SDA: Moses Resurrected from the Dead

Dale · Jun 24, 2017

One of SDA founder Ellen White's more unusual claims is that God resurrected Moses from the dead, in Old Testament times.

"In consequence of sin Moses had come under the power of Satan. In his own merits he was death's lawful captive; but he was raised to immortal life, holding his title in the name of the Redeemer. Moses came forth from the tomb glorified, and ascended with his Deliverer to the City of God."

This claim is found in Ellen White's Patriarchs and Prophets, Chapter 43: The Death of Moses. (Kindle Location 7710-15)

The Deliverer is Jesus Christ. As EW explains in the same Chapter:

"But he [Moses] was not long to remain in the tomb. Christ Himself, with the angels who had buried Moses, came down from heaven to call forth the sleeping saint."

and

"For the first time Christ was about to give life to the dead. As the Prince of life and the shining ones approached the grave, Satan was alarmed for his supremacy." (Kindle Location 7696-7700)

In EW's conception, Moses resurrects in the Old Testament and Jesus resurrects in the New Testament. This certainly reduces the uniqueness of Christ, especially when Moses emerges from the tomb in a glorified body, and ascend to heaven much as Jesus did.

Another quote from the same Chapter:

"Moses was a type of Christ." (Kindle Location 7725)

Earlier in the Chapter, EW says that Moses shares the suffering of Christ.

"He [Moses] rejoiced that he had been permitted, even in a small measure, to be a partaker in the sufferings of Christ." (Kindle Location 7662)

Moreover, when Jesus ascended to heaven, EW assures us that it was Moses who opens the gates of heaven to receive Him.

"He [Jesus] saw the shining gates open to receive Him, and the host of heaven with songs of triumph welcoming their Commander. And it was there revealed to him [Moses] that he himself would be one who should attend the Saviour, and open to Him the everlasting gates." (Kindle Location 7662)

Ellen White obviously puts a lot of stock in Old Testament law, and her exaltation of Moses goes along with this. It looks like there is at least one other reason why she feels a need for a resurrection and ascension of Moses. The Transfiguration is one of the most significant events in the Gospels, described in Matthew, Mark and Luke. In the Transfiguration, Peter, James and John see Jesus talking with Moses and Elijah, two Old Testament figures long gone from this world. EW specifically teaches the doctrine of soul sleep, that when people die they are as dead as a doornail until they are resurrected for the Final Judgment. The Transfiguration is one of several verses that don't fit this doctrine. How could Moses occupy and exalted place in heaven and talk to the living Jesus in that capacity if he is still dead, awaiting the resurrection? The problem is solved by giving Moses his own special resurrection.

There is no doubt that EW had thought of this connection.

"Upon the mount of transfiguration Moses was present with Elijah, who had been translated. They were sent as bearers of light and glory from the Father to His Son."
Same Chapter. (Kindle Location 7717)

I don't find a resurrection or ascension of Moses in my Bible and I find Ellen White to be an unreliable guide to the Bible.

Quotes from Ellen White:
White, Ellen G.. CONFLICT OF THE AGES: THE FIVE BOOKS. Patriarchs And Prophets; Prophets And Kings; The Desire Of Ages; The Acts Of The Apostles; The Great Controversy (Timeless Wisdom Collection) Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.

bbbbbbb · Jun 25, 2017

I will add this to my growing list of peculiar revelations of Mrs. White.

fromtheearth · Jun 25, 2017

I did a study on Revelation recently and came across the below information:

In John's vision in Rev 4, there were 24 elders sitting in thrones around God. There is information to say that these elders are of human origin and not necessarily heavenly beings or angels which many scholars claim them to be. If you accept them as of human origin, then:

Matthew 27:50-53 describes a scene where "The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life".
Ephesians 4:8 says " When He ascended on high he took many captives and gave gifts to his people"

This could indicate a path for people of the OT to make up the 24 elders that are already waiting in Heaven for the saved. If this was the case, then it is certainly not far fetched to think that Moses would be among the 24.

I have seen many posts about Ellen White on here and while I haven't read much of her work, I know enough to know that:
1 - She has said that you should always put her word behind the word of the bible.
2 - There are many people who misrepresent her teachings and words in ways that reflect false prophecy.

I will gladly read and take in all of the writings of Ellen White and in many cases use them as teachings, but I will be sure to make my own determinations of the bible.

Dale · Jun 26, 2017

fromtheearth said:
I did a study on Revelation recently and came across the below information:

In John's vision in Rev 4, there were 24 elders sitting in thrones around God. There is information to say that these elders are of human origin and not necessarily heavenly beings or angels which many scholars claim them to be. If you accept them as of human origin, then:

Matthew 27:50-53 describes a scene where "The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life".
Ephesians 4:8 says " When He ascended on high he took many captives and gave gifts to his people"

This could indicate a path for people of the OT to make up the 24 elders that are already waiting in Heaven for the saved. If this was the case, then it is certainly not far fetched to think that Moses would be among the 24.

I have seen many posts about Ellen White on here and while I haven't read much of her work, I know enough to know that:
1 - She has said that you should always put her word behind the word of the bible.
2 - There are many people who misrepresent her teachings and words in ways that reflect false prophecy.

I will gladly read and take in all of the writings of Ellen White and in many cases use them as teachings, but I will be sure to make my own determinations of the bible.

Fromtheearth,

Welcome to CF, since you seem to be new here.

You raise some complex issues, including the 24 elders in Revelation. It has been suggested that they are male and female from the Twelve Tribes of Israel. That would make them the mortal souls, as to origin.

While we are talking about Revelation, take a look at this passage. It tells of the souls of martyrs who are in heaven BEFORE the Judgment, in other words, before the Resurrection that occurs later in Revelation.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
-- Revelation 6:9 NIV

This definitely contradicts the SDA doctrine of "soul sleep."

klutedavid · Jun 27, 2017

Dale said:
Fromtheearth,

Welcome to CF, since you seem to be new here.

You raise some complex issues, including the 24 elders in Revelation. It has been suggested that they are male and female from the Twelve Tribes of Israel. That would make them the mortal souls, as to origin.

While we are talking about Revelation, take a look at this passage. It tells of the souls of martyrs who are in heaven BEFORE the Judgment, in other words, before the Resurrection that occurs later in Revelation.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
-- Revelation 6:9 NIV

This definitely contradicts the SDA doctrine of "soul sleep."

Hello Dale.

Not as easy as you may think.

So by all of the above, we can conclude that in Revelation 6:9 it is the blood of dead Christian martyrs that cries out symbolically, from where it was shed: on the ground "under the (brazen) altar (of burnt offering)", which represents the cross, which is to say on the Earth, not in heaven. (Biblelight.org)

Dale · Jun 27, 2017

klutedavid said:
Hello Dale.

Not as easy as you may think.

So by all of the above, we can conclude that in Revelation 6:9 it is the blood of dead Christian martyrs that cries out symbolically, from where it was shed: on the ground "under the (brazen) altar (of burnt offering)", which represents the cross, which is to say on the Earth, not in heaven. (Biblelight.org)

Hello, David. I don't think we have exchanged views in some time.

It is clear that "given a white robe" means that they have arrived in heaven and are both made comfortable and recognized as pure and justified.

Benson Commentary:

<<And white robes were given unto every one of them — Lowman observes here, very well, that “this representation seems much to favour the immediate happiness of departed saints, and hardly to consist with that uncomfortable opinion, the insensible state of departed souls, till after the resurrection.” >>

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

<< The souls of them that were slain - That had been put to death by persecution. This is one of the incidental proofs in the Bible that the soul does not cease to exist at death, and also that it does not cease to be conscious, or does not sleep until the resurrection. These souls of the martyrs are represented as still in existence; as remembering what had occurred on the earth; as interested in what was now taking place; as engaged in prayer; and as manifesting earnest desires for the divine interposition to avenge the wrongs which they had suffered. >>

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

<< "a white robe" ... as a token of their innocence ... and of their purity and perfection they now enjoyed; as also of that spiritual delight and pleasure, which was unspeakable and full of glory, they now had in the presence of God and Christ; and in short, of that happiness and glory which souls in a separate state, before the resurrection morn, are partakers of; who besides the righteousness of Christ, comparable to fine linen clean and white, walk with Christ in white, in the shining robes of bliss and glory: >>

These commentaries on this passage are found at this site:
Revelation 6:11 Commentaries: And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

fromtheearth · Jun 27, 2017

Dale said:
Fromtheearth,

Welcome to CF, since you seem to be new here.

You raise some complex issues, including the 24 elders in Revelation. It has been suggested that they are male and female from the Twelve Tribes of Israel. That would make them the mortal souls, as to origin.

While we are talking about Revelation, take a look at this passage. It tells of the souls of martyrs who are in heaven BEFORE the Judgment, in other words, before the Resurrection that occurs later in Revelation.

9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters, were killed just as they had been.
-- Revelation 6:9 NIV

This definitely contradicts the SDA doctrine of "soul sleep."

Thanks for the welcome Dale. I am very new.

I have not studied enough to form my own opinion properly as yet, but I have read and listened to arguments that the 24 elders could be OT prophets or similar. This thinking would add at least give possibility of Moses having been resurrected wouldn't it?

I am 2/3 of the way through chapter 5 in my study, so I will come back and talk once I reach chapter 6. Looks interesting though and I haven't yet looked into the "Soul sleep" theory to date.

klutedavid · Jun 27, 2017

Dale said:
Hello, David. I don't think we have exchanged views in some time.

It is clear that "given a white robe" means that they have arrived in heaven and are both made comfortable and recognized as pure and justified.

Benson Commentary:

<<And white robes were given unto every one of them — Lowman observes here, very well, that “this representation seems much to favour the immediate happiness of departed saints, and hardly to consist with that uncomfortable opinion, the insensible state of departed souls, till after the resurrection.” >>

Barnes' Notes on the Bible

<< The souls of them that were slain - That had been put to death by persecution. This is one of the incidental proofs in the Bible that the soul does not cease to exist at death, and also that it does not cease to be conscious, or does not sleep until the resurrection. These souls of the martyrs are represented as still in existence; as remembering what had occurred on the earth; as interested in what was now taking place; as engaged in prayer; and as manifesting earnest desires for the divine interposition to avenge the wrongs which they had suffered. >>

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

<< "a white robe" ... as a token of their innocence ... and of their purity and perfection they now enjoyed; as also of that spiritual delight and pleasure, which was unspeakable and full of glory, they now had in the presence of God and Christ; and in short, of that happiness and glory which souls in a separate state, before the resurrection morn, are partakers of; who besides the righteousness of Christ, comparable to fine linen clean and white, walk with Christ in white, in the shining robes of bliss and glory: >>

These commentaries on this passage are found at this site:
Revelation 6:11 Commentaries: And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.

Hello Dale.

Thanks for your reply.

Though I don't disagree with what your saying, they will ignore it.

Regardless of any interpretation they will simply respond, that the book of Revelations
contains these symbols.

Dale · Jun 29, 2017

fromtheearth said:
Thanks for the welcome Dale. I am very new.

I have not studied enough to form my own opinion properly as yet, but I have read and listened to arguments that the 24 elders could be OT prophets or similar. This thinking would add at least give possibility of Moses having been resurrected wouldn't it?

I am 2/3 of the way through chapter 5 in my study, so I will come back and talk once I reach chapter 6. Looks interesting though and I haven't yet looked into the "Soul sleep" theory to date.

Perhaps a little history will put the idea in context. The idea of soul sleep emerged in US in the 19th century.

"How did the teaching of soul sleep and annihilation originate within Adventism? It actually came thru a Methodist preacher named George Storrs. In 1837 he read a tract written by one of his contemporaries, Deacon Henry Grew, from Pennsylvania."

"Storrs was drawn to the teaching both of soul sleep and annihilation because he believed that it better reflected his conception of the mercy of God."

"So the teaching of soul sleep emerged from 'Adventists' who had their origins in the Millerite movement. Interestingly, William Miller did not endorse the teaching of soul sleep and denounced it publicly ... However, Joseph Bates, James White and Ellen White espoused Storr's teachings, and when the break was made with the Millerites, by the formation of the doctrine of the Investigative Judgment, they took the doctrine of soul sleep with them. It was the Investigative Judgment doctrine that necessitated this belief in soul sleep for the newly-minted Adventist group. One could not have deceased going to Heaven before the Investigative Judgment was completed."

Source:
Gently Broken: Adventist Teaching On Soul Sleep

Dale · Jul 3, 2017

fromtheearth said:
I did a study on Revelation recently and came across the below information:

In John's vision in Rev 4, there were 24 elders sitting in thrones around God. There is information to say that these elders are of human origin and not necessarily heavenly beings or angels which many scholars claim them to be. If you accept them as of human origin, then:

Matthew 27:50-53 describes a scene where "The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life".
Ephesians 4:8 says " When He ascended on high he took many captives and gave gifts to his people"

This could indicate a path for people of the OT to make up the 24 elders that are already waiting in Heaven for the saved. If this was the case, then it is certainly not far fetched to think that Moses would be among the 24.

I have seen many posts about Ellen White on here and while I haven't read much of her work, I know enough to know that:
1 - She has said that you should always put her word behind the word of the bible.
2 - There are many people who misrepresent her teachings and words in ways that reflect false prophecy.

I will gladly read and take in all of the writings of Ellen White and in many cases use them as teachings, but I will be sure to make my own determinations of the bible.

You mention the appearances of the dead in Matthew 27.

Here is what the Teacher's Bible Commentary says about this.

<< It is important to notice what is said. These are not called resurrections, such as Jesus experienced. They simply "appeared" to many who knew them in Jerusalem and apparently, disappeared again. There is no suggestion that they continued to live on in a genuine resurrection from the dead."

Nashville, Tennessee: Broadman Press, The Teacher's Bible Commentary, 1972

ViaCrucis · Jul 6, 2017

Ancient tradition indicates at least some Jews believed that Moses, after he had died, had his body assumed into heaven, this tradition of the Assumption of Moses is referenced in the epistle of Jude where he mentions Satan and Michael having a contest over Moses' body.

Note, however, that this doesn't say Moses was resurrected, rather Moses' body was assumed directly into heaven after death.

-CryptoLutheran

mmksparbud · Jul 6, 2017

It is believed that this is when Moses was resurrected

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

ViaCrucis · Jul 6, 2017

mmksparbud said:
It is believed that this is when Moses was resurrected

Jud_1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.

But Moses wasn't raised from the dead. The tradition Jude refers to is the bodily assumption of Moses. Moses' [dead] body being taken directly into heaven.

-CryptoLutheran

mmksparbud · Jul 6, 2017

ViaCrucis said:
But Moses wasn't raised from the dead. The tradition Jude refers to is the bodily assumption of Moses. Moses' [dead] body being taken directly into heaven.

-CryptoLutheran

He died and was buried--and this is when he was resurrected. We do not believe in the spirit going to heaven and the body remaining in the grave. We believe in the resurrection of the dead---when Jesus returns, but in the case of Moses---he was denied entry into the promised land, but God had a better promised land to give him.

ViaCrucis · Jul 6, 2017

mmksparbud said:
He died and was buried--and this is when he was resurrected.

Again, nothing about Moses being resurrected in either Scripture or in the tradition of the Assumption of Moses. The Assumption of Moses is that Moses was assumed bodily into heaven after his death.

We do not believe in the spirit going to heaven and the body remaining in the grave. We believe in the resurrection of the dead---when Jesus returns, but in the case of Moses---he was denied entry into the promised land, but God had a better promised land to give him.

You're welcome to believe anything you want of course. But in the case of what the epistle of Jude is referring to, it is not a resurrection, but assumption.

I'm not arguing for or against this by the way. I'm merely pointing out what was a common belief at the time, and it's alluded to in the Epistle of Jude.

-CryptoLutheran

mmksparbud · Jul 6, 2017

ViaCrucis said:
Again, nothing about Moses being resurrected in either Scripture or in the tradition of the Assumption of Moses. The Assumption of Moses is that Moses was assumed bodily into heaven after his death.

You're welcome to believe anything you want of course. But in the case of what the epistle of Jude is referring to, it is not a resurrection, but assumption.

I'm not arguing for or against this by the way. I'm merely pointing out what was a common belief at the time, and it's alluded to in the Epistle of Jude.

-CryptoLutheran

I am explaining why we believe what we do-----"The Assumption of Moses is that Moses was assumed bodily into heaven after his death."-----uhmm----we call that a resurrection.

bbbbbbb · Jul 6, 2017

mmksparbud said:
I am explaining why we believe what we do-----"The Assumption of Moses is that Moses was assumed bodily into heaven after his death."-----uhmm----we call that a resurrection.

You might call it a resurrection but the standard definition of resurrection is as follows:

1a capitalized : the rising of Christ from the dead.
b often capitalized : the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment.
c : the state of one risen from the dead.

Resurrection does not include the ascension into heaven such as what happened with Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost. The resurrection of Christ was completed on the third day following His death and burial.

Thus, if one speaks of resurrection it simply means the return to life of the dead.

The concept of assumption is essentially the same as ascension. It is a very different process than resurrection.

mmksparbud · Jul 6, 2017

bbbbbbb said:
You might call it a resurrection but the standard definition of resurrection is as follows:

1a capitalized : the rising of Christ from the dead.

b often capitalized : the rising again to life of all the human dead before the final judgment.

c : the state of one risen from the dead.

Resurrection does not include the ascension into heaven such as what happened with Jesus Christ on the Day of Pentecost. The resurrection of Christ was completed on the third day following His death and burial.

Thus, if one speaks of resurrection it simply means the return to life of the dead.

The concept of assumption is essentially the same as ascension. It is a very different process than resurrection.

Whatever you wish to call it---he was dead. His body was revived from the dead and taken to heaven---We call it a resurrection (3. c above.)--you can call it whatever you wish.

bbbbbbb · Jul 6, 2017

mmksparbud said:
Whatever you wish to call it---he was dead. His body was revived from the dead and taken to heaven---We call it a resurrection (3. c above.)--you can call it whatever you wish.

Thanks. I am just trying to reach an understanding of exactly what the SDA does teach and believe.

ViaCrucis · Jul 6, 2017

mmksparbud said:
I am explaining why we believe what we do-----"The Assumption of Moses is that Moses was assumed bodily into heaven after his death."-----uhmm----we call that a resurrection.

Resurrection means no longer being dead.

mmksparbud said:
His body was revived from the dead and taken to heaven

And that's the thing. The assumption of Moses has nothing to do with Moses being revived from the dead. When Moses was assumed he was still dead.

-CryptoLutheran

SDA: Moses Resurrected from the Dead

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