During the Tribulation, is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?

It does not matter what period of time, church age or any period.
Salvation is only by faith and we show that we have faith by our works.

Let me put it bluntly.

Jesus as the son of God, made man, was he perfect?
As God was his rightousness able to wipe out all the sins of ever person who has, is or will ever live?
If you answered yes, how can you believe that by piling up [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on to Jesus you will somehow improve your salvation. ( Paul classed all his good works as [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]. )

Yahchristian said:

This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation in the past, and the split between the Dispensationalist and Reformed churches today. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the other “Christian” ideas. During the Tribulation, is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Are Tribulation saints saved just by believing in Jesus, or do they have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

P.S. I say no one (including Tribulation saints) needs to do any works to be saved. A person just needs to have faith in Jesus. Whereas Pre-trib Rapture proponents think the Old Covenant will be re-established during the Tribulation.

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The Old Covenant will be in effect again, because it will be DANIEL'S 70th week, a week for HIS people. But the Old Testament saints were saved by faith too.

Yahchristian said:

Just as Catholics believe in a "faith plus works" for Christians now, Dispensationalists believe in a "faith plus works" for Christians during the Tribulation.

The OT saints were not doing "works", they were simply offering sacrifices as proof of their faith in the future Messiah, who would offer the only effectual sacrifice. But if people begin to offer sacrifices now that the Messiah has already come, they will be doing extra "works".

So how would you answer this question...

During the Tribulation, will the high priest still be required to do works by daily offering blood sacrifices for the sins of the people?

I say No, Jesus offered the effectual sacrifice once for all, and the non-physical "perfect tabernacle" has replaced the physical "first tabernacle".

Hebrews 7:27... Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this [Jesus] did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 9:8... The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Hebrews 9:11... But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

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You probably asked the wrong question. The high priest during the 70th week is offer the daily sacrifices because he and the others will think it is the right thing to do.

If you study Ezekiel, you will find that Jesus will require animal sacrifices AGAIN during the Millennial reign. During the Old Covenant, those sacrifices were pointing forward in time to Christ's sacrifice. During the Millennial Reign, I can only guess they will be pointing backwards in time to the one GREAT sacrifice.

"Dispensationalists believe in a "faith plus works" for Christians during the Tribulation."

I thought dispensationalists believed in a pretrib rapture. However, I am a dispensationalist, and I believe those left behind will still have to live by faith. The only verse they can really have faith in is that they will be overcome. Probably the best thing to do is get it over with quickly and just turn yourself in.

iamlamad said:

The Old Covenant will be in effect again, because it will be DANIEL'S 70th week, a week for HIS people. But the Old Testament saints were saved by faith too.

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Below we find the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, fulfilled by Christ.


Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　
Heb 8:9　 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.　
Heb 8:10　 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.　
Heb 8:11　 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.　
Heb 8:12　 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　


The New Covenant has now made the Sinai Covenant "obsolete" in Hebrews 8:13, and the New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.

God is not going back to an "obsolete" covenant during a future time.

Paul reveals in Galatians chapter 3 that the Sinai Covenant was a temporary covenant put in place 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made (Galatians 3:16-29).

In Romans 11 Paul said the branches broken off of the Olive Tree can be grafted back in, through faith in Christ. The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelite (Romans 11:1) and Gentile branches grafted together. Paul provides no other path to salvation within the passage.

No person will be saved outside of the Church during a future time.



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iamlamad said:

The Old Covenant will be in effect again...

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If you really believe that then I'm afraid you just don't understand the gospel.

Yahchristian said:

This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation in the past, and the split between the Dispensationalist and Reformed churches today. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the other “Christian” ideas. During the Tribulation, is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Are Tribulation saints saved just by believing in Jesus, or do they have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

P.S. I say no one (including Tribulation saints) needs to do any works to be saved. A person just needs to have faith in Jesus. Whereas Pre-trib Rapture proponents think the Old Covenant will be re-established during the Tribulation.

Click to expand...

The one and only way that there has ever been and will ever be to become saved is by faith and doing good works has never been about trying to become saved, but rather the same faith that saves us also requires us to be careful to obey all of God's commands. We can not believe that Jesus is Lord while not seeking to submit to him as Lord through our actions. We can not have faith in Jesus to guide us how to rightly live while not seeking to follow what he taught by word and by example. The Tribulation doesn't change anything in this regard.

Yahchristian said:

Just as Catholics believe in a "faith plus works" for Christians now, Dispensationalists believe in a "faith plus works" for Christians during the Tribulation.

The OT saints were not doing "works", they were simply offering sacrifices as proof of their faith in the future Messiah, who would offer the only effectual sacrifice. But if people begin to offer sacrifices now that the Messiah has already come, they will be doing extra "works".

So how would you answer this question...

During the Tribulation, will the high priest still be required to do works by daily offering blood sacrifices for the sins of the people?

I say No, Jesus offered the effectual sacrifice once for all, and the non-physical "perfect tabernacle" has replaced the physical "first tabernacle".

Hebrews 7:27... Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this [Jesus] did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 9:8... The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

Hebrews 9:11... But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Click to expand...

According to Ephesians 2:8-10, we have been saved by grace through faith, not by doing good works, but for the purpose of doing good works by grace through faith. According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good and to renounce doing what is ungodly and sinful, so these good works that we are being trained by grace to do are not adding extra works to our salvation so much as they are what our salvation from doing sinful works looks like.

In Acts 18:18, Paul took a Nazarite vow, which involved making offerings (Numbers 6), and in Acts 21:20-24, Paul was on his way to pay for the offerings of others who had undertaken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against obeying God's Law and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. So offerings did not stop with the death and resurrection of Jesus, but only stopped because of the destruction of the temple. However, the Bible prophecies a time when a third and fourth temple will be built when offerings will resume (Ezekiel 40-46). For instance, Daniel 12:11 says that the antichrist will put a stop to the daily offerings before setting up the abomination that causes desolation, so the daily offerings will first need to resume before they can be stopped.