So all christians are perfect once saved? Its impossible to become a monster?
In a sense, they
are perfect, once saved. Every person who is born again is placed
in Christ, clothed in his perfect righteousness, and thereby stand before God justified and accepted by Him. But this is a forensic state of affairs, a
positional reality, for every believer, not necessarily a reality of their experience. The Christian life is the process whereby what is true of a believer positionally is more and more reflected in their daily living.
The true disciple of Christ has been indwelt by the Spirit of the God of the Universe. It is strange how little significance people give this fact. What has happened, I think, is that many people claiming to be saved are not and so give no evidence of the Holy Spirit within them. I don't mean speaking in tongues, prophecy, being slain in the Spirit and all that silly hyper-charismatic stuff, but the things the Bible tells us we ought to look for as evidence of the Spirit indwelling: Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, etc.; a hunger for the word of God; a new sensitivity to sin; love of the Christian brethren; victory over sin, and so on. Because the Spirit isn't in evidence in the lives of so many of those claiming to be saved, the belief that has settled upon Christians is that being saved, being indwelt by the Holy Spirit, is not a particularly transformative event. But those who have the Spirit of the Almighty Creator and Sustainer of the Universe living within them cannot be the people they once were, they are fundamentally altered and cannot, I believe, ever become a monster.
What if a christian who became a monster changed their life yet again and lived like Jesus, after all we repent and what not. Would you say they are not saved still? Thats the flaw in OSAS.
You can't make up hypotheticals that are so removed from reality and expect to come to legitimate conclusions about OSAS. Your odd imaginings do not serve as good ground for thinking out the ramifications of OSAS.
I also would assume you are perfect of course in terms of being a christian. You have never messed up once you were saved? To say you have never messed up would mean you are lying and thus you have now messed up.
What are you going on about here? Yikes! I have never asserted I was sinlessly perfect. There is, then, no lie I've told in this regard and therefore no mess up.
So stating one is a true christian (which is what you are doing) means you are uttering words that could come back around later in life and cause you to stumble hard when a trial hits.
I'm afraid this is just more of your imaginative extrapolating which has no weight outside of your own mind.
There are many scriptures I could throw at you but thats not really my thing. Becasuse anyone can throw a scripture and twist what it says or take it out of context.
And so? How do you know when someone is doing this? What hermeneutical standards do have by which to judge the legitimacy of a person's views on Scripture? Just because people can twist the truth doesn't mean the truth ceases to exist or is impossible to find. Just watch an episode of "Columbo" and you'll see what I mean.
So is it unreal or is it just to hard for you to answer it because you may be wrong about it? Seems your side skirting/redirecting to avoid it.
As far as I'm concerned, your hypothetical is just as I said it was. I am not obliged to answer to whatever kooky imaginings you are able to draw up in an effort to make your point.
How do you know this? Because you have not snapped? Have you had a family member murdered? Lost a child? Maybe went bankrupt? Prideful christians tend to talk the talk until something happens to them, then they learn the art of being humble.
This is just one long deflection from my questions and their underlying point. Will you answer my questions? Or continue to deflect and so concede my point?
You doubt it, but you also said OSAS is true. So Hitler didn't make it? And you can't say "He wasn't really saved then!" because again its wiggling out of truth.
??? Hitler wasn't a Christian. Surely this is starkly obvious to you. Where, then, is my "wiggling out of the truth"?
What do you think of the apostle "Doubting Thomas"? If we go by what you say then wasn't really saved because He still had doubts even after all he went through. Right?
What has this got to do with Hitler and whether or not I think he could be saved?
I gave you my answer:
"Why wait? Because we love God and so desire to serve Him here on earth as He has made us to do."
What about this answer is hard for you to understand?
If OSAS is true then it doesn't matter what we do on earth because death is a easy way to see God right?
See, this is why the SAL doctrine is so destructive. It has blinded you so thoroughly to the motive of love for God in living the Christian life that when it is offered to you as the motive for living for God rather than suicide, your response is to just ignore it entirely! Yikes!
I mean I know plenty of people who undoubtingly love the Lord that are near walk the walk and talk the talk who, if they thought it was possilbe, would kill themselves just to see Jesus sooner than later.
Yes, and? They don't suicide because? They love God and so desire to serve Him here on earth as He has made them to do.
Against the rules to even hint someone may not be saved.
My comments were issued with a general character. I made no specific reference to anyone. If the shoe fits, wear it. If it doesn't, don't.
I guess the difference between me and the few who believe in OSAS is I am humble enough to admit I am not perfect.
This is silly. I know of no one who holds to OSAS who thinks they are perfect. It is also rather ironic (and not a little hypocritical) to point to the pride in others so that you may point to the humility in yourself.
So if you assume anyone is not really a christian because they did something bad, then God will judge you the same and say "Remember when did that one thing......".
I have never contended for the idea that any sin of any proportion proves a person is not saved. That is not the OSAS view, or mine, at all.
A. A person that says they can be saved, but if they don't become perfect, then they were never saved begin with and go to hell.
or
B. A person who says they can be saved, but it may not mean they will be as perfect as Jesus was, but as long as they remain on the righteous path, they will see heaven. And then the you share with them things that open you wide to them so they see the love of Jesus.
I'd choose B. I see the A person as the sorty of person that lets say stands outside certain events and holds up signs saying "Your going to burn in hell you <nasty slang for the person!" then shouts verses at them. I do not see Gods love in those people who do that.
Strawman arguing and a false dichotomy.