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Galatea

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Mostly speculation. The best thing about Heaven to me is that I will be known. I'll try to explain it, but might not be able to convey what I mean. I know me, my essence- but no one else REALLY knows me because of all these accretions. Problems with my personality. It's like we are all bits of a shipwreck at the bottom of the ocean with all kinds of barnacles and things that obscure what we really are.

In Heaven, there is no sin, no personality problems, and we will be known by each other as we really are and really want to be. I want to be known, and I want to know people without their personality problems, too.

I Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I realize the verse might be talking about Jesus, but I think it is talking about others as well. Like we can't interact completely with people here.

I guess I can be personal. My father is insane. I never knew him sane. In Heaven, I will get to know him as himself without the insanity clouding his essential self, who he really is.
 
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Solomons Porch

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Hello UnderPar it's nice to meet you and we welcome you :wave:

4ec96ae03d9475c0b35ffdf855fcc370.jpg



e8cd06d031886b72aec8167bdda8edff.jpg
 
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UnderPar

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Mostly speculation. The best thing about Heaven to me is that I will be known. I'll try to explain it, but might not be able to convey what I mean. I know me, my essence- but no one else REALLY knows me because of all these accretions. Problems with my personality. It's like we are all bits of a shipwreck at the bottom of the ocean with all kinds of barnacles and things that obscure what we really are.

In Heaven, there is no sin, no personality problems, and we will be known by each other as we really are and really want to be. I want to be known, and I want to know people without their personality problems, too.

I Corinthians 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

I realize the verse might be talking about Jesus, but I think it is talking about others as well. Like we can't interact completely with people here.

I guess I can be personal. My father is insane. I never knew him sane. In Heaven, I will get to know him as himself without the insanity clouding his essential self, who he really is.
That's if he gets to heaven, but then been known can't be the place heaven itself.
 
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Monna

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That's a good one, UnderPar!
I'm no theologian, so can't guarantee that my answer is the theologically correct one. I imagine that heaven means different things to different Christians.

Basically Heaven is where God is - not so much geographically, but in essence, in presence. The idea of experiencing "heaven on earth" is very real for me.

In the Bible "the heavens" can be the sky (i.e. the atmosphere), or all of space (as we have come to know it) or simple where God is. So context is important when interpreting a specific text in the Bible.

The New Testament also uses the terms "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven." In his famous prayer Jesus requests that "your (God) kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." So one feature of heaven is that it is where God's will is done. And Jesus obviously seems to be indicating that Christians should not be focusing on "going to heaven when we die" but on bringing heaven to earth in the here and now.

Jesus also said "the kingdom is near (in time and place)" and "the kingdom is in you."

In the kingdom of heaven Love reigns, the Truth is supreme, there is true justice, people become all they were meant to be, they are free to serve one another with no ulterior motives, there is freedom to accept service with grace and without suspicion of demands of reprocity, there is genuine delight in others, there are no power games. Jesus himself provides the role model, the focus, the rationale, the goal, the purpose and the means. And that means that there is much more than what I have described.

And if Jesus is to be beliieved, it is possible to get a real glimpse of heaven materialised here. When I look around me at certain people, I can already see evidence of heaven on earth. :clap:
 
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Solomons Porch

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Bible states: that we cannot conceive ALL that HE has in store for us, His ways are not our ways. So if my simple human mind cannot even fathom how great it is, then so be it, its gonna be awesome compared to anything here on this earth.

56dcc28e9b59f09d98ba7db44300b7e8.jpg
 
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Monna

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My (possibly misconceived) understanding of the end of the book of Revelation is that in fact, Christians will inhabit the New Earth, not some distant obscure "pie in the sky by and by." And the picture is the fulfillment of the Lord's prayer with "Jerusalem" (the city/the kingdom of God/heaven) descending to earth. And (the man) Christ Jesus will be there.
 
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Galatea

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That's if he gets to heaven, but then been known can't be the place heaven itself.
I don't quite follow what you mean. I believe in eternal security of the believer. He was saved as a child before he became insane. So I have assurance that he will be there and healed. Funnily enough, my sister independently said the same thing, that she was looking forward to knowing our dad in Heaven.
 
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redleghunter

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I always get the feeling Christians are selling me a ticket to heaven, but they don't seem to know what heaven is like. Oh they can describe hell though, and that makes me wonder.

So what's heaven like Christians.
The book of Revelation is a good source.
 
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I always get the feeling Christians are selling me a ticket to heaven, but they don't seem to know what heaven is like. Oh they can describe hell though, and that makes me wonder.

So what's heaven like Christians.
Yes, we only speculate of an afterlife, but we testify of what we know here and now. The scriptures are mostly focused on bringing Heaven to Earth (Matthew 6:10 - although the devil's doctrines in Christianity have shifted the hope to the realm of speculation, see Isaiah 28:15-18). I do have three verses for you to consider though: 1 Kings 22:19-23, John 14:2, Revelation 12:7-12. Heaven contains only those who honour the sovereignty of Yahweh God, who love righteousness.

I don't know your background yet, but if you'd like to check that you have the basics of the gospel right, I can recommend this link:

www.adonai-reigns.life/the-gospel
 
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UnderPar

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That's a good one, UnderPar!
I'm no theologian, so can't guarantee that my answer is the theologically correct one. I imagine that heaven means different things to different Christians.

Basically Heaven is where God is - not so much geographically, but in essence, in presence. The idea of experiencing "heaven on earth" is very real for me.

In the Bible "the heavens" can be the sky (i.e. the atmosphere), or all of space (as we have come to know it) or simple where God is. So context is important when interpreting a specific text in the Bible.

The New Testament also uses the terms "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven." In his famous prayer Jesus requests that "your (God) kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven." So one feature of heaven is that it is where God's will is done. And Jesus obviously seems to be indicating that Christians should not be focusing on "going to heaven when we die" but on bringing heaven to earth in the here and now.

Jesus also said "the kingdom is near (in time and place)" and "the kingdom is in you."

In the kingdom of heaven Love reigns, the Truth is supreme, there is true justice, people become all they were meant to be, they are free to serve one another with no ulterior motives, there is freedom to accept service with grace and without suspicion of demands of reprocity, there is genuine delight in others, there are no power games. Jesus himself provides the role model, the focus, the rationale, the goal, the purpose and the means. And that means that there is much more than what I have described.

And if Jesus is to be beliieved, it is possible to get a real glimpse of heaven materialised here. When I look around me at certain people, I can already see evidence of heaven on earth. :clap:
Without the incentive of heaven and being with God immortally, what else does Christianity offer you? You are never fully restored body, mind and soul while you are here. So you limp along until you make it to heaven, it then seems to me that heaven is the focal point of the whole religion. A selling point for gaining new membership, but what is actually known about this place.
 
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UnderPar

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Bible states: that we cannot conceive ALL that HE has in store for us, His ways are not our ways. So if my simple human mind cannot even fathom how great it is, then so be it, its gonna be awesome compared to anything here on this earth.

56dcc28e9b59f09d98ba7db44300b7e8.jpg
For your sake I hope you're right.
 
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Monna

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what else does Christianity offer you?

Forgiveness of sins and release from guilt, access to God's power to overcome sin on a daily basis, the possibility of becoming all I was meant to be, to develop fully the gifts God gave me for the benefit of his people, membership in Christ's "body" the (true) church - which has given me brothers and sisters around the world (really! through my job I have travelled a lot!), the knowledge and assurance that even "bad things" happening to me can be used for good, motivation in my work and wisdom in dealing with difficult situations, help in coping with pain, disease and bouts of depression.... release from the fear of death... shall I go on?

And of course I look forward to wonders beyond the grave. Escaping from hell is one thing - living with Christ is far more than that. I am assured that eternity will be with Christ - but why should I wait for heaven after I die when I can live it and contribute to its becoming a wider reality before I die?
 
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redleghunter

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Without the incentive of heaven and being with God immortally, what else does Christianity offer you? You are never fully restored body, mind and soul while you are here. So you limp along until you make it to heaven, it then seems to me that heaven is the focal point of the whole religion. A selling point for gaining new membership, but what is actually known about this place.
Something to consider. Christ wore a crown of thorns while here on earth. He never promised us a rose garden here.

It seems you may be approaching becoming a Christian as some sort of contract negotiation. It's nothing of the kind. God owes us nothing but gave us everything.
 
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UnderPar

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I don't quite follow what you mean. I believe in eternal security of the believer. He was saved as a child before he became insane. So I have assurance that he will be there and healed. Funnily enough, my sister independently said the same thing, that she was looking forward to knowing our dad in Heaven.
Do you think he'll still be your dad in heaven?
 
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Galatea

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Do you think he'll still be your dad in heaven?
Yes, I believe we will retain the familial relationships we have here. I believe my grandmother will be my grandmother, just not old.

I know we will recognize people, even people we never met. The disciples recognized Moses and Elisha, although they never knew them or had pictures of them.
 
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Galatea

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This is what the Bible says about Heaven (or the New Heaven and New Earth, to be precise) Rev. 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

You know that quote from the movie A League of their Own, and Tom Hanks tells the blonde (I think her name is Betty Spaghetti) "There's no crying in baseball!", I always thought people could say "There's no crying in Heaven!"
 
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