MJ Only What does it mean to practice Torah?

gadar perets

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Was Jesus a real Rabbi then?
The greatest of them all.

Was he studied and learned in the Jewish laws and traditions?

Where would he have learned all of these things?

Did he have a Jewish temple where he was taught?

Would it be correct to call Him Rabbi?
Nicodemus called him "Rabbi" in John 3:2. He learned like every other Jewish child learned, by studying the Scriptures and hearing them read every Sabbath in the synagogue. However, he excelled them all in his studies and knowledge of the Scriptures, so much so that he astounded the teachers that were at the Temple when he was only 12 years old (Luke 2:46-47).

why is jesus called yeshua?
"Jesus" is an erroneous attempt at transliterating the name into English. His Hebrew (some say Aramaic) name was "Yeshua". That name was transliterated as "Iesous" in Greek, then "Iesus" in Latin and eventually "Jesus" in English when the letter "J" was invented in the 1600s or so. The name "Jesus" did not exist when Messiah was born. The name he was given means "He will save" which is what "Yeshua" means according to Hebrew lexicons.

Strong's H3442
ישׁוּע
yêshûa‛

For H3091; he will save; Jeshua, the name of two Israelites, also of a place in Palestine: - Jeshua.​

"Jeshua" is another attempt to transliterate the name into English, but again, there is no letter "J" or "J" sound in Hebrew.
 
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Open Heart

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Such wonderful questions! It is a joy to have you here in the forum.

Personally, I am floored that I never knew that Jesus kept the laws himself, meaning he kept torah, correct?
Yes, Yeshua kept the Law perfectly, PERFECTLY. He was without sin. According to Matthew 23:1-2, and Matthew 23:23, this also included the Oral Torah.

I want to walk in the footsteps of my Lord.

I am so deeply touched by this thread and the new knowledge that i am learning..

I feel like laying prostate on the floor, weeping, as Ive never really then followed my Lord and lived like He did.

I just did not know the truth.

You have such a pure heart! Just remember that we obey the Torah out of LOVE, not out of obligation. If you feel led to take on the 613, that's great. I believe you will be blessed. But you don't have to. If you are simply a moral person, following the universal laws laid out in the New Testament, reading the Torah for inspiration in how to love your neighbor as yourself, that is good enough for God. IOW, there is nothing wrong with being a part of a regular church. Messianic Judaism has good relationships with the churches. It's entirely up to you, my friend! God bless you which ever you choose.

Was Jesus a real Rabbi then?
It depends on what you mean by Rabbi. Rabbi means an expert in the knowledge and interpretation of the Torah -- certainly by that definition, Yeshua was a Rabbi. However, the formal definition of a Rabbi is a man who, by the unbroken leaning of hands, is the ordained successor to the judges of the Tanakh (OT). I don't think Yeshua had this ordination -- surely the NT would say so if it were true, since it would have been so significant.

Was he studied and learned in the Jewish laws and traditions?
It is obvious from his debates with the Pharisees that he was well learned in Torah, or he wouldn't have been able to hold his own. In fact, he was a Pharisee himself, but of a different school than those who ran the Sanhedrin in his day.

There were two houses (schools) -- bet Shammai and bet Hillel. If Christians just knew about this, the gospels would make so much more sense to them. The two schools argued with each other all the time -- these arguments are recorded in the Talmud. Yeshua's arguments are therefore quite normal and typical of Jewish tradition.

Bet Shammai was extremely strict and legalistic. You see them in the gospels, since they controlled the Sanhedrin in that time.

Bet Hillel was not as strict; it was more the spirit of the Law. For example, a convert came to Rabbi Hillel, and R. Hillel said to him, "Whatever is hateful to you, don't do to others. That is the whole Torah. You are now a Jew. God and study." BTW, bet Hillel won out the competition, and is the foundation of Rabbinical Judaism today.

Yeshua's teachings can be divided into two groups:
  1. What he taught about himself: that he was the Son of Man, the Son of God, the Messiah, and God, that he had to die, and would rise again. These teachings are unique to Yeshua.
  2. His teachings regarding the Law. These teaching (except on divorce) were all bet Hillel. His teachings on the Law were not at all unique. Any Jew reading the gospel will recognize them right away. He himself, like the Pharisees, "built a fence around the Torah" with his teachings on lust/adultery and name calling/murder.

Where would he have learned all of these things?
His earliest learning was probably at Mary's feet. Never underestimate the importance of Jewish women! Then there were the synagogues and/or Jewish schools of learning. I don't know quite what the system was, but the Pharisees believed every Jewish boy should have an education in reading/writing and Torah, and set up schools where they could learn this. It changed Jewish culture forever.

Did he have a Jewish temple where he was taught?
There was only one Temple, in Jerusalem, and it was used for Sacrifices. However, there were many local synagogues. They were places of learning and worship. The gospels record Yeshua traveling with his family to Jerusalem, and talking with the best minds in all of Judaism (it is possible he met Hillel at that time). It is also recorded that he read from the Prophet Isaiah in a synagogue in his home town.

why is jesus called yeshua?
Yeshua is the Aramaic version of his name. Aramaic was Jesus' first language, so Yeshua was the name his mother and father called him as a child. Aramaic is what Hebrew had devolved to over time, after being exposed to other languages in the area.
 
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BukiRob

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I have read the SOP and I am posting as a guest- just here for fellowship and to ask questions.

I am curious to know what someone who is MJ does to practice Torah?

I don't know what Torah is except that I think its the first few books of the OT.

If you believe the messiah has come, then sincerely I wonder what does Torah mean now and how and why does it edify or fill you up spiritually?

I have a sincere heart and am here to learn and not debate anyone.

Please feel free to share with me and help me learn.

I know Jesus was a jew, and I am drawn to that aspect.

The simplest way to look at it IMO, is that everyone who has ever lived has been saved by Grace through Faith. Abraham was saved that way as were you.

Torah is about walking UPRIGHT and walking in obedience. Let us examine an example.

You have 2 sons one is obedient and the other is disobedient.... their being obedient or disobedient does not change their standing.... they are still sons.

If you chose to ignore the Torah whether by ignorance (not knowing) or through excuse or explanations of warped doctrine then you do not reap the blessings promised to those that are walking in its light.

In any case, your status as being believer is a not a directly related thing
 
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BukiRob

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What are the blessings?
They are found listed all over the entire OT. The book of Proverbs has many as do the Psalms.

Wisdom, length of days immediately come to mind ... And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. Blessed shalt thou be in ….. the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.

Our labor will be blessed.
 
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BukiRob

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are there any more blessings besides this one?


As I said, read Proverbs... there are tons of them listed. Wisdom, insight, Fear of Adonia is the BEGINNING of Knowlege. It contrasts it by stating that the FOOL despises wisdom and instruction (which is literally what Torah is)

The length of days, Increase in your finances, health, the blessing of children and grandchildren. Peace.... you should spend time in both Proverbs and the Psalms.... much is there.
 
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Open Heart

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You have 2 sons one is obedient and the other is disobedient.... their being obedient or disobedient does not change their standing.... they are still sons.
The prodigal son was "dead" to his Father.
 
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I have read the SOP and I am posting as a guest- just here for fellowship and to ask questions.

I am curious to know what someone who is MJ does to practice Torah?

I don't know what Torah is except that I think its the first few books of the OT.

If you believe the messiah has come, then sincerely I wonder what does Torah mean now and how and why does it edify or fill you up spiritually?

I have a sincere heart and am here to learn and not debate anyone.

Please feel free to share with me and help me learn.

I know Jesus was a jew, and I am drawn to that aspect.

Shalom and good afternoon u2spicy, I am glad I came across your question. First, the word "Torah" is a Hebrew word that has been traditionally translated in our English Bibles as the word "law" but "Torah" actually means "Teaching: The direction one is to take in life." The Torah is not a set of laws rather the Torah is the Father's instructions to us. The Torah is,therefore, His instruction in righteousness to us.

Second we find the Father's Torah instructions in the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy). The Torah was written by Moses and contains 613 instructions. To practice Torah there two main instructions we must keep. Those two instructions are as follows:

1)
“Hear, O Israel! Yehovah is our Elohim, Yehovah is one! You shall love Yehovah your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might” Deuteronomy 6:4-5 (NASB)

2) “You shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am Yehovah” Leviticus 19:18

All of the other instructions in the Torah are extensions of these two teaching us how to love Yah and our neighbor. To practice Torah all one has to do is read and study the Torah and keep those instructions that pertain to him or her. Remember, not all of the Torah instructions are for everyone to keep. What I mean is there are Torah instructions that pertain only to the judges, kings, and (Levite) priests of Israel. Unless you are a judge or a king or a (Levite) priest of Israel then you don't have to keep those instructions. There are also Torah instructions that are gender specific or specific to one's station in life (i.e. husband/wife, father/mother, man/woman, etc.).

The Torah instructions that pertain to: 1) the weekly Sabbath and annual Feasts of Yah, 2) clean and unclean meats, and 3) the 10 Commandments as enumerated in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 are universal Torah instructions. So to practice Torah means keeping all of the universal and other Torah instructions that pertain to each of us. I hope this helps you.

Baruch Hashem Adonai
David
 
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AbbaLove

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I am curious to know what someone who is MJ does to practice Torah?
My son believes that the best way one can express their love for YHWH with all their heart, mind, soul, strength and love for their neighbor as themselves is by first striving to abide by at least 200 of the commandments. He considers the letters of Saul of Tarsus to be more of a commentary. Messianic Judaism observes Moshe's Torah (AMAP) as given by the Breath/Spirit of Elohim YHWH (G-d) as relevant today as it was at the time of Yeshua and His Jewish Apostles.

One wonders IF the entire Ketuvei HaShalichim (NT) had originally been recorded in Hebrew (not Aramaic/Greek) by the Jewish authors, and then later translated to English IF Messianic Judaism would be more likely to accept the writings of Saul of Tarsus as given by the Breath/Spirit of Elohim YHWH (G-d).
 
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pat34lee

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are there any more blessings besides this one?

Deuteronomy28 gives both the blessings for keeping the law and
the curses which follow if we don't keep the law. They are still in
effect today. Being forgiven doesn't mean escaping the consequences.
 
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gadar perets

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Deuteronomy28 gives both the blessings for keeping the law and
the curses which follow if we don't keep the law. They are still in
effect today. Being forgiven doesn't mean escaping the consequences.
The curses began to be listed in Deuteronomy 27:15-26. Paul addresses those curses which are summed up in verse 26.

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law (Torah) are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. (A quote from Deuteronomy 27:26).
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that does them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Messiah has redeemed us from the curse of the law (Torah), being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangs on a tree:
Anyone who has ever broken a single Torah command under the Old Covenant brought the curse upon himself. Messiah Yeshua bought us back from the curse (redeemed us) by taking the curse upon himself. He then inaugurated a New Covenant in which there is no condemnation for those in him (John 5:24; Romans 8:1). That does not mean there are no consequences for breaking Torah. Our Heavenly Father chastens us in love when we sin, causing us to yield the fruit of righteousness (Hebrews 12:11).
The blessings and curses in Deuteronomy 28 were upon the nation as a whole (Deuteronomy 28:1). I don't see YHWH bringing those kinds of blessings and/or curses upon New Covenant believers.
 
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teresa

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"Torah" actually means "Teaching: The direction one is to take in life." The Torah is not a set of laws rather the Torah is the Father's instructions to us.

This makes it easier to understand, thank you.

There are 2 main instructions, which are to love god with all of your heart, soul and might, and to love your neighbor as yourself, and all of the laws stem or flow out of these two.

To keep Torah, I should abide by the instructions that pertain specifically to me.

As well as always practice the Universal Torah Instructions:

Keep the Sabbath, the annual Feasts of Yah, know what are clean and unclean meats, and keep the 10 Commandments as enumerated in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 .

Thank you for your kindness in breaking it down so that its not as hard to understand.
 
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gadar perets

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Are you preparing for Sukkot? We just had an awesome move of YHWH concerning ours. Hurricane Florence closed down the state park we host Sukkot at. We were scrambling to find an alternate site and began praying as a group. We now have a new feast site which has much better amenities than our previous site and it was supposed to cost many thousands of dollars more, but praise YHWH, we were able to get it for basically the same price as our old site. YHWH provides! Bless His holy name.
 
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visionary

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Thank you, please continue to inform me on the Torah.

do you keep all the laws in Leviticus too?
Laws of the temple pertain to the temple, and as such are not kept, as there is no temple. Laws pertaining to women do not apply to men. Laws regarding sacrificing, see Yeshua and thank Him. Laws pertaining to the priesthood, again think of Yeshua as our High Priest in the Heavenly Courts and thank Him. Work your way through the laws, and you will find that most of them you do for practicality, morally, cleanliness, healthiness.. or should for those reasons.
and is Torah the same thing as the Pentateuch?"
You have already received an answer for this question
are you claiming to be Jewish if you are MJ?
no I am gentile, part of the commonwealth of Israel, the sojourner, god fearer...
are you Jewish by heritage genetically or is it bc you choose to convert to being Jewish?
again.. no...still not jewish, just a believer in God and His Kingdom, His Messiah, His Sacrificial system, His Way, His Will, His Truth
If I am a gentile, but convert to Judaism or MJ, then do I call myself Jewish?
no.. no need
To become MJ must I first learn all the things one must learn in a synagogue?
no... in today's internet there is a vast number of avenues to learning.. Best pray and study scripture for yourself, .. after all, the bottom line is a relationship with Him
Please forgive my ignorance and pray for patience when answering my questions.
You are doing fine.
When I read the above posts, something inside of me lept with joy. I somehow knew it to be the truth when I read the scriptures and I'm covered with goosebumps, nevermind teary eyed.
Awww the Mount Sinai experience, when it all makes sense, the transformation when you are in harmony, and the blessings that come with it passes all understanding.
 
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visionary

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thank you so much everyone, there is so much to learn here. Personally, I am floored that I never knew that Jesus kept the laws himself, meaning he kept torah, correct?
Yes
I want to walk in the footsteps of my Lord.
That takes on a whole new meaning when you walk more in Torah.. it is awesome bringing you closer to Him than you ever have been before... The meaning "His Kingdom" takes on portions of your life you have not yet let Him into.
I am so deeply touched by this thread and the new knowledge that i am learning.. I feel like laying prostate on the floor, weeping, as I've never really then followed my Lord and lived like He did.
I just did not know the truth.
Awesome...You are going on the most exciting spiritual journey with Him, I felt like the prodigal child coming home to His open arms, when I first learned. It is a world apart.
Was Jesus a real Rabbi then?
and He did a lot of clarifying the things that the 'learned' men of His time on earth regarding the "weightier" matters.
Was he studied and learned in the Jewish laws and traditions?
Born and raised in it, but His ear was ever to His Father to reveal the deeper and purer level
Where would he have learned all of these things?
Blessed with an intimate relationship with His Father in Heaven, which we can to because He has opened up the Way for us to be like Him
Did he have a Jewish temple where he was taught?
He lived in Bethelem, Egypt, Nazareth and was not often in Jerusalem except for the feasts. In all likelihood, He attended Sabbath services in His hometown. As His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day (Luke 4:16, NKJV). Later, when He became of age to be the Rabbi, He often taught in synagogues, one of which was in Capernaum (Mark 1:21-28)
Would it be correct to call Him Rabbi?
absolutely...
why is jesus called yeshua?
It is His native tongue name He was known by as far as we can tell..
yeshuas-world-hebrew.jpg

On the left is the modern form of Hebrew and on the right is the 2nd Temple form. Yeshua would not have written His Name as it is seen in the left column. He would have written it as you see it on the right.
 
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