Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

Are Jesus' Commandments opposed to God's Ten Commandments?

  • No Jesus taught in perfect harmony with the Father and the Ten Commandments

  • Jesus came to delete/oppose God's Ten Commandments

  • Jesus taught us to edit the Ten Commandments replacing some but not others

  • Jesus' commandments are based on Love - God's Commandments are not and are ended

  • I don't know - I have not given this much thought so far.


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1stcenturylady

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I don't think you agree.

Walking in the Spirit, would never opposed God's Word.

No, dear, you don't understand. Walking in the Spirit KEEPS God's moral laws, but not just the sin, but the iniquity behind the sin. We no longer have need for written laws we are always keeping with our new nature. We are dead to sin, and if we are dead to sin, we have no need of laws for those alive to sin.
 
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BobRyan

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Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Jeff and Bob, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest.

1 Cor 5 says Jesus our passover has been slain.

Any text that might be imagined to say "Jesus is our weekly Sabbath" would be true in Moses's day as well after all Hebrews 8:6-10 says Jesus is the one speaking at Sinai - speaking to Moses "face to face" according to God in Numbers 12.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 says the New Covenant writes the Law of God on the heart -- not "deletes the Law of God on the heart".

Rom 3:31 says that our faith "establishes the Law of God" not -- deletes the Law of God.

Jesus did not delete the weekly Sabbath memorial of creation at Sinai any more than He would do it today.

For all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before me to worship" -- specific action taken on that specific cycle.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Well Jeff and BobR, I see neither of you recognize the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Christian. You keep teaching law rather than becoming new creatures in Christ. The Jews had the law for hundreds of years. Did it make them holy? No! Jesus came to give us a new way. He gave us His Holy Spirit to live INSIDE us. God is in me, and you are trying to teach God to keep the law! Does He need the law, or is He righteous already?
 
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BobRyan

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Well Jeff and BobR, I see neither of you recognize the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Christian.

A creative false accusation.

You keep teaching law rather than becoming new creatures in Christ

You are teaching "either or" just when Paul teaches "both-And" for it is PAUL that says "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 while also writing "If anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation" 2Cor 5.

It is Paul that also reminds us that as New Covenant Christians - God has written His LAW on our hearts Hebrews 8:6-10 just as Christ gave that Law on Mt. Sinai.

In the Bible it is Both-AND.

. The Jews had the law for hundreds of years. Did it make them holy?

The Gospel gave them the new birth and the New Covenant wrote God's Law on their hearts.

It is MOSES and ELIJAH standing WITH Christ before the cross happened in Matt 17.

It is the OT saints upheld as our examples in Hebrews 11.

I will be sicking with the Word of God on this one.
 
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1stcenturylady

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A creative false accusation.



You are teaching "either or" just when Paul teaches "both-And" for it is PAUL that says "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 while also writing "If anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation" 2Cor 5.

It is Paul that also reminds us that as New Covenant Christians - God has written His LAW on our hearts Hebrews 8:6-10 just as Christ gave that Law on Mt. Sinai.

In the Bible it is Both-AND.



The Gospel gave them the new birth and the New Covenant wrote God's Law on their hearts.

It is MOSES and ELIJAH standing WITH Christ before the cross happened in Matt 17.

It is the OT saints upheld as our examples in Hebrews 11.

I will be sicking with the Word of God on this one.


Paul knows what I'm talking about, even if you don't.
Read Romans 6. You always stay in the beginning chapters where Paul is talking about the law, but never to where he says we are no longer under the law if we walk after the Spirit. Even though the law is holy, it could not change our nature. The Holy Spirit does, and makes us holy.
 
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1stcenturylady

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Did you so easily ignore Jesus -

Did you not know that Jesus is righteous !?

Yes, I know that Jesus is righteous. That was the correct answer to my question. So if God wrote the law, does He need it written down, forever before Him to be Holy, Himself? No. And if He is in me, and I walk in Him, obeying Him, do I need the law written down, forever before me either? NO!
 
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BobRyan

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Well Jeff and BobR, I see neither of you recognize the power of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Christian.

A creative false accusation.

You keep teaching law rather than becoming new creatures in Christ

You are teaching "either or" just when Paul teaches "both-And" for it is PAUL that says "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 while also writing "If anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation" 2Cor 5.

It is Paul that also reminds us that as New Covenant Christians - God has written His LAW on our hearts Hebrews 8:6-10 just as Christ gave that Law on Mt. Sinai.

In the Bible it is Both-AND.

Paul knows what I'm talking about, even if you don't.

In that Example - I am actually quoting Paul - you are simply making another false accusation.

. The Jews had the law for hundreds of years. Did it make them holy?

The Gospel gave them the new birth and the New Covenant wrote God's Law on their hearts.

It is MOSES and ELIJAH standing WITH Christ before the cross happened in Matt 17.

It is the OT saints upheld as our examples in Hebrews 11.

I will be sicking with the Word of God on this one.



=========================================

Read Romans 6. You always stay in the beginning chapters where Paul is talking about the law, but never to where he says we are no longer under the law if we walk after the Spirit.

Another creative false accusation?? - I have quoted extensively from Romans 6 and have an entire thread devoted to that chapter as we see at this link
Mar 21, 2016 #1

Where we see this Romans 6 post in the OP.


Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

==========================

Just as we see in this same thread
Romans 3:19-21 -- not under the condemnation of the Law.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the Law"

Romans 6 - what it truly means to be freed from sin.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

...
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,



Even though the law is holy, it could not change our nature. The Holy Spirit does, and makes us holy.

There is no "Law changes our nature" in any post that you quote from me -- nor in any post on this board. And we probably both know it
 
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1stcenturylady

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A creative false accusation.



You are teaching "either or" just when Paul teaches "both-And" for it is PAUL that says "do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31 while also writing "If anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation" 2Cor 5.

It is Paul that also reminds us that as New Covenant Christians - God has written His LAW on our hearts Hebrews 8:6-10 just as Christ gave that Law on Mt. Sinai.

In the Bible it is Both-AND.



In that Example - I am actually quoting Paul - you are simply making another false accusation.



The Gospel gave them the new birth and the New Covenant wrote God's Law on their hearts.

It is MOSES and ELIJAH standing WITH Christ before the cross happened in Matt 17.

It is the OT saints upheld as our examples in Hebrews 11.

I will be sicking with the Word of God on this one.



=========================================



Another creative false accusation?? - I have quoted extensively from Romans 6 and have an entire thread devoted to that chapter as we see at this link
Mar 21, 2016 #1

Where we see this Romans 6 post in the OP.


Rom 6
1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
..

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.

==========================

Just as we see in this same thread






There is no "Law changes our nature" in any post that you quote from me -- nor in any post on this board. And we probably both know it

Everything I say about the Spirit, you turn around and talk about the Law. The letter of the law kills, but the Spirit brings life.

Romans 7:6 "But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter."

2 Corinthians 3:5-7 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
 
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1stcenturylady

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And how many commandments of TORAH did JESUS keep perfectly ?

While Jesus lived, He lived under the law, so all. His death and resurrection brought forth the New Covenant.

"For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives."
 
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Everything I say about the Spirit, you turn around and talk about the Law.

1. The Law is written on the Heart under the NEW Covenant - and this is done by the Spirit.
2. The Law is kept by the saints - via the Power of the Spirit - Law keeping by the Saints and law breaking by those opposing God in Romans 8 as I am sure you will agree.

Notice the focus on the Holy Spirit when it comes to Law keeping in Romans 8?

He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

This is an incredibly "Spirit focused" text to get the response that it is not the Spirit but the LAW. Clearly the text I keep quoting is NOT presenting them in opposition to each other.

I think we all see that Bible detail clearly
 
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BobRyan

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While Jesus lived, He lived under the law,

And He was sinless. Obedient. Perfect. His life was an example of LAW KEEPING not rebellion against the Commandments of God.

(The actual point of this thread - BTW).

That means Jesus taught in perfect harmony with the Commandments of God - instead of teaching rebellion against them.

In Matt 5 Jesus condemns the teaching that is against the LAW of God -- HE condemns rebellion against God's Law AND condemns TEACHING others to do so - as well.

I think we can all see that point clearly in Matthew 5.
 
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I was reminded recently of this NEW Covenant Christian focused, post.

Can New Covenant saints afford to ignore this??

Rev 14:12 - "the saints KEEP The Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

1 John 5
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His Commandments are not grievous.



1 Cor 7:19 .. "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"


Rom 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this,
Thou shalt not commit adultery,
Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal,
Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Thou shalt not covet;

and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Lev 19:18)
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty


Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


Jer 31:
31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah
32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.
33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”


Heb 8
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3
19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31


1John 2:
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.


John says -
Rev 22:
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.(KJV)

Christ said

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.


Exodus 20
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

John 14
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10




====================================== if so then consider this -

Eph 6:2
2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise:

"First commandment" in WHAT unit of LAW ?? The unit that includes the Sabbath.

Ten Commandments spoken by Christ at Sinai - Ex 20. Heb 8:6-10

Rom 8
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

 
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When , in all eternity, did Jesus ever disobey, or ever rebel against YHWH, or ever do anything contrary to TORAH ?

Never, and under the New Covenant He made it possible for us too
 
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