Grace vs. Works

Haipule

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I am so sick of this ages old argument!

charis translated "grace" is the koinE GREEK word = beauty, poise, eloquence, gracefulness, charm, etc, and implies favor for same. These ideas are imported from the Hebrew. It is a general word not specific! Its etymology is from the verb chairO usually translated "rejoice". Therefore, charis implies joy, favor and can mean to thrive joyfully! And that, right here, right now!

Did God find beauty in the eyes of Noah, or English "grace"? Did Jesus come full of poise, eloquence, gracefulness, charm and truth? Or anyone's idea of "grace" and truth?

ergon translated "works" is the koinE GREEK word = employment-performance and that, right here, right now! Are you the employee of the month? Or, are you a "Dave"?
Paul said, "don't ergon, don't eat!"

Now, the GREEK noun sOtEria translated "salvation" means: deliverance, rescue, save, make whole, keep safe and sound right, etc, here, right now! It is a general word not specific!It never refers to post-reform "salvation"(man centered reform theology) nor, pre-reform "justification"(man centered Roman Catholic theology).

The GREEK verb sOzO(usually passive: sotia) translated "saved" means: to deliver, to rescue, to save, to make whole, to keep safe and sound, etc, right here, right now. It is a general word and not specific! It is a verb and not a noun! You cannot call yourselves "saved" because "saved" is a verb and not a noun!

The GREEK noun pistis translated "faith" means, or refers to: that which you truize, place your confidence in.

Somehow, nearly 2,000yrs later, the Gurus of theology managed to convince us that "saved" is a noun and "faith" is a verb! "Are you saved?" "Believe!" They are BassAckwords!

There is absolutely no idea in the Hebrew or Greek, in spite of the Gurus, of a when you die: "how to have the golden ticket to heaven complete with the fire insurance!"

The GREEK noun ouranos translated "heaven" means: sky and its figurative usage refers to your potential, right here, right now, authoritative up position. Same in the Hebrew.

The GREEK noun gehenna translated "hell" means, and refers to: a burning trash heap outside and south of the city of Jerusalem. A place you will find yourself, right here, right now, when your self directed life completely sucks! Same in the Hebrew but means your life is "in the pits"!

The GREEK noun euaggelion translated "gospel" means: well/beneficial-message and refers to any message beneficial to the hearer. Paul called his entire book of Romans his euaggelion.

We as Christians are here, and now, to be a beautiful, hard working people. To be successful, right here, right now, in the zOE-life of God's promised abundance having been supplied everything necessary. That our names will be found in the "Lambs Book of Life". That we might even wear the "Crown of Life" and have it for casting. And all this, through our followship of the Great Shepherd. Through His faith, the God-Breathed Scriptures. Living in His hope for us, the God-Breathed Scriptures. Manifesting His love. Seeking His righteousness in the all-things He has made for us and gave us to do. To this end--that we may stand with Him as shiny people in His glory being witnesses and a testimony to the life of His promise!

To be trustworthy ones of God kickin butt and not a bunch of lame "believers" continuing to get our butts kicked!

So-be-it!(amEn)
 
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Soyeong

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I am so sick of this ages old argument!

charis translated "grace" is the koinE GREEK word = beauty, poise, eloquence, gracefulness, charm, etc, and implies favor for same. These ideas are imported from the Hebrew. It is a general word not specific! Its etymology is from the verb chairO usually translated "rejoice". Therefore, charis implies joy, favor and can mean to thrive joyfully! And that, right here, right now!

Did God find beauty in the eyes of Noah, or English "grace"? Did Jesus come full of poise, eloquence, gracefulness, charm and truth? Or anyone's idea of "grace" and truth?

ergon translated "works" is the koinE GREEK word = employment-performance and that, right here, right now! Are you the employee of the month? Or, are you a "Dave"?
Paul said, "don't ergon, don't eat!"

Now, the GREEK noun sOtEria translated "salvation" means: deliverance, rescue, save, make whole, keep safe and sound right, etc, here, right now! It is a general word not specific!It never refers to post-reform "salvation"(man centered reform theology) nor, pre-reform "justification"(man centered Roman Catholic theology).

The GREEK verb sOzO(usually passive: sotia) translated "saved" means: to deliver, to rescue, to save, to make whole, to keep safe and sound, etc, right here, right now. It is a general word and not specific! It is a verb and not a noun! You cannot call yourselves "saved" because "saved" is a verb and not a noun!

The GREEK noun pistis translated "faith" means, or refers to: that which you truize, place your confidence in.

Somehow, nearly 2,000yrs later, the Gurus of theology managed to convince us that "saved" is a noun and "faith" is a verb! "Are you saved?" "Believe!" They are BassAckwords!

There is absolutely no idea in the Hebrew or Greek, in spite of the Gurus, of a when you die: "how to have the golden ticket to heaven complete with the fire insurance!"

The GREEK noun ouranos translated "heaven" means: sky and its figurative usage refers to your potential, right here, right now, authoritative up position. Same in the Hebrew.

The GREEK noun gehenna translated "hell" means, and refers to: a burning trash heap outside and south of the city of Jerusalem. A place you will find yourself, right here, right now, when your self directed life completely sucks! Same in the Hebrew but means your life is "in the pits"!

The GREEK noun euaggelion translated "gospel" means: well/beneficial-message and refers to any message beneficial to the hearer. Paul called his entire book of Romans his euaggelion.

We as Christians are here, and now, to be a beautiful, hard working people. To be successful, right here, right now, in the zOE-life of God's promised abundance having been supplied everything necessary. That our names will be found in the "Lambs Book of Life". That we might even wear the "Crown of Life" and have it for casting. And all this, through our followship of the Great Shepherd. Through His faith, the God-Breathed Scriptures. Living in His hope for us, the God-Breathed Scriptures. Manifesting His love. Seeking His righteousness in the all-things He has made for us and gave us to do. To this end--that we may stand with Him as shiny people in His glory being witnesses and a testimony to the life of His promise!

To be trustworthy ones of God kickin ass and not a bunch of lame "believers" continuing to get our asses kicked!

I'll drink to that!

Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

Psalms 119:35 Lead me in the path of your commandments, for I delight in it.

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”

It is a fundamental misunderstanding of God's grace to think that it opposed to His Law, as if a house divided against itself could stand, but rather God shows His grace to us by teaching us how to rightly live and we are to respond in faith by delighting to do His will, and this is how we are delivered from sin and made whole. Christianity is as much about getting heaven into us as it is about getting us into heaven, though "heaven" was used as a circumlocution for "God". "Faith" as a noun refers to the object of our trust and if we are depending on God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will follow His instructions for that. Every example of saving faith in Hebrews 11 is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's instructions. To save someone is a verb, but someone who has been saved is a noun.
 
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Haipule

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You must be a real fire starter in your church
What church? I, the pastors child, was kicked out a long time ago! Can you even imagine that? And that..., and that,... and that,... My name is Bill. Yet, my nick name among my many surfer friends is "Flama" short for 'Flam-a-Bill', and that, because of my many unfortunate episodes with fire! And my last name is McCoy. In Gallic, my original name is: MacAoidh. Meaning Aodh, the "d" being silent separating two sounds, means: fire. The "i" means: "of". And "Mac" means: son. Therefore, my God given name is Flam-a-Bill, the Son of Fire. How did you know this?
 
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com7fy8

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beauty, poise,
This can fit with how God's grace effects our character to make us beautiful in God's sight >

"rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

God's grace is the action of His love in us, changing us to become in our nature how this love is (1 John 4:17). And this includes how we become beautiful by being deeply gentle and quiet. And this beauty is "incorruptible"; so this is real poise, how nothing evil can corrupt us, no dominating and dictatorial drives of lust can mess us. And in this poise, we are pleasing to God Himself :)
 
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ViaCrucis

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"The law says, 'Do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'Trust this,' and everything is already done.

The first part is clear from what has been stated by the Apostle and his interpreter, St. Augustine, in many places. And it has been stated often enough above that the law works wrath and keeps men under the curse. The second part is clear from the same sources, for faith justifies. And the law (says St. Augustine) commands what faith obtains. For through faith Christ is in us, indeed, one with us. Christ is just and has fulfilled all the commands of God, wherefore we also fulfill everything through Him since He was made ours through faith.
" - Martin Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, Thesis 26

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Haipule

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Psalms 119:29 Put false ways far from me and graciously teach me your law!

Psalms 119:35 Lead me in the path of your commandments, for I delight in it.

Psalms 40:8 I delight to do your will, O my God; your law is within my heart.”

It is a fundamental misunderstanding of God's grace to think that it opposed to His Law, as if a house divided against itself could stand, but rather God shows His grace to us by teaching us how to rightly live and we are to respond in faith by delighting to do His will, and this is how we are delivered from sin and made whole. Christianity is as much about getting heaven into us as it is about getting us into heaven, though "heaven" was used as a circumlocution for "God". "Faith" as a noun refers to the object of our trust and if we are depending on God to guide us in how to rightly live, then we will follow His instructions for that. Every example of saving faith in Hebrews 11 is also an example of someone living in obedience to God's instructions. To save someone is a verb, but someone who has been saved is a noun.
"Saved" is always of verb. We are constantly being delivered. The paraphrases of Ephesians 2:8a means that este sesOsmenoi is a periphrastic indicative where the completed state is a future perfect.

Ephesians 2:8a tE gar chariti este sesOsmenoi dia pisteOs,

For(assigning a reason) to-thee(location/indirect object of the verb) thriving-joy/joyous favor(this location) you-all-are(the verb establishing a paraphrasis) ones-having-been(and continuing)-being(passive voice)-delivered/rescued/made whole/kept safe and sound(the nominative masculine plural, perfect passive participle/verbal adjective of the verb sOzO) through(means) [anarthrous/the character and nature]of-trust(noun your inventory of ideas built the through the study of God's Word--it is a substance and is not blind),

Further, chariti is the gift of God in this verse not "saved".

For to-thee thriving-joy you-all-are ones-having-been-being-delivered through(means)[ ]of-trust,

It's talking about deliverance in, and through, this life of God's promised thriving joy.

Ain't it good?!

Faith is not objective. "Saving faith"? Really? "Faith" in Hebrews hall of fame, chapter 11, is an anarthrous dative feminine noun. It should be understood as [ ]"using-faith". The dative(no motion) simply identifies the thing used and not the means by which anything occurs as in "by-faith".

When Jesus says "believe in Me" He always used present participles indicating a continuous, repeated, customary action in an ongoing linear present--ones-keep-on-trusting in Me. Not a one shot decision.
 
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