorance. But God will finish and perfect what He started in us.
BTW

A couple of years ago, to please somebody I attended some SDA church meetings, and got to know a few SDA quite well.
From my own personal observations, I remember sitting in a discussion group with the overwhelming sense of: Where is the Holy Spirit?

The first thing that really disturbed me was some church members taking the Lord's name in vain in casual conversation, and laughing as they did so, apparently unaware they were breaking one of the TC. As you would know, SDA are most insistent the TC must be obeyed.
I noticed that many SDA were sticklers for tithing, obviously attending church on Saturdays, not eating the Levitical unclean foods or drinking alcohol. But from what I saw up close as it were, some legalistic rules were followed according to the letter, while much of the heart of the law was not.
One woman strictly adhered to the letter of law mentioned, but at the same time had many affairs.
A member of a choir also had many affairs, and a woman who often took the service before the minister spoke was also in a relationship outside of marriage.
Of course, I don't claim this kind of thing is limited to the SDA church. But it seemed a million miles away from my Christian experiences.
I once told you I went out with someone I should never have gone out with and had a sexual relationship with the person. I could never have turned up at church each week and joined heartily in the service whilst doing that. Yet one woman at the SDA church could, whilst having many affairs. She even shouted out AMEN when the minister said something she approved of.
Such christianity I could never fathom or understand. It is totally alien to me
 
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stuart lawrence

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Thanks, Stuart. That's all I want, is to know His will. And I see you do too. I do know that I must read a whole book from beginning to end, but slowly, absorbing, in context. I always come away with something fresh.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Thanks, Stuart. That's all I want, is to know His will. And I see you do too. I do know that I must read a whole book from beginning to end, but slowly, absorbing, in context. I always come away with something fresh.
A minister I much respected said you can read a verse or passage fifty times. But when you read it the fifty first time, you have fresh revelation of what it is saying. I liked that, and have found it to be true myself
 
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1stcenturylady

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A minister I much respected said you can read a verse or passage fifty times. But when you read it the fifty first time, you have fresh revelation of what it is saying. I liked that, and have found it to be true myself

Exactly. Ever since growing up in a church that believed they had THE TRUTH, and found it to be false, I NEVER again was a denominationalist with a closed mind to anything else. That is why I find it unbelievable that in some of the other forums, when presenting what a scripture actually says, some will chose a CONTRADICTORY interpretation belonging to their denomination. Amazing!
 
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stuart lawrence

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Exactly. Ever since growing up in a church that believed they had THE TRUTH, and found it to be false, I NEVER again was a denominationalist with a closed mind to anything else. That is why I find it unbelievable that in some of the other forums, when presenting what a scripture actually says, some will chose a CONTRADICTORY interpretation belonging to their denomination. Amazing!
Well like you, I was raised in a church that believed it had THE TRUTH. Yet I found that to be untrue, so like you, I then ceased to be a denominationalism.
Yes for many their church interpretation, not the plain words of the Bible is their bottom line
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well like you, I was raised in a church that believed it had THE TRUTH. Yet I found that to be untrue, so like you, I then ceased to be a denominationalism.
Yes for many their church interpretation, not the plain words of the Bible is their bottom line

Exactly. So are you going to join me in reading through the NT again? For this emphasis, I'm starting in Romans through Jude? I try to use different translations each time.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Exactly. So are you going to join me in reading through the NT again? For this emphasis, I'm starting in Romans through Jude? I try to use different translations each time.
I think you are wise to read Romans through to Jude concerning this!
Strangely, I will be at Romans in a couple of days! Getting near the end of Acts. I always read all the books right through to Jude. Revelation I seldom read
 
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1stcenturylady

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I think you are wise to read Romans through to Jude concerning this!
Strangely, I will be at Romans in a couple of days! Getting near the end of Acts. I always read all the books right through to Jude. Revelation I seldom read

I do read Jesus' letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 though. I got a revelation hit in there a couple weeks ago about "first love."
 
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stuart lawrence

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I do read Jesus' letters to the seven churches in Revelation 2 and 3 though. I got a revelation hit in there a couple weeks ago about "first love."
I must have read the NT well over fifty times, apart from revelation , which I have read four or five times
Glad you learnt something recently from reading that book
 
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1stcenturylady

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I must have read the NT well over fifty times, apart from revelation , which I have read four or five times
Glad you learnt something recently from reading that book

What is your favorite book?
 
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stuart lawrence

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1 John, but I can see why Romans would be Paul's masterpiece. I love John.
Apart from revelation I read all the books of the NT equally. I go straight through from Matthew to Jude. But concerning the Apostles letters, it is Pauls i hold most dear.
 
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Apart from revelation I read all the books of the NT equally. I go straight through from Matthew to Jude. But concerning the Apostles letters, it is Pauls i hold most dear.

Well, as you know you and I don't see 1 John 1:8 the same, but before I knew why, I found it puzzling that it contradicted 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 3:4-6 or 4-10 even. God always answers my "puzzles" sooner or later. It was then I started learning about Hebrew styles of writing, and even the "clear" word, if it contradicts, is for a reason. Let's not discuss it here. But just thought you'd like to know the "process."
 
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Do you think Paul and James had some lively debates?

Oh yes, indeed, over works. However, if both are right, which both are inspired, you find that works come naturally after conversion, and isn't a source for salvation.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Well, as you know you and I don't see 1 John 1:8 the same, but before I knew why, I found it puzzling that is contradicted 1 John 1:7 and 1 John 3:4-6 or 4-10 even. God always answers my "puzzles" sooner or later. It was then I started learning about Hebrew styles of writing, and even the "clear" word, if it contradicts, is for a reason. Let's not discuss it here. But just thought you'd like to know the "process."
A pentecostal once said to me: you must read the Bible as a cohesive whole.
He was right. Just plucking an odd verse out here or there, without reading the whole segment it is part of, or seeking to align it to the totality of the message, can lead to much error
 
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A pentecostal once said to me: you must read the Bible as a cohesive whole.
He was right. Just plucking an odd verse out here or there, without reading the whole segment it is part of, or seeking to align it to the totality of the message, can lead to much error

Right. Some say to read at least 20 verses before and after an interesting text.
 
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stuart lawrence

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Oh yes, indeed, over works. However, if both are right, which both are inspired, you find that works come naturally after conversion, and isn't a source for salvation.
For we maintain a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law
Rom3:28

David says the same thing when he speaks if the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness/ justification apart from works
Rom 4:6

You see that a man is justified by what he does and not by faith alone
James2:24
 
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