My Views on Calvinism and Arminianism (From a 'Neitherist.')

This is not meant to be a point of debate. I am just putting forth a hypothesis. This is not the Word of God. I am neither a Calvinist nor an Arminian, but embrace both soteriological standpoints in a paradoxical way. The Bible teaches both, I believe.

I was wondering... since God is beyond time... that in some ways, Calvinism and Arminianism are both in fact true in their own ways? There is Biblical support for either side pretty much equally, and that raises questions about predetermination, free will, God's choice of His elect, and Man's decision in choosing God.

My apologies for saying bad things about all Calvinists. I don't truly think the Calvinist God is a monster, or that the Arminian God is a weakling. I think they are two halves to the same God.

I will be going through the 5 points of Calvinism and Classical Arminianism with some insights that might ease the animosity between Calvinists and Arminians.

THE FIVE POINTS OF CALVINISM (I DISAGREE WITH THE LIMITED ATONEMENT.)

1. Total Depravity

Are we totally depraved? Yes, we are. Without the illumination of the Holy Spirit to quicken us to believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, we are dead in our sins and lost.

I somewhat side with Calvinists on their interpretation of this doctrine. I will absolutely draw the line when Calvinists say that Arminians will go to hell. That is judgmental beyond what is called for. It is absolutely unbiblical to condemn Arminians because they're Arminians. I agree with the spirit in which Charles Spurgeon addressed the Arminians about how he viewed them as true Christians as well.

2. Unconditional Election

God is omnipotent. He divinely decrees what He plans. He has preordained His own. He has predestined us, indeed. To say that God did not predestine us is to clearly contradict Scripture, especially in Ephesians.

Does that mean that we have no hope of being saved? I think not. On Earth, we are on a totally different timeline from God's time. Truly, we have free will. Through reading the Bible, the Holy Spirit draws us into all Truth.

This is not conditional election. I previously stated that God preordained His own in Christ. John 6:44 and John 14:6 seem to contradict each other, but I know that they don't. It is equally true that we come to the Father through Christ, and yet come to Christ through the Father. I choose to embrace Biblical paradox here, for God is beyond human reason.

3. Limited Atonement

Is the atonement limited? Is the atonement unlimited? I think it is both in different ways. I believe the atonement, in God's eyes, seeing that He knows everything from the beginning to the end, is limited in the application yet unlimited in the extent.

The Bible truly says that Christ died for all men. I will get some flak for this, but Calvinists are indeed wrong on their views of the Atonement. I respect the other 4 points of Calvinism but the Limited Atonement is unbiblical.

4. Irresistible Grace

According to the Calvinists, grace is irresistible in that grace changes the very will. I would call it 'life-changing grace' instead of irresistible. We will not want to ever resist true grace.

Can we resist the Holy Spirit? I am not exactly sure, but the Bible mentions times that people resisted the Holy Spirit. I believe that grace can be resisted to a certain degree. I don't believe that true grace can be resisted forever, and eventually will transform the believer into a new creature entirely. This transformation will result in adoring and loving God for who He truly is.

5. Perseverance of the Saints

According to the Calvinists, true Christians will persevere until the very end. They will not lose sight of God and will conform to Christ and not the world.

I agree somewhat. Some Calvinists make it out to be a 'salvation by works' ordeal and that is patently unbiblical. Yet faith does produce works and without works, faith is indeed dead.

THE FIVE POINTS OF CLASSICAL ARMINIANISM

1. Total Depravity

True Arminians believe that without the Holy Spirit to show us prevenient grace, we are completely lost in our sins.

I agree. The Holy Spirit can lead a man to repentance and therefore belief in Jesus Christ. The Father draws us to Himself.

2. Conditional Election

Arminians in general believe that God elects those as they come to know Christ. According to them, God elects as man decides.

I am neutral on this viewpoint. I believe election to be conditionally unconditional, if you get what I mean. It is true that when we come to know the Lord, we are therefore elect by nature. Again, I embrace Biblical paradox here.

3. Unlimited Atonement

Arminians believe that Jesus died for all men.

This teaching is patently biblical. Christ died for the whole world. Does that mean everyone will be saved? No. We have to believe in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior to be saved and go to heaven. (I am actually not contradicting my views on Calvinism. Check 'Unconditional Election' to see what I mean.)

4. Resistible Grace

Arminians believe that grace is resistible.

(Re-read the second paragraph of 'Irresistible Grace.')

5. Conditional Preservation

Arminians believe that salvation can be lost if we apostatize or stray too far.

I am neutral on this position. Hebrews does mention dangers of apostatizing and falling away from the faith. Again, I embrace Biblical paradox.

MY OVERALL VIEWS

I am a 3.5 point Calvinist/Arminian on both sides. Calvinism and Arminianism on their own are incomplete and deficient. When the views are pieced together while embracing paradoxical viewpoints, I believe that a more Biblical approach comes to light. Why Calvinists and Arminians fight all the time is beyond me... They should compromise and follow Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

Essentially, if you want to believe in Jesus Christ, do so. Yet I believe that it is all preordained in a way that does not infringe on our free will.

SOME ADMONISHMENTS FOR CALVINISTS

Do not think so highly of yourself for being 'elect' of God. All true Christians are 'elect' of God and share the same grace as you do. Calvinists, Arminians, and all other true Christians are 'elect' of God. God has chosen all of you!

While I agree with 3.5 of the 5 points of Calvinism in a unique way, I do not, I mean, I do NOT believe that John Calvin was saved. His behavior is absolutely telling of his state. He was a tyrannical dictator and I do not condone him as a reasonable teacher of Scripture. This is just my opinion though. Judge men by their fruits.

Do not think of Arminians as 'lesser Christians.' They are just as good of Christians as you guys are. True, the sounder the theology, true Christianity becomes more apparent, but there are plenty of Arminians that are just as 'elect' as the Calvinists.

SOME ADMONISHMENTS FOR ARMINIANS

Do not react with such vitriol to Calvinists. Do not call Calvinists unsaved. There are saved and unsaved people among both 'factions.' True Christianity hinges upon believing that Jesus Christ is your Lord and Savior and that He died and rose on the third day.

While I agree with 3.5 of the 5 points of Arminianism in an also unique way, the way John Calvin scapegoated Arminius was absolutely unacceptable. Jesus Christ wouldn't have done that at all, neither would have Paul.

Do not think that all Calvinists are legalist. Many Calvinists follow Jesus Christ just like you do. Their theological fascination with details might ruffle your feathers a bit, but you have to accept that they're Christ followers too.

LAST WORDS

As always, may Jesus be magnified in glory. Amen.

ViaCrucis said:

I'm a Lutheran. As such none of the options given are applicable. Lutheranism is neither Calvinist nor Arminian, because the Calvinist/Arminian argument is firmly within the Reformed theological tradition. Lutherans and Reformed form two entirely different traditions that came out of the Reformation.

-CryptoLutheran

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That is really cool. I never really fully fit either into Calvinism or Arminianism, finding truth in both that which combined, provided a pretty solid soteriological model of how God can be paradoxical.

ViaCrucis said:

I'm a Lutheran. As such none of the options given are applicable. Lutheranism is neither Calvinist nor Arminian, because the Calvinist/Arminian argument is firmly within the Reformed theological tradition. Lutherans and Reformed form two entirely different traditions that came out of the Reformation.

-CryptoLutheran

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It allows me to read Romans 9:11-24 in the sense that a Calvinist would, without being puffed up with an elitist spirit saying, 'Oh how elect I am.' God forbid, in the literal sense. If someone reads the Bible and the Holy Spirit pricks their conscience to come forth to the Father, they can come.

ViaCrucis said:

The Lutheran reading of Romans 9 is typically to place it within the larger context of the epistle; most importantly is that we understand that what Paul is saying in ch. 9, being part of a larger argument, reaches its climax in the 11th chapter where the Apostle writes, "God consigned all to disobedience that He might have mercy on all." Lutherans believe in Election, and that God has predestined us in Christ; but we reject so-called "Double Predestination". The meaning of Election isn't that God chooses some and passes over others, but that we can have confidence that through the Means of Word and Sacrament we can in boldness of faith trust that we belong to God on Christ's account.

From the Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord (one of the Lutheran Confessions found in the Book of Concord),

"The eternal election of God, however, vel praedestinatio (or predestination), that is, God's ordination to salvation, does not extend at once over the godly and the wicked, but only over the children of God, who were elected and ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the world was laid, as Paul says, Eph. 1:4. 5: He hath chosen us in Him, having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ."

From the same,

"Nor is this eternal election or ordination of God to eternal life to be considered in God's secret, inscrutable counsel in such a bare manner as though it comprised nothing further, or as though nothing more belonged to it, and nothing more were to be considered in it, than that God foresaw who and how many were to be saved, who and how many were to be damned, or that He only held a [sort of military] muster, thus: "This one shall be saved, that one shall be damned; this one shall remain steadfast [in faith to the end], that one shall not remain steadfast.""

Also,

"Therefore, if we wish to consider our eternal election to salvation with profit, we must in every way hold sturdily and firmly to this, that, as the preaching of repentance, so also the promise of the Gospel is universalis (universal), that is, it pertains to all men, Luke 24:47. For this reason Christ has commanded that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name among all nations. For God loved the world and gave His Son, John 3:16. Christ bore the sins of the world, John 1:29, gave His flesh for the life of the world, John 6:51; His blood is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, 1 John 1:7; 2:2. Christ says: Come unto Me, all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest, Matt. 11:28. God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all, Rom. 11:32. The Lord is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, 2 Pet. 3:9. The same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him, Rom. 10:12. The righteousness of God, which is by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe, Rom. 3:22. This is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one that seeth the Son and believeth on Him may have everlasting life, John 6:40. Likewise it is Christ's command that to all in common to whom repentance is preached this promise of the Gospel also should be offered Luke 24:47; Mark 16:15."

In other words, Election is for our comfort as believers, it is not occasion to give license to faithlessness, as though I can say, "Since where sin abounds grace abounds all the more I shall go on sinning." As though we can live lawless and faithless lives believing we have our magic ticket to paradise; neither is Election to be regarded as cause of doubt and terror, whereby we tremble asking, "Am I elect, what if I am not elect?" This Election is to be understood through the objective means of God's grace, namely His Word and Sacraments, whereby we can be confident on account of God's Word and promises that we belong to Him on Christ's account, and this should strengthen us in faith, and bring comfort to our weary hearts. Further, that this Election and Predestination is not for the unbelieving, God has not looked at some and then others and said, "You, but not you" but rather the Gospel is to go out to every living creature as the Lord commanded, for the work of Christ is for the whole world, as God loves all without condition, and the Word is to be preached and we are confident that through this the Holy Spirit efficaciously operates to create faith and deliver sinners into the adoption of grace as children of God; it is the will and desire of God that all be saved, and it is God's will to have mercy on all.

It is about looking outside of ourselves to the external, objective work, word, and promises of God accomplished in Christ Jesus and appropriated to us by the preaching of the Word and the Sacraments as instituted for us by Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

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Great explanation of Lutheranism. I do not particularly agree on the Sacrament but I do agree that our salvation is hope for us as believers in Jesus Christ.

Albion said:

I am sure that a knowledgeable Calvinist, such as GillDouglas, could put straight a lot of the mistakes and erroneous assumptions that are part of the OP. If you care, that is.

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I am actually an ex-Calvinist so I would probably more appreciate classical Arminian theology. I got tired of always having to be right. I don't know everything. I am a baby Christian so I do probably have a handful of assumptions. This was just a hypothesis, not trying to debunk either theology.

gordonhooker said:

You really have twist, distort and torture scripture to make it fit Calvinism so I disregarded it years ago.

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Calvinism and Arminianism also twist Scripture also to fit their own framework. I was a Calvinist for over a year yet I couldn't get over 1 Timothy 4:10. It stood in the way of the Limited Atonement no matter how much I twisted it to mean otherwise. I would agree with gotQuestions on the issue, myself, that the atonement is unlimited even if the other four points of Calvinism are true. (I really do not have an opinion about Calvinism myself... I just have adverse psychological torment when I think about five-point Calvinism... Negates evangelizing and makes me question my very salvation. There is no assurance in five-point Calvinism because we have to wonder if Jesus ever died for us.)

Albion said:

I understand, and that's why I didn't treat the OP as an invitation to a debate.

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I left the Calvinist fold because my fellow Calvinists acted like a rat went up their rear-end whenever I proposed anything different than five-point Calvinism. (I don't mind four-point Calvinism but have to understand it slightly differently to prevent myself from doubting my salvation all over again, for e.g. believing that all true Christians are therefore elect, which is comforting, compared to five-point Calvinism which I believe is the cause of much pride for most Calvinists, and which I believe is the cause of despair for those who believe any different, e.g. me.)

Anto9us said:

Actual lifespans:
Calvin - 1509 - 1564
Arminius - 1560 - 1609

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My mistake, sir. Apologies. CalvinISTS scapegoating Arminius.

Anto9us said:

No Problemo, ChristIsSovereign -- CalvinISTS did indeed scapegoat Arminius

And I guess that 29 June is national

"Arminians say something nice about John Calvin Day"

Calvin's commentary on Habakkuk is best I have ever seen.

Better than the one at Qumran, which did not address the third chapter

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I admit Calvin's theology is appreciable in ways. (I'm somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism in reality. Maybe Molinism.)