The Double Message of Eternal Security.

ToBeLoved

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And what shall we do with the ones that says there is not? We also find Jesus speaking against it many times....the "Goats" for instance, that were caught off guard, and that's just one of many.

Do you really want to re argue this one? :)
Is a goat a sheep or is a goat a goat?

Or can sheep become goats or goats become sheep?
 
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Thedictator

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Many times when I discuss Eternal Security, I hear two different messages. One message says a true Christian is defined by loving Jesus and by being more Christ like. Yet, another message within Eternal Security says you can die in the unrepentant sin of lying, or the sin of unforgiveness, etc. and still be saved.

What doth thou sayeth?


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Eternal Security is Biblical but "once saved always saved is not.
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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Oh...no...we can be safe in our free will. We just need to decide that's what we want, and do it.

And then hope that over the course of eternity you never change your mind for even a second, O fickle human. And don't tell me that God will keep you from changing, because that's not free will.
 
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Alithis

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John 5:24, John 10:27-30, Romans 8:35-39, Philippians 1:6, 1 Corinthians 1:8
Ahh so ..no scripture ..just sentences plucked out and peiced together to say what you like to hear..bit like an anonymous ransom note ;)
 
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stuart lawrence

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Salvation brings about the good works, but good works don't bring about (or maintain) the salvation. That's how I've always understood it, anyway.
Indeed:
Rom 6:14, rom3:31, rom1:17, rom3:20, rom3:21&22, rom10:4, rom7:4-6, gal2:19, gal2:21, gal3:19, gal3:23-25, gal5:4&5, eph2:8&9, eph2:15, phil3:9, col1:22&23, heb9:26, heb10:10, heb10:14, gal4:21
 
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ToBeLoved

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I have been arguing against Eternal Security long before I joined this forum. I have talked on two other forums for many years against the evil of Eternal Security. But if you must know, this is not a competition of who knows more. This is a matter of what truth of what God's Word says.

May I suggest you re-read the following verses.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." (James 2:17).
"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
"If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, "
(1 Timothy 6:3-4).
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
"If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha." (1 Corinthians 16:22).
"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
"Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
"For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Romans 6:1-2).
"...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17).


Verses on the Error of Christians saying they cannot walk uprightly:

Jesus says,

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 5:16).

Jesus also says,

"You give glory to my Father when you produce a lot of fruit and therefore show that you are my disciples." (John 15:8 GW).

And Peter says,

"Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world." (1 Peter 2:12 NLT).

Paul says,

"That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" (Philippians 2:15).


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The problem is that this very, very, very long list of verses none of these speak about directly about salvation?

If you are going to try to say every verse against sin or evil is against eternal security than that is not correct.

So where are your verses that talk about loss of salvation and then put them in context.

Even an atheist can pull verses out of context. It's not hard. What is hard is teaching what God's Word says.
 
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Eternal Security is Biblical but "once saved always saved is not.

Eternal Security is another name for Once Saved Always Saved. You cannot change the terms that have already been established. To redefine the term is not a good thing because you have to clarify what you mean (every time you use the term "Eternal Security" so as not to confuse people).


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The problem is that this very, very, very long list of verses none of these speak about directly about salvation?

If you are going to try to say every verse against sin or evil is against eternal security than that is not correct.

So where are your verses that talk about loss of salvation and then put them in context.

Even an atheist can pull verses out of context. It's not hard. What is hard is teaching what God's Word says.

But the Eternal Security Proponent is saying that a person can be immoral like an atheist on some level and still be saved by having a mere belief on Jesus.

Now what is confusing and deceptive is that sometimes the Eternal Security Proponent may say we are to be more Christ like on the one hand and yet on the other hand they say we can sin and still be saved and we will not stop sinning in this life. Some say they can sin 24/7 and are saved. Some say you can commit suicide and still be saved. They cannot make up their mind on what they are saying. They contradict themselves.

Eternal Security puts out two messages that conflicts with itself. On one hand Eternal Security believers say you are to be holy and then on the other hand they say you can sin and still be saved.

This is clearly wrong because the Bible talks about how we are to be distinct from the world by righteous actions. There is no compromise on doing good. If one is to be holy, then that should be a consistent teaching in everything they say. We are to lead every thought captive to Christ.

Anyways, please give less opinion and more Scripture to prove your case in what you are saying in regards to the verses I posted. Thank you.




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Is a goat a sheep or is a goat a goat?

Or can sheep become goats or goats become sheep?

God does not predetermine some to be sheep and some to be goats.

A person is a goat or a sheep by their own behavior. Read Matthew 25 and John 10. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow Him.


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ToBeLoved

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But the Eternal Security Proponent is saying that a person can be immoral like an atheist on some level and still be saved by having a mere belief on Jesus.
This is a great example of how little you understand the issue at its core. Why and how you can go on and one never addressing the core things because you would rather not deal with the deeper theology, which is why you list 20 verses, instead of addressing main points.
 
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ToBeLoved

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God does not predetermine some to be sheep and some to be goats.

A person is a goat or a sheep by their own behavior. Read Matthew 25 and John 10. Jesus says his sheep know his voice and follow Him.


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Please address the post and the question posed?

Your wandering off into your own theology doesn't address the post. Thanks
 
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This is a great example of how little you understand the issue at its core. Why and how you can go on and one never addressing the core things because you would rather not deal with the deeper theology, which is why you list 20 verses, instead of addressing main points.

Again, in regards to the verses I posted: Well, either address the verses I posted with Scripture or move on.

As for the two messages preached within Eternal Security: What goes through your mind when you think about that? Does it not appear deceptive of the Eternal Security Proponent to say to folks that we are to be more Christ like when that really is not the case?


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Please address the post and the question posed?

Your wandering off into your own theology doesn't address the post. Thanks

I am correcting your error that is loaded within your question that is false. The Scripture I posted actually does that if you were to reread them again carefully.


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If you don't provide verses (to the Scripture I posted) or talk about the two messages that Eternal Security preaches (that conflicts with itself), then I think it is time for you to move on.


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ToBeLoved

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Again, in regards to the verses I posted: Well, either address the verses I posted with Scripture or move on.

As for the two messages preached within Eternal Security: What goes through your mind when you think about that? Does it not appear deceptive of the Eternal Security Proponent to say to folks that we are to be more Christ like when that really is not the case?


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When you don't deal with the main issues and say what OSAS proponents believe and it is false. Maybe you need to stop posting verses and find out the facts. Unless you like to hear what you write for self gratification. Then of course that person is posting for self. Nothing to do with the core tenants of theology.
 
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When you don't deal with the main issues and say what OSAS proponents believe and it is false. Maybe you need to stop posting verses and find out the facts. Unless you like to hear what you write for self gratification. Then of course that person is posting for self. Nothing to do with the core tenants of theology.

I am speaking from experience of my many dealings with Eternal Security Proponents over my countless discussions with them over the past 5 years. There are different degrees or levels to Eternal Security. Most of them justify sin. Even some who claim to be against Eternal Security also will seek to justify sin, too. I know the origin and history of Eternal Security. It started in the Garden with the devil saying to Eve, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).


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