Can a Christian lose his/her salvation?

Halbhh · Jun 24, 2017

Handmaid for Jesus said:
Neither in obtaining or in keeping our salvation. Great point.

Faith without works is dead.

Handmaid for Jesus · Jun 24, 2017

Halbhh said:
Faith without works is dead.

Who is the Savior?

Handmaid for Jesus · Jun 24, 2017

Good night everyone. :wave:

It has been interesting.

AntiVillain · Jun 24, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yes.
Otherwise, those saved would not have free will on earth, free will to serve God or
free will to follow Jesus.

Without free will,
well,
let's just observe that God values our free will,
He tells us to choose to follow Him, to obey Him,
instead of continuing in the devil.
He doesn't force the choice,
nor take our free will in completely willing obedience ,
willing to serve Him, our lives a living joyful obedient willing sacrifice.

Most "free will" arguments I hear, tend to devolve into victim-blaming.

At one point, my pre-OSAS anxiety drove me to actually decide I'd rather be a drone if it meant avoiding Hell-causing mistakes -- so much for verses like Matthew 11:30, then.

anna ~ grace · Jun 24, 2017

I don't see Salvation as a state based on faith and grace that simply automatically continues. But as a daily, living, dynamic, free-will as well as grace driven, humbling life-long walk with Christ. What many Protestants might call "sanctification", I identify as a part of, and inseparable from, our Salvation. It's a life-long journey fueled by grace, help, and mercy, which we did not deserve to enter into, but which we can also choose to gradually walk away from through continued sin, hardness of heart, lack of love, being unforgiving, proud, lazy, or disobedient. Imho a key word is " follow", and always has been.

Ron Gurley · Jun 24, 2017

This is a well-worn topic.

The weight of supporting Scripture for the doctrine of Eternal Security of the salvation of the true Believer is superior to the out of context snippets to the contrary.

SEE:

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/losing-salvation.8010090/

https://www.christianforums.com/threads/you-can-lose-your-salvation-through-apostasy.7785433/

Can True born again BELIEVERS lose their spiritual POSITION in Christ?

Can a Christian Lose His Salvation?

Willful Sin after Salvation and Eternal Security

ETERNAL SECURITY of the salvation of True Christ-followers.

Jesus taught and practiced FORGIVENESS OF SINS to believers...NOT loss of spiritual POSITION
Mark 11: 24-25
See ALSO: Luke 6: 36-38...Jesus: Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Jesus will never "..cast out " a true "sheep" ...believer.
John 6:35-40

Paul taught that: (NOTHING) ..."will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord...." Romans 8:35-39

John 10...Jesus the God-Man / and the Father hold you in theis HANDS!...NOTHING can "snatch" you out!

The TRI-UNE God by Grace through Faith has saved the Souls and Spirits of all true believers:
1. shown uttermost LOVE...John 13:1
2. keeps us to Himself.....John 28:30
3. presents us faultless in heaven...Jude 24
4. makes intercession to maintain our saved relationship...Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1
5. places us into the Body of Christ / indwelt by God the Holy Spirit...1 Cor. 12:13
6. seals us until the day of redemption...Ephesians 4:30

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel,
for it is the power of God FOR salvation to everyone who BELIEVES, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Once a spirit-led BELIEVER...ALWAYS a spirit-led BELIEVER. God does not take back His Ephesian 2 GIFTS!

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation — having also BELIEVED, you were SEALED in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Once a SEALED BELIEVER...always a SEALED BELIEVER. Once God gives you SPIRITUAL POSITION, He does not change it.

Once a son of God...Always a son of God

Once adopted into the family of God...Always adopted into the family of God

Once a sheep of the Good Shepherd...Always a sheep of the Good Shepherd (JOHN 10)

Once spiritually changed / "born again from above "...Always spiritually changed / "born again from above " (John 3 explained in Ephesian 2)

Once indwelt by God the Holy Spirit...Always indwelt by God the Holy Spirit

Once spiritually baptized into the Body of Christ...Always spiritually baptized into the Body of Christ

Once John 3 / Ephesian 2 saved...ALWAYS John 3 / Ephesian 2 SAVED

Once God performs His Loving works and gifts of salvation...GOD WILL NOT UN-DO THEM!...But He does FORGIVE SIN...NOT punish with the loss of SPIRITUAL POSITION.

2 Timothy 3:15
and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that
leads to salvation THROUGH FAITH which is in Christ Jesus.

Luke 6
47 Everyone who COMES to Me and HEARS My words and ACTS on them,
I will show you whom he is like:
48 he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid a foundation on "THE ROCK";
and when a flood occurred, the torrent burst against that house and could not shake it,
because it had been well built.
49 But the one who has heard and has not ACTED accordingly,
is like a man who built a house on the ground without any foundation;(SINKING SAND!)
and the torrent burst against it and immediately it collapsed,
and the ruin of that house was great.”

Once a BELIEVER is built on "THE ROCK"...ALWAYS will he stay built on "THE ROCK". God is your unchanging support.

Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord,
my rock and my Redeemer.

Psalm 78:35
And they remembered that God was their rock,
And the Most High God their Redeemer.

Karl.C · Jun 24, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Before this question is answered, the term “Christian” must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what “makes” a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation?

Sure thing. That is why scripture says...

1Ti 4:16 "Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Heb 10:36 "You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.

There is no such thing as "once saved, always saved"! Only the Simon Magnus types of this generation teach or believe such dribble!!!

Not even A.Paul took his own salvation as a given...

I [Paul] want to know Christ—yes, to know the power of his resurrection and participation in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, attaining to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. (Phil 3:10-12)

ChristianIssues · Jun 24, 2017

I believe that the simple statement by Jesus, in Luke 13:3, tells us that we can lose our salvation. Jesus said, "Unless you repent you will perish". The word "repent" in Greek is Present Continuous Tense meaning that Jesus actually said, "Unless you continue to repent you will perish".

So, if a Christians falls into sin and does not repent then he will perish.

aiki · Jun 25, 2017

frienden thalord said:
Most forget the letters were not written to unblievers. BUT TO BELIEVERS
let that one sink in abit..........
they were warning believers to remain IN CHRIST , not to fall away.
BELIEVERS...........the letters were written to BELIEVERS.
let that sink it real deep. And may all flee these man made doctriens

We all understand very well to whom the various letters of the New Testament were written. It makes not a whit of difference to what I've pointed out, however. It's...interesting how little engagement with what has been written by OSAS proponents there actually is from those on the SAL (saved-and-lost) side of this issue. There's been just a collection of vaguely dramatic, oblique - and somewhat pretentious - retorts.

nonaeroterraqueous said:
Let's take the parable of the sower. Both sides of this issue see their own views in it. I know I do. The person who believes that a person can lose their salvation points to the two-thirds of the sprouts that died as proof that a believer can lose their salvation. The person who believes that one cannot lose their salvation points to the seed on good soil and declares that the soil remained good, and the seed was destined to prosper. An avalanche of rocks never fell on the good soil, crushing half of the crops. The seed on the rocky soil was never transplanted. So, which one is right? If being "saved" means believing, then two-thirds of the seeds that sprouted lost their salvation. If being "saved" means being destined to hold onto their faith to the end, then all of the seeds on the good soil were saved and never lost their salvation. If being "saved" means going to Heaven, instead of Hell, then all of the seeds that yielded a crop yielded a crop, which is a reflexive statement that could never be wrong.

The way you've laid out how to understand the parable is not the only - or even, I think, the best - way to understand it. Jesus never once in explicating the parable of the Sower and Seed suggests that those who received the "seed" of the Gospel and then for various reasons never had it take root within them were actually saved. That's reading into the parable what isn't actually there. The first in the parable to receive the "seed" Jesus says never understood it at all and so it is snatched away by the devil (Matt. 13:19). This doesn't sound like a person who was saved. Not at all. The next person to receive the seed of the Gospel has an emotional response to it, but Christ says the seed did not take root in him and so when difficulty comes his way he immediately "stumbles." (Matt. 13:20, 21) Again, this doesn't sound like a saved person. The third person who receives the seed of the Gospel hears it, we are told by Christ, but has no other response to it. He doesn't understand what he has heard as the fourth and final person does. Instead, what he has heard is choked out of his life by the lure of riches and the cares of the World. Just going from Christ's description, there doesn't seem to be any good reason why we should think the third person in the parable is saved. The only one who has anything like a saving response to the seed of the Gospel is the final character in the parable who hears the word, understands it, and begins to bring forth corresponding fruit in his life. The parable of the Sower and the Seed doesn't appear, then, to have anything at all to tell us about whether or not a person can lose their salvation.

aiki · Jun 25, 2017

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Here, again, clear teaching from Scripture that a person's works do not affect their eternal redemption by God. As I have said many times on this site, our works do not save us and they do not keep us saved. The apostle Paul agrees. One's works can be entirely lost to the fire of God's testing and one can still be saved. This totally demolishes the notion that one's works are vital to the retention of their salvation. Good works are the fruit of salvation not the lifeblood of it.

aiki · Jun 25, 2017

ChristianIssues said:
I believe that the simple statement by Jesus, in Luke 13:3, tells us that we can lose our salvation. Jesus said, "Unless you repent you will perish". The word "repent" in Greek is Present Continuous Tense meaning that Jesus actually said, "Unless you continue to repent you will perish".

So, if a Christians falls into sin and does not repent then he will perish.

And yet not one English translation of the Bible renders "repent" in the present continuous way in which you say Jesus actually said it. Why not? Did all the Greek scholars who have been involved in creating the various modern English translations of the Bible not understand the tense in which "repent" is used in Luke 13:3? I very much doubt it. Instead, what seems much more likely is that you don't understand something all those Greek scholars did about how properly to render "repent" in the verse.

mark kennedy · Jun 25, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Before this question is answered, the term “Christian” must be defined. A “Christian” is not a person who has said a prayer, or walked down an aisle, or been raised in a Christian family. While each of these things can be a part of the Christian experience, they are not what “makes” a Christian. A Christian is a person who has, by faith, received and fully trusted in Jesus Christ as the only Savior (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-9).

So, with this definition in mind, can a Christian lose salvation? Perhaps the best way to answer this crucially important question is to examine what the Bible says occurs at salvation, and to study what losing salvation would therefore entail. Here are a few examples:

A Christian is a new creation. “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!” (2 Corinthians 5:17). This verse speaks of a person becoming an entirely new creature as a result of being “in Christ.” For a Christian to lose salvation, the new creation would have to be canceled and reversed.

A Christian is redeemed. “For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers, but with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:18-19). The word “redeemed” refers to a purchase being made, a price being paid. For a Christian to lose salvation, God Himself would have to revoke His purchase that He paid for with the precious blood of Christ.

A Christian is justified. “Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ” (Romans 5:1). To “justify” means to “declare righteous.” All those who receive Jesus as Savior are “declared righteous” by God. For a Christian to lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and “un-declare” what He had previously declared.

A Christian is promised eternal life. “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life” (John 3:16). Eternal life is a promise of eternity (forever) in heaven with God. God promises, “Believe and you will have eternal life.” For a Christian to lose salvation, eternal life would have to be taken away. If a Christian is promised to live forever, how then can God break this promise by taking away eternal life?

A Christian is guaranteed glorification. “And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified” (Romans 8:30). As we learned in Romans 5:1, justification is declared at the moment of faith. According to Romans 8:30, glorification is guaranteed for all those whom God justifies. Glorification refers to a Christian receiving a perfect resurrection body in heaven. If a Christian can lose salvation, then Romans 8:30 is in error, because God could not guarantee glorification for all those whom He predestines, calls, and justifies.

Many more illustrations of what occurs at salvation could be shared. Even these few make it abundantly clear that a Christian cannot lose salvation. Most, if not all, of what the Bible says happens to us when we receive Jesus Christ as Savior would be invalidated if salvation could be lost. Salvation cannot be reversed. A Christian cannot be un-newly created. Redemption cannot be undone. Eternal life cannot be lost and still be considered eternal. If a Christian can lose salvation, God would have to go back on His Word and change His mind—two things that Scripture tells us God never does.

The most frequent objections to the belief that a Christian cannot lose salvation are 1) What about those who are Christians and continually live an immoral lifestyle? 2) What about those who are Christians but later reject the faith and deny Christ? The problem with these two objections is the phrase “who are Christians.” The Bible declares that a true Christian will not live a continually immoral lifestyle (1 John 3:6). The Bible declares that anyone who departs the faith is demonstrating that he never truly was a Christian (1 John 2:19). Therefore, neither objection is valid. Christians do not continually live immoral lifestyles, nor do they reject the faith and deny Christ. Such actions are proof that they were never redeemed.

No, a Christian cannot lose salvation. Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). Nothing can remove a Christian from God’s hand (John 10:28-29). God is both willing and able to guarantee and maintain the salvation He has given us. Jude 24-25, “To Him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.”

Source:Can a Christian lose salvation? in Ask a Question Get an Answer Forum

Quasa92

They 2ay you ask and explain the question the answer is no. Not because you can convert and then willfully sin but because the new nature is inescapable

ChristianIssues · Jun 25, 2017

aiki said:
The parable of the Sower and the Seed doesn't appear, then, to have anything at all to tell us about whether or not a person can lose their salvation.

I believe that Luke 8:12-13 show that a Christian can lose his salvation.

V.12 says that the devil took the seed away so that they may not believe and be saved. From this we see that Jesus means that one must believe to be saved. I'm sure we all agree on that.

V.13 then says that some received the word and believed for a while. Considering that anyone who believes is saved then this verse can only mean that believing for a while means saved for a while.

Many try to refute this conclusion by saying that believe in v.12 does not mean the same as it means in v.13 which, of course, is not a reasonable statement.

ChristianIssues · Jun 25, 2017

aiki said:
And yet not one English translation of the Bible renders "repent" in the present continuous way in which you say Jesus actually said it. Why not? Did all the Greek scholars who have been involved in creating the various modern English translations of the Bible not understand the tense in which "repent" is used in Luke 13:3? I very much doubt it. Instead, what seems much more likely is that you don't understand something all those Greek scholars did about how properly to render "repent" in the verse.

First up, it does not matter how the English translate the Greek. What counts is what the Holy Spirit said in Greek and, in Luke 13:3, He said "repent" in Present Tense. There are many mistranslations of tenses in our Bibles.

Secondly, in the KJV, the word ending "eth" signifies Present Continuous Tense. Luke 15:10 KJV gives us an example of "repent" in Present Tense: "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth".

As I said, the "eth" signifies Present Tense in Old English. We don't have that in modern English.

God bless,
Mick

Emmy · Jun 25, 2017

Dear Quasar92. A Christian can only lose his or her Salvation, if we say definitely NO to our Saviour who died that we might live. Jesus told us in Matthew22: 35-40: The first Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. Verse 40:
The Bible tells us: Love God and love our neighbour, how do we do this? We all know How to love God, with heart, soul and mind, and how do we love our neighbour? always treat all we know and all we meet, as we would like to be treated, with love and compassion. Love is very catching, and with love we will enjoy life as God wants us to enjoy it. We ask for love: Matthew 7: 7-10: We ask for and thank God for Love and Joy, then we thank God and live a happy life. Let us all give up our selfish wishes and wants, and Love and care for all we meet, that is God`s Will for us. God will Bless us richly. I say this with love, And send greetings Quasar, from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

Waggles · Jun 25, 2017

Quasar92 said:
No, a Christian cannot lose salvation.

You are simply confusing faithfulness as the definition of being Christian. Becoming a Christian is the
result of hearing the gospel, believing and obedience:
1) repentance from dead works;
2) water baptism by full immersion;
3) Holy Spirit baptism - God dwelling within a convert.

But this is only the beginning. Read the epistles.
But Jesus himself spoke of our failings and the weaknesses of the flesh - Jesus speaks of those not enduring read the parable of the sower ...
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and anon with
joy receives it;
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution
arises because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world,
and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
Matthew 13:

18 And these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word,
19 And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
Mark 4:18-19
this verse definitely refers to the loss suffered by a believer after a period of time - taking their eyes
off the Lord and the Word of God.

8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor
unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was
purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye
do these things, ye shall never fall:
2 Peter 1:8-10

Karl.C · Jun 25, 2017

aiki said:
And yet not one English translation of the Bible renders "repent" in the present continuous way in which you say Jesus actually said it. Why not? Did all the Greek scholars who have been involved in creating the various modern English translations of the Bible not understand the tense in which "repent" is used in Luke 13:3? I very much doubt it. Instead, what seems much more likely is that you don't understand something all those Greek scholars did about how properly to render "repent" in the verse.

"Repent" in English implies continuous action. The dictionary defines it as "feel or express sincere regret or remorse about one's wrongdoing or sin", now a flip floppy disposition is not repentance!

joseph akinrinola · Jun 25, 2017

I believed salvation is a one time contract between man and God through Jesus. If for any reason a Christian commits sin that contract is put on hold until such person returs to Christ. If at death or rapture he or she never returned it is then such contract(salvation) is terminated.

Quasar92 · Jun 25, 2017

ChristianIssues said:
I believe that the simple statement by Jesus, in Luke 13:3, tells us that we can lose our salvation. Jesus said, "Unless you repent you will perish". The word "repent" in Greek is Present Continuous Tense meaning that Jesus actually said, "Unless you continue to repent you will perish".

So, if a Christians falls into sin and does not repent then he will perish.

That situation with the Galations ocurred BEFORE the New Covenant came into effect, through the shed blood of Jesus on a cross. See the following for another statement by Jesus:

Jn.10:27 "My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than allc]">[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 25, 2017

joseph akinrinola said:
I believed salvation is a one time contract between man and God through Jesus. If for any reason a Christian commits sin that contract is put on hold until such person returs to Christ. If at death or rapture he or she never returned it is then such contract(salvation) is terminated.

According to the statement by Jesus, in my post #139, once He has provided the salvation you sought from Him, He will never put it on "hold." His BEMA judgment we will all go through, does not pertain t our salvation, but rather, to what rewards we may have received or lost during our lifetime. Review the following:

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames."

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