Allah is love conditional

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
According to the book, The Great Theft by kahaled Abou El Fadl, Allah's love is conditional, see page 133

References that he gives are:

koran

2:195
2:222
3:76
3:134
3:146
3:159
5:13
5:42
9:108
49:9
60:8
9:108
2:190
2:205
3:57
16:23
22:38
28:77
31:18
42:40
57:23
 

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
According to the book, The Great Theft by kahaled Abou El Fadl, Allah's love is conditional,

How conditional does this sound? It is from John 15, in which the apostle is quoting Jesus:
10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love,...
14 You are my friends if you do what I command.​
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Others, based on Quran, are people who:

guard themselves against sin (3:76, 9:4, 9:7)
judge fairly (5:42, 49:9, 60:8)
fight in God’s way (61:4)
purify themselves (2:222, 9:108)
turn much to God (2:222)
trust in God (3:159)
and are patient (3:146).

On the other hand, God does not love the person who is:

an unbeliever (3:32, 30:45)
arrogant (16:23, 4:36, 31:18, 57:23)
cruel (3:57, 3:140, 42:40)
unfaithful and ungrateful (2:276, 22:38)
exceeding the limits (2:190, 5:87, 7:55)
extravagant (6:141, 7:31)
mischief-maker (2:205, 5:64, 28:77)
treacherous (8:58, 4:107)
and exulting in riches (28:76)Quran on God's Love
God Loves and supports those who are:


Muhseneen - Those who do good
Muttaqeen - Righteous
Sabereen - Those who are firm and steadfast/patient
Muqseteen - Those who judge in equity
Mutehereen - Those who keep themselves clean
Mutawakaleen - Those who put their trust in God
Tawabeen - Those who turn to God constantly
Yuqateloona - Those who fight in God?s cause in battle array
Mumenoon - Believers


References
(1) 2:195, 3:134, 3:148, 5:93, 5:13, 16:128, 29:69
(2) 3:76, 9:4, 9:7, 2:194, 9:46, 9:123, 16:128
(3) 3:146, 2:153, 2:249, 8:46, 8:66,
(4) 5:42, 49:9, 60:8
(5) 2:222, 9:108,
(6) 3:159
(7) 2:222
( 8) 61:4
(9) 8:19

AND following are the qualities God does not love:


Mufsedeen Those who do mischeaf
Kuffar-e- ateem Those who are ungrateful and wicked
Kwan-al Kafur Those who show ingratitude
Mustakbereen Those who are arrogant
Kafereen Those who reject faith
Zalemeen Those who do wrong
Mutadeen Those who transgress
Mukhtalin Kafoor Arrogant boaster
Khaeneen Treacherous
Fareheen Those who exult in riches
Musrefeen Those who waste

References
(1) 28:77 , 2:205
(2) 2:276, 4:107
(3) 22:38
(4) 16:23
(5) 3:32
(6) 3:57, 42:20, 3:140
(7) 2:190, 5:87
(8) 31:18, 4: 36
(9) 8:58
(10) 28:76
(11) 6:141https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12151.0
 
Upvote 0

Daniel Marsh

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2015
9,748
2,615
Livingston County, MI, US
✟199,349.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved” (Ephesians 2:4-5).

"This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins" (1 John 4:9-10).Is God's love conditional or unconditional?

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

The Unconditional Love of God - Topical Studies

 
Upvote 0

Arthra

Baha'i
Feb 20, 2004
7,060
572
California
Visit site
✟71,812.00
Country
United States
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
I don't know if you have known this but there are four kinds of love according to Abdul-Baha:

There are four kinds of love:

The first is the love that flows from God to man; it consists of the inexhaustible graces, the Divine effulgence and heavenly illumination. Through this love the world of being receives life. Through this love man is endowed with physical existence, until, through the breath of the Holy Spirit -- this same love -- he receives eternal life and becomes the image of the Living God. This love is the origin of all the love in the world of creation.

The second is the love that flows from man to God. This is faith, attraction to the Divine, enkindlement, progress, entrance into the Kingdom of God, receiving the Bounties of God, illumination with the lights of the Kingdom. This love is the origin of all philanthropy; this love causes the hearts of men to reflect the rays of the Sun of Reality.

The third is the love of God towards the Self or Identity of God. This is the transfiguration of His Beauty, the reflection of Himself in the mirror of His Creation. This is the reality of love, the Ancient Love, the Eternal Love. Through one ray of this Love all other love exists.

The fourth is the love of man for man. The love which exists between the hearts of believers is prompted by the ideal of the unity of spirits. This love is attained through the knowledge of God, so that men see the Divine Love reflected in the heart. Each sees in the other the Beauty of God reflected in the soul, and finding this point of similarity, they are attracted to one another in love. This love will make all men the 181 waves of one sea, this love will make them all the stars of one heaven and the fruits of one tree. This love will bring the realization of true accord, the foundation of real unity.


~ Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 179
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Rajni
Upvote 0

Jane_the_Bane

Gaia's godchild
Feb 11, 2004
19,359
3,426
✟168,333.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
UK-Greens
Christians pay lip-service to their deity's supposedly unconditional love, but even the strict "sola fide, sola gratia"-crowd cannot ignore that there clearly IS a condition - and one that's considerably less ethical than the ones suggested for Islam here.

In the end, Protestant ideology holds that there's only one determining factor in trying to curry God's favor, one criterion that will separate the damned from the saved - and it has got nothing to do with being a decent person or even trying to be a decent person.

It's the party membership card. If you are a Christian, you are saved - no matter how rotten you may be as a person. The pardon voids everything. If you are not, to eternal damnation with you - even if you spent your life being the kindest, most loving person in existence without expecting any kind of reward.
 
Upvote 0

Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
Supporter
Dec 26, 2007
8,552
3,930
Visit site
✟1,210,344.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Single
“But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved” (Ephesians 2:4-5).

"This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins" (1 John 4:9-10).Is God's love conditional or unconditional?

“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16

The Unconditional Love of God - Topical Studies
I also believe that God's love is unconditional.

However, even in some bible verses, there's the suggestion that His love is conditional, based on a person’s belief.

Even the old favorite, John 3:16, seems to be of two minds on this:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only son..." (So far, so good, sounds very unconditional and very inclusive)

"... that whoever believes in him will have eternal life". (Well, that didn’t last long, now, did it? A very conditional finish to what was a delightfully unconditional start).
It's basically just another way of saying "God so loved the world that He’ll send you to hell if you don’t believe in Him." Gee thanks, God. Sounds great! :D

Now, I have heard it argued that God still loves even those who end up in hell. But what good is that going to do them at that point? Fruitless sentiment is fruitless. They're (allegedly) roasting eternally in hell / the Lake of Fire.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: ananda
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

habibii zahra

Well-Known Member
Nov 16, 2016
812
96
36
lebanon
✟27,368.00
Faith
Muslim
Marital Status
Single
According to the book, The Great Theft by kahaled Abou El Fadl, Allah's love is conditional, see page 133

References that he gives are:

koran

2:195
2:222
3:76
3:134
3:146
3:159
5:13
5:42
9:108
49:9
60:8
9:108
2:190
2:205
3:57
16:23
22:38
28:77
31:18
42:40
57:23
for us ALLAH's love is unconditional and those verse do not show that ALLAH's the is conditional..ALLAH loves everyone even sinful person he loves Christians jews and all people..he is so merciful kind and compassionate
 
Upvote 0

Jane_the_Bane

Gaia's godchild
Feb 11, 2004
19,359
3,426
✟168,333.00
Faith
Pagan
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
Politics
UK-Greens
for us ALLAH's love is unconditional and those verse do not show that ALLAH's the is conditional..ALLAH loves everyone even sinful person he loves Christians jews and all people..he is so merciful kind and compassionate
Until we get to the part where people's skin is burned off and then re-grown to prolong the suffering indefinitely.

Christians have the luxury of playing it down by claiming hellfire is a metaphor, and only *figurative* torment such as in God's absence, or sinners' guilt burning hot in the presence of the Almighty.

Not so in Islam. You've got your cosmic torture camp, making Auschwitz look kind by comparison.
 
Upvote 0

Monna

Well-Known Member
Feb 5, 2017
1,196
961
75
Oicha Beni
✟105,254.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It's the party membership card. If you are a Christian, you are saved - no matter how rotten you may be as a person.

Jane, you are right that there are some who call themselves christians who are as you describe. And there are others who aren't. On a parallel thread there is an on-going discussion on whether or not "eternal security" is scriptural.

For my part, I am not able to say who is "saved" and who is not; who "belongs" to God and who doesn't. It is not my responsibility to judge. God knows, and that's what matters. Beyond that I am accountable for myself. I am a Christian because I recognise that I was, and am in myself a rotten person, I have admitted this to God. In our justice systems we want criminals to confess their crimes so that we can feel justified in punishing them. God is rather different. His justice system sees confession of wrongdoing as the first step in cleansing and healing and restoring relationship, as well as the first "next step" to becoming all one was meant to be. Because I am basically a rotten person inside I have to regularly go through the process of confessing and healing. In most ways it is the same in most human relationships - a good marriage or partnership depends on regular application of forgiveness and reconciliation.

Christians have the luxury of playing it down by claiming hellfire is a metaphor, and only *figurative* torment such as in God's absence,

"burning" as the operative source of pain in "hellfire" is a sensation that is used to describe other feelings as well. Where God is absent people will burn with lust for one another, will experience the most extreme forms of loneliness, yet will burn with hate towards every other individual around them. The hate will come out in at least the form of burning rage. It will no doubt feel very much like hellfire. No love, no like, no hope, no light, no compassion, no emotional intelligence or empathy. And all the time the knowledge that this was the straightforward consequence of choices made in the here and now. It could have been different - mixed with an attitude that it is all God's fault and an overwhelming desire for revenge, but no sense of personal accountability. Some people might say that a physical hellfire would be preferable to this "figurative" torment.
 
Upvote 0