ICONO'CLAST
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Yes...I see what you mean. The theological position is known as postmillenialism....yes, that is the direction I am coming from.
If you list your objections I would see if I can help with it.
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The Gospel
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If you list your objections I would see if I can help with it.
ICONO'CLAST
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I used to not agree with the position but continued study is pushing me that way.
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Christ said:"do not cast your pearls to the swine", these special understandings are the backbone of ones faith, and don't part with them like their small change. This presents a problem, cause I would like to share these riches, but I don't want to just throw them out there.
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LoveGodsWord
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Hi All, I am new here so very nice to meet you all.
This is an interesting topic by the OP. I think the problem is that many people cherry pick certain bible verses and say this or that is the Gospel. I believe that everything in the New Testaments comes from the Old Testament scriptures and the Gospel is every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4)
Why? Because in it you will find Jesus because Jesus IS the Word (John 1:1-3).
"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." (Isaiah 55:6-7)
Promise...
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
and...
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:1)
Interesting scriptures on the Gospel....
"The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Matthew 11:5)
"Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God." (Mark 1:14)
"Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her." (Matthew 26:13)
It is very clear from God's Word that the Gospel is Jesus and Jesus IS the Word of God!
Jesus says..
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4) we just need to seek Him and find Him.
God bless you all
This is an interesting topic by the OP. I think the problem is that many people cherry pick certain bible verses and say this or that is the Gospel. I believe that everything in the New Testaments comes from the Old Testament scriptures and the Gospel is every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matthew 4:4)
Why? Because in it you will find Jesus because Jesus IS the Word (John 1:1-3).
"Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon." (Isaiah 55:6-7)
Promise...
"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13)
and...
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:1)
Interesting scriptures on the Gospel....
"The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." (Matthew 11:5)
"Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God." (Mark 1:14)
"Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her." (Matthew 26:13)
It is very clear from God's Word that the Gospel is Jesus and Jesus IS the Word of God!
Jesus says..
"It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God." (Matthew 4:4) we just need to seek Him and find Him.
God bless you all
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yeshuaslavejeff
simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua
How about this one (below):
(and if Jesus says this, then whatever you are doing in obedience to Him, keep doing!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
> GREATLY REJOICE and LEAP FOR JOY because
your name is written in the LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE...
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Paul also says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing from the word of the Lord. Doing is according to the will of God, and takes understanding. From everyones indifference on scripture, it only reinforces my opinion that there is strong delusion on this Earth and it continues to wobble out of balance:
Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
Because if we do not pay heed to his Word, there is a curse that brings delusion or drunkenness:
Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Christ said it would happen and Paul confirmed it:
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
And Paul predicted this delusion in Thessalonians:
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Friend, finding anything in the bible is a blessing. Like a puzzle, one piece does not give you much to go by. The more pieces the better, (praise God), but use pieces that don't really fit and you could be endlessly lost.
And it is God who gives man the heart to seek him, and unless your called, be not deceived, there are many out there who derail and set you on the wrong course, and you have no idea how deceitful they are.
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Alithis
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I don't require help.
When Jesus returnes his enemies are beheading people and will cry out for the rocks to fall upon them and hide them...
People who are waiting for a heaven on earth are doing so because they love this world asnd are not willing to lay down their lives for the kingdom of God..
They just want the best of both.
They won't get either.
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Alithis
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Frightening isn't it...
And very tragic.
But of the many called...he says Few are chosen .
So who is chosen?......those who answer the call.
Many talk about the call
Discuss the call
Analyze the call
Have meetings about the call
Post on forums about the call
Get doctorates about the call
Hang certificates on their wall about the call.
Minister the call
Make a career out of the call
And even $profit from the call.
But few forsake this world and go and do what we the many are CALLED to do.
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Phantasman
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I understand all the "Angels of Light" people see. The Jews god.(YHWH) the Muslims god "Allah" (both from the fruits of Abraham). I just see the Father who has no name. Jesus never said he had a name. Nor called or taught that he had one. People create their god. Jesus said that he was of the Father.
YHWH and Allah both are physical gods, citing the things of mammon as rewards (slaying enemies, acquiring land, rewards on Earth, etc.). Gods Kingdom is not of this Earth. You cannot have two masters.
Paul says we battle "unseen forces" and never mentioned a named god.
Names mean nothing spiritually.
Names given to the worldly are very deceptive, for they divert our thoughts from what is correct to what is incorrect. Thus one who hears the word "God" does not perceive what is correct, but perceives what is incorrect. So also with "the Father" and "the Son" and "the Holy Spirit" and "life" and "light" and "resurrection" and "the Church (Ekklesia)" and all the rest - people do not perceive what is correct but they perceive what is incorrect, unless they have come to know what is correct. The names which are heard are in the world [...] deceive. If they were in the Aeon (eternal realm), they would at no time be used as names in the world. Nor were they set among worldly things. They have an end in the Aeon.-Philip
One single name is not uttered in the world, the name which the Father gave to the Son; it is the name above all things: the name of the Father. For the Son would not become Father unless he wore the name of the Father. Those who have this name know it, but they do not speak it. But those who do not have it do not know it.-Philip
If anyone is (wrong?) misled, it is those who worship the god whom Jesus said was a "liar and a murderer". The one who (physically) slays his own. Jesus was of a (true) God who, through spiritual truth, said to "love" your enemy. Not to slay them.
We see a difference in the word "love" which my God is. Show me the love of YHWY and Allah and I'll show you over and over a physical (spiritually unprofitable) god of mammon.
Your post proves that the Pharisee's (and Priests) live on.
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Isa 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
The judgment fire will be established in God's people (Earth). But who can dwell with the fire?
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
This judgment fire is what made it so hot during the early church with all the persecutions:
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
It was necessary for God in Christ to execute Judgment to reveal or manifest truth and peace.
Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
And Christ made a point to admit this power was given to Him:
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
I'm sure this is what Paul was referring to when He spoke of the doctrine of eternal judgment in Hebrews:
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And to those who stand with Christ after suffering through the fire of persecution will also stand in the judgment:
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
I leave you with this concept in these additional relevant scriptures:
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Lots to think about:
Hethatreadetit
The judgment fire will be established in God's people (Earth). But who can dwell with the fire?
Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Isa 4:4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
This judgment fire is what made it so hot during the early church with all the persecutions:
2Th 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
2Th 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
It was necessary for God in Christ to execute Judgment to reveal or manifest truth and peace.
Zec 8:16 These are the things that ye shall do; Speak ye every man the truth to his neighbour; execute the judgment of truth and peace in your gates:
And Christ made a point to admit this power was given to Him:
Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Joh 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
I'm sure this is what Paul was referring to when He spoke of the doctrine of eternal judgment in Hebrews:
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
And to those who stand with Christ after suffering through the fire of persecution will also stand in the judgment:
Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Dan 7:22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
I leave you with this concept in these additional relevant scriptures:
Isa 59:8 The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.
Isa 59:9 Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.
Isa 59:10 We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.
Isa 59:11 We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
Isa 59:12 For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;
Isa 59:13 In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
Isa 59:14 And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.
Isa 59:15 Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.
Isa 59:16 And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.
Lots to think about:
Hethatreadetit
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I'm sorry Alithis, the computer lost the first half of the reply I posted when I went back in to fix a mistake. Try again tomorrow.
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Karl.C
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Back in the 20th century someone translated the KJV into one of the Pacific island languages and submitted it to the Bible society for publication. Once funding was available the BS published it. Then the complaints rolled in...
The translation caused a huge fuss because when translated back into English it read "the pig" instead of "the lamb". The islanders had no idea what a "lamb" was, but in their society a pig was held in high esteem. In fact to be in charge of a pig sty was an illustrious profession that people fought over for the honour (crash would have gone the story of the prodigal son, and ditto the symbol of Christ as the sacrafical lamb).
In that culture, it was a huge compliment to be called a pig - pigs are hugely intelligent, immune to snake bite & fastideously clean if provided the best environment (they sun burn easily, which is why they cover themselves in mud. In survival mode, humans copy rhem.)
So the proverbial "pigs" and "dogs" deserve the pearls if they (the "pigs" and "dogs") are in your care...that is the Gospel message for most things. See below. (Also consider the Sermon on the Mount). In forums like this, everyone is in our personal care, at least until they shun us...
In the Gospels, Jesus dismisses a gentile woman when she approached him, effectively calling her a dog. But she accepts the description & so Jesus blesses her...
And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil. But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us. But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me. But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs. And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table. Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.(Mt 15:22-28).
In scripture there is a saying: Don't judge lest you be judged. The disciples of Jesus were constantly pushing people away, reflecting their social & religious prejudices. Jesus kept correcting them by example. He preached to all including those the self righteous considered "dogs" or "pigs". Better to copy Jesus than his disciples...
Throw the pearls to the swine, you might get brownie points from he who counts for being fearless. As for the "pigs" & "dogs" they may get indigestion if adverse to the message or attempts are made at force feeding, or the penny just might drop, and they'll inquire more...
That's the objective we should be pursuing. Although we need to be aware of God's intervention in some peoples lives. See Isaiah 6:10...
ps: I think "pigs" was used of the religious Jew, and "dogs" near on everyone else. Interestingly, it is the "dogs" that are depicted as being most receptive of him. John 8 tells us it was those Jews who believed in Jesus that he accused of wanting to kill him...
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QUESTIONS about POST#44: Please precisely DEFINE:
1.Eternal offering?
2. The Saints were sanctified by doing the will of God by faith.?
3. The second covenant ? is a commitment by Christ and His body to do the will of God forever or as the prayer says: Thy will it shall be done on Earth as on Heaven, and I believe that means forever.
4. This is the sacrifice of Praise, ?and as well was foreshadowed by the
5. Daily Sacrifice.?
1.Eternal offering?
2. The Saints were sanctified by doing the will of God by faith.?
3. The second covenant ? is a commitment by Christ and His body to do the will of God forever or as the prayer says: Thy will it shall be done on Earth as on Heaven, and I believe that means forever.
4. This is the sacrifice of Praise, ?and as well was foreshadowed by the
5. Daily Sacrifice.?
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