LDS BOOK OF MORMON FALSE HISTORY

Peter1000

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That's a lot of assumptions to make when one wants to rewrite historical evidences to fit a proclaimed theology.
There are a lot of assumptions in all historic evidence gathering. The further back you go, the more assumptions science and religion have to make in order for it to be relevant to their research. So nothing wrong with assuming things that are not clearly visible at the moment.
 
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Peter1000

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All roads don't lead to God, amen, ONLY JESUS saves.
and its why one of my missions is to shun interfaith back to hell from whence it was born.
And I wont ever stop, lest I am dead, for warning all to steer clear of the dragons
interfaith religion .
What is 'interfaith' religions??
 
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BigDaddy4

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There are a lot of assumptions in all historic evidence gathering. The further back you go, the more assumptions science and religion have to make in order for it to be relevant to their research. So nothing wrong with assuming things that are not clearly visible at the moment.
Yet claimed as fact by the lds. And, yes there is something wrong with making assumptions of this magnitude.
 
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withwonderingawe

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A wild assertion with no evidence to back it up. Doesn't the BoM say they were wiped out?

Actually it's the timing (but there are some Mormons who believe it all happened on the North American continent). And we are not saying the Olmec were the Jaredites but that they were perhaps part of the civilization the founding fathers. The Jaredities left sometime after the Tower of Babel, what that time frame is no one really knows. They were a small group of people when they land and in not to many years they grow into a large nation, so there is some thought that they enter married with others around the. Like the Olmec they flourish and then disappear around 400 bc. In 600 bc Lehi and his group show up somewhere south of them and two hundred years later a wandering Jaredite makes contact with them, he writes his story on a rock and dies. Writing their history and list of kings is something Olmec people did.
 
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Justaman0000

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There were 15+ people that saw the gold plates. So get up to date on your Mormon information.

He did not make up a 500+ page book about people that lived between 2300 BC and 400 Ad and its complicated secular history and its religious history, and its kings and wars and peace and geography, and how they built their buildings and what they wore and how they governed and their commerce, and their use of weights and measures, etc., etc., etc.

JS translated this record from gold plates, written by a prophet of God around
400 AD. He could not have made this up. He was not an educated person, so his ability to write or anybody in 1825 to write anything about this time period in the world, is pretty close to zero.

His objective was not to give a reason why the natives were here in the Americas.
The reason JS translated the plates by the power of God was to be a second witness that it is through Jesus Christ that men are saved. It is a book about how Jesus Christ called men out of the Jerusalem area to leave the corrupted religion of the Jews and go to the Americas where they could be taught the truth and live the gospel of Jesus Christ. They lived the law of Moses until Jesus died and was resurrected and then the resurrected Christ came to the Americas and taught them personally.

That is the reason for the book, to testify of Jesus Christ.

His friends and him made it up. Its not hard to make something like that up. Look at scientology and any other new religion or cult. There was no reason for God to reveal such a thing as some "hidden" plates that do not add any kind of extra revelation for salvation. Salvation was already established, and the majority of christians today dont know, or care, who joseph smith is, nor do they need to know what he supposedly found. It doesnt affect anyone elses salvation.
 
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withwonderingawe

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His friends and him made it up. Its not hard to make something like that up. Look at scientology and any other new religion or cult. There was no reason for God to reveal such a thing as some "hidden" plates that do not add any kind of extra revelation for salvation. Salvation was already established, and the majority of christians today dont know, or care, who joseph smith is, nor do they need to know what he supposedly found. It doesnt affect anyone elses salvation.

All three of the witnesses left the church at some point for different reasons. Oliver and Martin returned before they died but David Whitmer never did and considered Joseph a fallen prophet. With all the miss-understandings between them they never denied their testimonies of the Book of Mormon.

5 of the eight witnesses died, Peter Whitmer, Jun, Christian Whitmer, Joseph Smith, Sen. Hyrum Smith, Samuel H. Smith loyal to Joseph Smith. Jacob & John Whitmer and Hiram Page follow David Whitmer out of the Church. Page was a brother in-law to David.

Anyone of them could have stood up and denied their witness, Hiram Page was severely beaten by a mob and driven from his home. They were all threatened and had to move many times with their families. Yet not a one ever denied their witness of what they had seen, handled and heard.

Some history
There is a conspiracy theory about David Whitmer's excommunication which says it was organized by men from within the Church who were trying to overthrow Joseph. It was sort of a culture shock to find out you couldn't vote a prophet out of office like you could other minsters.

There was this secret group call Danites, they went around causing problems with the Missouri people and actually attacking some settlers. This of course caused some of the backlash against the Church, they were doing an eye for eye sort of justice. This may have been an organized effort to destabilize the Church, like I said its a conspiracy theory. There are several different stories about them and another group who had sworn to kill Joseph but we don't have a lot of information because they didn't keep records. Another group wanted to simply depose him and replace him with David Whitmer.

My husband's great great grandfather sat on the High Council which was responsible for the excommunication. At their first meeting he and others spoke out claiming they were moving to fast. He wanted to wait until Joseph Smith got there, he was on the road and about two weeks out. They held another council but this time Grandpa isn't on the list of those who passed judgement. The question is who removed him? They couldn't hold a full council if he wasn't there.

David was always known for being an honest man, says so in his obituary but this council made the accusation that David sold land that belong to the Church. I don't know the full history of it but I believe David got his pride hurt badly. He was also threatened by this group of vigilantes and so David walked away from the Church. I have never seen any communication between Joseph Smith and David Whitmer after that. David and others eventually organized the 'Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ'.

Other men like WW. Philps who was exed with David did humble themselves. Phelps turned bitterly against Joseph believing some of the humors attached to the Danites. Sometimes hate can take over a man and destroy him. His false testimony put Joseph and others in jail for six months. And was used to justify Bogg's extermination order. Several years later when he came to himself he wrote a letter to Joseph begging forgiveness

" I am alive and with thee help of God I mean to live still. I am as the prodigal Son, though I never doubt or disbelieve the fulness of the gospel: I have been greatly abased and humbled: ... I have Seen the folly of my way and I tremble at the gulf I have passed. so it is, and why I know not. I prayed and God answered, but what could I do? ...I ask forgiveness in the name of Jesus Christ of all the saints for I will do right God helping me, I want your fellowship: If you cannot grant that, grant me your peace and friendship, for we are brethren, and our communion used to be Sweet..."

Joseph wrote back;
"I must say that it is with no ordinary feelings I endeavour to write a few lines to you in answer to yours of the 29th.... I am rejoiced at the priveledge granted me. You may in some measure realise what my feelings,....
when we read your letter, truly our hearts were melted into tenderness and compassion when we assertained your resolves...It is true, that we have suffered much in consequence of your behavior—the cup of gall already full enough for mortals to drink, was indeed filled to overflowing when you turned against us: One with whom we had oft taken sweet council together, and enjoyed many refreshing seasons from the Lord ...However the cup has been drunk, the will of our heavenly Father has been done, and we are yet alive for which we thank the Lord. And having been delivered from the hands of wicked men by the mercy of our God,...
Believing your confession to be real and your repentance genuine, I shall be happy once again to give you the right hand of fellowship, and rejoice over the returning prodigal.
Your letter was read to the saints last sunday and an expression of their feeling was taken, when it was unanimously resolved that W.W. Phelps should be received into fellowship.
“Come on dear Brother since the war is past,
For friends at first are friends again at last.”
Yours as Ever
Joseph Smith Jr

It's just sad that Joseph Smith and David Whitmer couldn't have worked out their problems the same way. However David's testimony from outside of the Church perhaps is even more convincing.
 
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withwonderingawe

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Elephants are mentioned only once in the Book of Ether. These people brought their animals with them, they brought two probably young elephants on their boats along with horses which would have been a lot smaller than ours today. The elephants are never mentioned again so it is assumed they didn't make it past the first generation. The horses are treated as a herd and more like something to eat. No one every jumps on a horse and rides away. They may have been used to pull a cart or tram of some type. No wheel is ever mentioned in the Book of Mormon. At one point about 18ad the horses disappear so it is assumed that during their wars they were eaten and died off.

There is another example of this with the honey bee. In Ether 2 they bring a colony of bees with them but they are never mentioned again on this continent. The Nephites bring a large amount of honey with them but no bees. Other than that the only honey mentioned was Nephi quoting

Isaiah 7: 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

So we have to assume like the elephants they didn't make it and died out before they could get established.

The point is if Joseph Smith had written this himself he would have had men falling off of horses in battles or stampeding elephants, honey would have been mentioned as part of their list of foods but it never is.
 
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withwonderingawe

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You know how the Bible Scholars look at the the different books of the Bible and try to figure out who wrote what and when. It seems we all use favorite words and phrases. I uses a lot of ‘that', ‘however’ and ‘in other words’.

It’s called morphosyntax; The study of grammatical categories or linguistic units that have both morphological and syntactic properties. The set of rules that govern linguistic units whose properties are definable by both morphological and syntactic criteria.

Well there are a group of men who have done this to the Book of Mormon. There is a very technical article written by Stanford Carmack. He is using Royal Skousen’s The Book of Mormon, the Earliest Text and comparing the wording to Joseph’s 1832 history.

How Joseph Smith’s Grammar Differed from Book of Mormon Grammar: Evidence from the 1832 History

Carmack explains "I have mainly derived Early Modern English examples from a 700-million-word WordCruncher corpus that I made from almost 25,000 EEBO Phase 1 texts (www.wordcruncher.com; Provo, UT: BYU, 1991–). This corpus is precisely searchable, making it a valuable resource for discovering Early Modern English usage. In addition to ECCO, the Google Books database was essential for the modern period, as well as the associated Ngram Viewer.

So yes it goes right over my head,


Dr. Peterson shortens it down

“…he argues, the 1832 “History” offers a very useful glance into Joseph’s linguistic preferences and habits, and specifically into his grammar, at a time not too far removed from the dictation of the Book of Mormon, which makes comparison between the two texts meaningful and significant.

With this article, Carmack deepens and solidifies one of the arguments that he and Skousen have been making with meticulous care, on the basis of objectively “observable, descriptive linguistic facts: the earliest text of the Book of Mormon contains a large amount of archaic language — vocabulary, syntax and morphology — that is not found, either systematically or at all, in 19th-century American dialect or in the King James Bible. Massively represented syntax supports independent instances of archaic, extra-biblical vocabulary. Obsolete lexical usage supports the descriptive linguistic conclusion that there is archaic, extra-biblical syntax and morphology.”

All of which, among other things, comes together to suggest, in a manner nobody had imagined even a few years ago, that neither Joseph Smith nor any of his contemporaries wrote the Book of Mormon.”

Defending the Faith: Is the English Book of Mormon written in Joseph Smith's language?
 
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withwonderingawe

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There is another example of this with the honey bee. In Ether 2 they bring a colony of bees with them but they are never mentioned again on this continent. The Nephites bring a large amount of honey with them but no bees. Other than that the only honey mentioned was Nephi quoting

Isaiah 7: 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

So we have to assume like the elephants they didn't make it and died out before they could get established.

The point is if Joseph Smith had written this himself he would have had men falling off of horses in battles or stampeding elephants, honey would have been mentioned as part of their list of foods but it never is.

It appears I was wrong about something, the bee. One of the criticisms of the Book of Mormon has been that there were no honey bees in America until the white men brought them but that's not true. There were no honey bees in North America but they did have them in Central America :wave: Something Joseph Smith would not have known.

From Wik
Ah-Muzen-Cab is one of the Maya gods of bees and honey. He is possibly the same figure as "the Descending God" or "the Diving God" and is consistently depicted upside-down. The Temple of the Descending God is located in Tulum. The bees used by the ancient Maya were Melipona beecheii and Melipona yucatanica, species of stingless bee.

Seems when Cortes showed up they had to pay tributes of honey and wax.
 
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withwonderingawe

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www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLzjaLPSSak&spfreload=5

This video is rather long and kind of slow moving, in all honesty I would hate to sit though one of this guy’s classes except ever so often he drops a funny you’re not expecting.

What it is about is a group of archeologist and others who are making a list of all credible criticism of the Book of Mormon made over the last 187 years. It’s date 2012 so 5 years ago, it would be interesting to see if there has been an up date.

He makes a list of all the things which at one time were thought not to exist in the Americas and so proves the Book of Mormon false and then shows how over the years they have been found. He asks; well does finding them prove the Book of Mormon?

At the end he gives an idea I never noticed before which I will address, he was talking about culture differences. In Joseph Smith’s culture God dwells in heaven somewhere above the earth, heaven is above and God looks down upon the earth.

In the Book of Mormon Ammon is is teaching a man far removed from that Bible Christian culture yet has been taught that there is a Great Spirit but doesn’t know much about him.

Alma 18
26 And then Ammon said: Believest thou that there is a Great Spirit? (pre-earth Yahweh)
27 And he/Lamoni said, Yea.
28 And Ammon said: This is God. And Ammon said unto him again: Believest thou that this Great Spirit, who is God, created all things which are in heaven and in the earth?

29 And he said: Yea, I believe that he created all things which are in the earth; but I do not know the heavens.

He does not have a concept of heaven, isn’t that odd.

30 And Ammon said unto him: The heavens is a place where God dwells and all his holy angels.
31 And king Lamoni said: Is it above the earth?

32 And Ammon said: Yea, and he looketh down upon all the children of men; and he knows all the thoughts and intents of the heart; for by his hand were they all created from the beginning.

He seems completely surprised that God would dwell above the earth, why is that?

Well it seems depending on where one lived most of the Mayan gods dwelt in the earth. The underworld or Xibalba is described in the Popol Vuh as a court below the surface of the Earth associated with death and with twelve gods or powerful rulers known as the Lords of Xibalba.

Lamoni’s and Ammon’s culture have very different views of reality and Lamoni is learning for the first time that God dwells above the earth.

Joseph Smith would not have known about those culture differences it simply would not have occurred to him.
 
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withwonderingawe

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Two little interesting points

*4 Nephi 1: 24 And now, in this two hundred and first year there began to be among them those who were lifted up in pride, such as the wearing of costly apparel, and all manner of fine pearls, and of the fine things of the world.

“Archaeologists in southern Mexico have discovered the 2,700-year-old tomb of a dignitary inside a pyramid that may be the oldest such burial documented in Mesoamerica…..The older man was buried with jade and amber collars and bracelets and pearl ornaments.”

www.theguardian.com/science/2010/may/18/archaeology-pyramid-tomb-mexico-olmec


*Alma 43
19 And when the armies of the Lamanites saw that the people of Nephi, or that Moroni, had prepared his people with breastplates and with arm-shields, yea, and also shields to defend their heads, and also they were dressed with thick clothing—

Mayan Protective Armour
The ancient Maya regularly participated in wars and conflicts and developed protective clothing as a means of defense. These outfits involved a padded mantle (perhaps made from twisted cotton or thick leaves), often covered with animal skin, and accoutrements such as shields decorated with animal hide or feathers.

What did the ancient Maya wear?
 
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withwonderingawe

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In the Book of Mormon there is a man named Lehi, he does not live in Jerusalem but somewhere near. He leaves there and goes to the Red Sea which might of taken a week and then travels 3 more days where he pitches his tent for a rest.

“And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea…”

He then sends his sons back to Jerusalem to try and obtain the Brass Plates which contains scriptures and his genealogy.

“And I, Nephi, and my brethren took our journey in the wilderness, with our tents, to go up to the land of Jerusalem.”

Then after a confrontation with Laban they decide to buy the plates;

“And it came to pass that we went down to the land of our inheritance, and we did gather together our gold, and our silver, and our precious things.”

Now this up and down does not mean north or south as it means to us but that Jerusalem sits on a hill and so they went up and down the hill, not a concept Joseph Smith would have had. He didn’t even know Jerusalem had a wall around it until his wife told him so.

In what is called the Gaza strip today there is an ancient city named Beit Lahia or House of Lahi which is down from Jerusalem. Was this the land of Lehi’s inheritance? We don’t know, it would be nice to do some archaeology work there to see just how old it is, but the real point is the name of Lehi or Lahi is a personal name which Joseph Smith would have not known.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beit_Lahia
 
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withwonderingawe

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There are professors at BYU who have doctorates in Middle Eastern studies. They speak Hebrew and Arabic and translate accident manuscripts. As they read the Book of Mormon they are often amazed at the cultural nuances from the Old Testament world which Joseph Smith would not have understood but are found in it. I have here four examples found in 1 Nephi 3 & 4 and the story of Laban.

* In Old Testament culture and any ancient culture of the Middle East having a rod, staff or stick was a sign of authority.

Ex 4:
1And Moses answered and said, But, behold, they will not believe me, nor hearken unto my voice: for they will say, The Lord hath not appeared unto thee.
2 And the Lord said unto him, What is that in thine hand? And he said, A rod….

Zech 8:4
“Thus saith the Lord of hosts; There shall yet old men …..dwell in the streets of Jerusalem, and every man with his staff in his hand for very age.”

It was a symbol of a free man and of authority, it could be used to beat someone who was your inferior.

Proverbs 26:3
3 A whip for the horse, a bridle for the ass, and a rod for the fool’s back.

Ex 21
20 ¶ And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.

It was okay to beat the servant just a little and Paul was beaten with rods by the Jews

In the Book of Mormon there is this incident which happens between Nephi, Sam and their older brothers who would have had authority over them. They have lost all of their gold and silver because Laban stole it from them. They become very angry

“And it came to pass as they smote us with a rod, behold, an angel of the Lord came and stood before them, and he spake unto them, saying: Why do ye smite your younger brother with a rod? Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities? ….” 1 Nephi 3

The idea that a young bother would rule over them was disturbing, they held the rod they were in authority.

* They return to Jerusalem and Nephi goes into the city not knowing what he is going to do.

“as I came near unto the house of Laban I beheld a man, and he had fallen to the earth before me, for he was drunken with wine.
And when I came to him I found that it was Laban.
....And I beheld his sword, and I drew it forth from the sheath thereof; …..And it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban; but I said in my heart: Never at any time have I shed the blood of man. And I shrunk and would that I might not slay him. And the Spirit said unto me again: Behold the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands. Yea, and I also knew that he had sought to take away mine own life; yea, and he would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord; and he also had taken away our property…….
And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands;…..Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword.”

Now our Christian culture is taken back by that, God wouldn’t ask anyone to slay a drunk man. So why would Joseph make up a story like that?

Hugh Nibley was teaching a Book of Mormon class to a group of middle Eastern students who were attending BYU and they had the opposite reaction. They questioned Nephi’s hesitation. If God commanded it then you do it! The man had tried twice to kill them, had stolen their property and bore false witness against them, according to the law he deserved death.

It’s a matter of different cultures, Nephi was in the Mosaic Law culture, eye for an eye. Jesus had not yet raise the bar to a higher level of turning the other cheek.

* Nephi puts on Laban’s clothes goes to his house and with the help of Laban’s servant Zoram who thinks he is Laban obtains the scriptures they are seeking. When he goes to find his brothers Zoram suddenly realizes who he is;

“when the servant of Laban beheld my brethren he began to tremble, and was about to flee from before me and return to the city of Jerusalem…..therefore I did seize upon the servant of Laban, and held him, that he should not flee.
…. And it came to pass that I spake with him, that if he would hearken unto my words, as the Lord liveth, and as I live, even so that if he would hearken unto our words, we would spare his life.
……Therefore, if thou wilt go down into the wilderness to my father thou shalt have place with us.”

“to have place” meant he would have a seat in the circle of the family men. We would say ‘he would have a seat at the table’. He would no long be a servant but an equal. The men would sit in a circle as they ate and discussed a problem. If they ‘made place’ for you it meant they backed up and made the circle a little larger and gave you a place. Your voice was of equal importance as everyone else’s.

* And then Zoram

35And it came to pass that I spake with him, that if he would hearken unto my words, as the Lord liveth, and as I live, even so that if he would hearken unto our words, we would spare his life……And I spake unto him, even with an oath, that he need not fear; that he should be a free man like unto us if he would go down in the wilderness with us….. And it came to pass that Zoram did take courage at the words which I spake. …and he promised that he would go down into the wilderness unto our father. Yea, and he also made an oath unto us that he would tarry with us from that time forth……And it came to pass that when Zoram had made an oath unto us, our fears did cease concerning him.

“..our fears did cease concerning him..” ?

In our modern day western culture oaths aren’t always taken very seriously, we have to make long contracts and have a notary public. Notaries have been around since Roman times. In 1279 the Archbishop of Canterbury was authorized by the Pope to appoint notaries, wik.

So why would Joseph write this into his story, why not make it more sinister with Zoram running off and them having to track him down.

It is because this is a story about Middle Eastern culture and not Western;

Num 30
“2 If a man vow a vow unto the Lord, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth.

When John the Baptist was beheaded it was because the daughter of Herodias danced before Herod;
"Whereupon he promised with an oath to give her whatsoever she would ask." and she asked for John's head.

"And the king was sorry: nevertheless for the oath’s sake, and them which sat with him at meat, he commanded it to be given her." Matt 14

In their culture when a man made an oath he kept it.

If Joseph had stumbled into one aspect of these cultural differences we could say it was just luck but four in one story? It’s just one of those little items which testify of it’s truthfulness.
 
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There has been a lot of criticism about the use of the term ‘reformed Egyptian’ in the Book of Mormon Nephi said;

“Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.”

Now there is such a thing as ‘reformed Egyptian’ but that is not my point here. What I’m interested in is the lasting connection they had to some of the language and culture.

In Alma 16 there is a war taking place, this is about 500 years after they left Jerusalem. There is another man named Zoram, perhaps a great great grandson of the first.

5 Therefore, he that had been appointed chief captain over the armies of the Nephites, (and his name was Zoram, and he had two sons, Lehi and Aha)

What we are interested in is the name Aha and the fact that it is connected to a warrior or military person. At fairmormon they have an article about a bronze arrow

“…from the eleventh century B.C., a time for which hardly any other instances of Hebrew writing are known….Using a high-magnification microscope, Dr. R. Thomas Chase …examined the newest set of points to be located and discovered that on one "the inscription had been incised with a steel engraving tool." … This demonstrates that steel was in use by about 1000 BC. ….One of the points examined by Thomas and McCarter bears an inscription that translates as "The arrowhead of 'Aha' son of 'Ashtart.'" …”

Wondering who Ashtart is I looked her up and found she is a Semitic Goddess of love and war. So we are talking about Semitic people of whom Israel is a part and someone a thousand years before Christ named Aha owned that arrowhead.

Not wanting to just rely on Fairmormon I did a little more digging and I found the following in an on line book call Historical Dictionary of Ancient and Medieval Nubia by Richard A. Lobban Jr. page 80.

" The evolution of the bow and arrow in Nubia is extremely ancient…Indeed , the common name for Nubia in the ancient Egyptian language was Ta-Seiu … or "bow people" … bows (pet-t in Egyptian) and arrows (aha in Egyptian) are found for all ancient Nubian horizons, including A group, C group …."

So the name Aha translates Arrow in Egyptian, so someone with the given name of Arrow or he perhaps took on the name of Arrow because he worshiped the goddess of war owned that arrowhead.

I also found his tidbit at Wikipedia which takes the word/name back to 3000 bc.

“Hor-Aha (or Aha or Horus Aha) is considered the second pharaoh of the First Dynasty of Egypt by some egyptologists,…The commonly used name Hor-Aha is a rendering of the pharaoh's Horus-name, an element of the royal titulary associated with the god Horus, and is more fully given as Horus-Aha meaning Horus the Fighter.”

Once again it has to do with being a military person and this plays out in The Book of Mormon.

www.fairmormon.org/evidences/Category:Aha
books.google.com/books
Ashtart, the Phoenician Great Goddess
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hor-Aha
 
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withwonderingawe

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"Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly." 1 Timothy 4:7

Mark 4
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
 
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Phil 1:21

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Mark 4
11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:
12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

Ezekiel 13:9

My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will not belong to the council of my people or be listed in the records of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the Sovereign LORD.

Matthew 24:24

For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

2 Timothy 4:3-4

3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit t
heir own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.


Acts 20:28-30

28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. 29 I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.30 Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.
 
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Rescued One

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men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them :sigh:

Proverbs 14
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

John 6
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.





 
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