Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Romans 3:19-21 -- not under the condemnation of the Law.

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the Law"

Romans 6 - what it truly means to be freed from sin.

What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

...
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13 and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

But do you know what it is like to WALK IN THE SPIRIT? You still think it is head knowledge.

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
But do you know what it is like to WALK IN THE SPIRIT? You still think it is head knowledge.

Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

What group according to the text above is "walking in the Spirit" vs being at odds with the Law of God??

Give me the Bible "AND" the Words in the Bible.

Leaving the false accusation, ad hominem retorts to others. And I am sure you will agree with me that this is - best.

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Romans 8
4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

What group according to the text above is "walking in the Spirit" vs being at odds with the Law of God??

Give me the Bible "AND" the Words in the Bible.

Leaving the false accusation, ad hominem retorts to others. And I am sure you will agree with me that this is - best.

What I meant by head knowledge is that it is not Spirit knowledge to keep the Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night. You have to have read that first. That is not a false accusation. It is not written on our conscience as are morality laws.

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness.

That is referring to the moral laws of doing unto others as you would that they do unto you. These are written on the heart. You just can't say that about the first four commandments.

When we learn about Jesus and accept Him as our Savior, we obey HIS commandments which are to believe on His name, and love your neighbor as yourself. 1 John 3:23.

So even if you had never read the Ten Commandments out of the Old Testament like the Gentiles of Romans 2 above, with the Spirit of Christ indwelling you, you love your neighbor by your new nature, and love Jesus.

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
What I meant by head knowledge is that it is not Spirit knowledge to keep the Sabbath from Friday night to Saturday night.

Until you read the actual Bible.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" -- not "SIN IS transgression of whatever make you feel ok".

In the actual Bible - the scriptures are authored by the Holy Spirit. 2Tim 3:16 2Pet 1:20-21
In the actual Bible - the weekly Sabbath is from evening to evening - Lev 23.

You have to have read that first before make such claims.

It is not written on our conscience as are morality laws.

Not true at all. The TEN Commandments define what sin is - and our conscience is fully aware that rebellion against the Word of God - is sin.

Thus even the pro-Sunday Scholars admit to these glaringly obvious details about God's Commandments including the TEN Commandments.

Christ Himself argues that the efforts to tweak/set-aside-downsize the Ten Commandments are misguided efforts as we see His words in Mark 7:6-13.

Your argument that if Christians could simply delete their knowledge of the Word of God - that perhaps there are Commands of God that they would not be aware of - having fully deleted all such knowledge. I don't doubt that at all.

However you seem to then be arguing that a Christian cannot be held to more accountability than a pagan who has no access to scripture at all - even the Word of God says quite to the contrary "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - him it is SIN".

Jesus said "IF You were BLIND you would have no sin - but you say that you SEE ... your sin remains" John 8.

1 Tim 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

If we simply ignore all those texts - supposing they have no real meaning for Christians trying to understand the scope of obligation presented by our having the written Word of God - THEN because the pagan out in some jungle "does know instinctively know to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus" or does not know not to worship false gods/idols/images, or does not know that polygamy is wrong, or does not know to wear clothes in public... then none of that is a sin for the "much better informed" Christian who has a Bible - either.

Thankfully no one here opposes the Commandments of God to that much of an extreme - as I am sure you will agree.

Such persons (as I am sure you would agree) can be found in John 16 this way -

John 16
2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

I have to go with the Word of Christ - on this one.

Christ affirms the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13 and John 14:15 - rather than opposing them.

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
Until you read the actual Bible.

1 John 3:4 "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" -- not "SIN IS transgression of whatever make you feel ok".

In the actual Bible - the scriptures are authored by the Holy Spirit. 2Tim 3:16 2Pet 1:20-21
In the actual Bible - the weekly Sabbath is from evening to evening - Lev 23.

You have to have read that first before make such claims.

Not true at all. The TEN Commandments define what sin is - and our conscience is fully aware that rebellion against the Word of God - is sin.

Thus even the pro-Sunday Scholars admit to these glaringly obvious details about God's Commandments including the TEN Commandments.

Christ Himself argues that the efforts to tweak/set-aside-downsize the Ten Commandments are misguided efforts as we see His words in Mark 7:6-13.

Your argument that if Christians could simply delete their knowledge of the Word of God - that perhaps there are Commands of God that they would not be aware of - having fully deleted all such knowledge. I don't doubt that at all.

However you seem to then be arguing that a Christian cannot be held to more accountability than a pagan who has no access to scripture at all - even the Word of God says quite to the contrary "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - him it is SIN".

Jesus said "IF You were BLIND you would have no sin - but you say that you SEE ... your sin remains" John 8.

1 Tim 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Such persons (as I am sure you would agree) can be found in John 16 this way -

John 16
2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

I have to go with the Word of Christ - on this one.

Christ affirms the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13 and John 14:15 - rather than opposing them.

Right, "until you read the Bible." That is head knowledge.

So what do you think is written on our hearts? Morality.

BobRyan · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Right, "until you read the Bible." That is head knowledge.

So what do you think is written on our hearts? Morality.

One of the moral imperatives that Christians soon discover upon reading the Bible - is that it is a sin to transgress the Law of God.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4.

Thus we even have a great many pro-Sunday scholars admit to the Bible fact that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on heart and mind under the New Covenant.

God never claimed that His people were "devoid of scripture".

When BOTH sides can admit to seeing this glaringly obvious Bible detail... well "it just does not GET any easier than that!"

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

BobRyan said:
"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4.

Thus we even have a great many pro-Sunday scholars admit to the Bible fact that the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God written on heart and mind under the New Covenant.

God never claimed that His people were "devoid of scripture".

When BOTH sides can admit to seeing this glaringly obvious Bible detail... well "it just does not GET any easier than that!"

And if you read further, you find the commandments of Jesus. 1 John 3:23.

Therefore, rejecting Christ and hating your brother is what is sin.

You are still confused between Old Covenant and New Covenant.

BobRyan · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
When we learn about Jesus and accept Him as our Savior, we obey HIS commandments which are to believe on His name, and love your neighbor as yourself. 1 John 3:23.

So even if you had never read the Ten Commandments out of the Old Testament like the Gentiles of Romans 2 above, with the Spirit of Christ indwelling you, you love your neighbor by your new nature, and love Jesus.

True - there are certain laws that even a primitive living in the jungle would know.

BobRyan · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
And if you read further, you find the commandments of Jesus. 1 John 3:23.

And if you read the actual Words of Jesus in Mark 7:6-13 you find that HE calls the Ten Commandments the "Commandments of God".

And if you read the Words of Jesus in Matthew 19 when asked "Which Commandments" He names even MORE of the Ten Commandments.

And if you read the Words of Paul in Hebrews 8:6-10 you find that it is JESUS who gave us the TEN Commandments thus in John 14:15 "Love Me - Keep My Commandments" is a direct quote of Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments".

Therefore, rejecting Christ and hating your brother is sin AS WELL As taking God's name in vain also - a sin..

You are still confused between 66 books in the Bible vs 1 or 2.

1stcenturylady · Jun 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
And if you read the actual Words of Jesus in Mark 7:6-13 you find that HE calls the Ten Commandments the "Commandments of God".

And if you read the Words of Jesus in Matthew 19 when asked "Which Commandments" He names even MORE of the Ten Commandments.

And if you read the Words of Paul in Hebrews 8:6-10 you find that it is JESUS who gave us the TEN Commandments thus in John 14:15 "Love Me - Keep My Commandments" is a direct quote of Exodus 20:7 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments".

Therefore, rejecting Christ and hating your brother is sin AS WELL As taking God's name in vain also - a sin..

You are still confused between 66 books in the Bible vs 1 or 2.

Yes, Jesus and the disciples quoted the last 6 commandments many times as they were the result of loving your neighbor as yourself. But, the Fathers commandments only dealt with the result of hate, whereas Jesus dealt with the iniquity behind hate and cleansed it out of His followers through the Holy Spirit. Thus, if we walk in the Spirit, we won't even kill someone from our imagination - hate.

Bob, I've been where you are, except when I heard the truth, it only took 3 hours for the light bulb to shine in my understanding...

BobRyan · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Yes, Jesus and the disciples quoted the last 6 commandments many times as they were the result of loving your neighbor as yourself.

True - but that did not mean they thought it was ok to worship pagan gods, or take God's name in vain or "break the commandments" of God.

But, the Fathers commandments only dealt with the result of hate,

Jesus never says "disobey any command of God that you don't suppose deals with hate towards God or man".

As we saw here - "The Word of God matters"

BobRyan said:
However you seem to then be arguing that a Christian cannot be held to more accountability than a pagan who has no access to scripture at all - even the Word of God says quite to the contrary "to him that KNOWS to do right and does it not - him it is SIN".

Jesus said "IF You were BLIND you would have no sin - but you say that you SEE ... your sin remains" John 8.

1 Tim 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

If we simply ignore all those texts - supposing they have no real meaning for Christians trying to understand the scope of obligation presented by our having the written Word of God - THEN because the pagan out in some jungle "does know instinctively know to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus" or does not know not to worship false gods/idols/images, or does not know that polygamy is wrong, or does not know to wear clothes in public... then none of that is a sin for the "much better informed" Christian who has a Bible - either.

Thankfully no one here opposes the Commandments of God to that much of an extreme - as I am sure you will agree.

Such persons (as I am sure you would agree) can be found in John 16 this way -

John 16
2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God.

I have to go with the Word of Christ - on this one.

Christ affirms the "Commandments of God" in Mark 7:6-13 and John 14:15 - rather than opposing them.

when I heard the truth, it only took 3 seconds for the light bulb to shine in my understanding...

Pretty neat that BOTH sides of that debate agree to this basic Bible detail.

1stcenturylady · Jun 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
True - but that did not mean they thought it was ok to worship pagan gods, or take God's name in vain or "break the commandments" of God.

Jesus never says "disobey any command of God that you don't suppose deals with hate towards God or man".

As we saw here - "The Word of God matters"

when I heard the truth, it only took 3 seconds for the light bulb to shine in my understanding...

Pretty neat that BOTH sides of that debate agree to this basic Bible detail.

If you believe on the NAME of His Son, Jesus Christ, that is exclusive. You are not going to be taking HIS NAME in vain, or follow other gods. The COMMANDMENTS OF OUR NEW COVENANT are found in 1 John 3:23 and encompass all of the Ten Commandments, even the 4th one, as we rest in trusting Jesus, the SUBSTANCE of the mere shadow.

Just as God rested from His work on the 7th day of creation, so Christ rested from His work when He said, "IT IS FINISHED." This is the "entering into His rest" as we come boldly to the throne of grace.

BobRyan · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
If you believe on the NAME of His Son, Jesus Christ, that is exclusive. You are not going to be taking HIS NAME in vain, or follow other gods.

Or trashing scripture, or in rebellion against the Commandments of God or crossing the line Christ draws in Mark 7:6-13 where He points to the commandments and traditions of man -- at war with the "Commandment of God". As I am sure we would both agree.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 the "New Covenant" as written by Jeremiah did not including rebellion against the Law of God - the Commandments of God - spoken by God Himself. As we all know.

The COMMANDMENTS OF OUR NEW COVENANT are found in 1 John 3:23

And all through scripture as Jeremiah would point out. HE is the one writing ... remember?

and encompass all of the Ten Commandments

John 3 does not quote the command to love God, does not quote the command to not take God's name in vain.. does not quote Christ's repeat in MAtt 22 of the Deut 6:5 commend "To love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. Rather it deals with only the last 6 of the Ten Commandments. It was not given as a text to "delete the Word of Christ" in Matt 22 or in Exodus 20.

No wonder BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments.

It just does not get any easier than this one.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall All mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth.

1stcenturylady · Jun 23, 2017

BobRyan said:
Or trashing scripture, or in rebellion against the Commandments of God or crossing the line Christ draws in Mark 7:6-13 where He points to the commandments and traditions of man -- at war with the "Commandment of God".

Jeremiah 31:31-33 the "New Covenant" as written by Jeremiah did not including rebellion against the Law of God - the Commandments of God - spoken by God Himself. As we all know.

And all through scripture as Jeremiah would point out. HE is the one writing ... remember?

John 3 does not quote the command to love God, does not quote the command to not take God's name in vain.. does not quote Christ's repeat in MAtt 22 of the Deut 6:5 commend "To love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. Rather it deals with only the last 6 of the Ten Commandments. It was not given as a text to "delete the Word of Christ" in Matt 22 or in Exodus 20.

No wonder BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments.

It just does not get any easier than this one.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall All mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth.

I find it ironic that you should accuse me of trashing Scripture, when you have NEVER acknowledged 1 John 3:23. You certainly do not revere it. Do you see the commandments of Jesus to be in any way against the Ten Commandments of His Father? Love is the foundation, so of course to believe in Jesus is to love God. Jesus is God is He not? Even not taking His name in vain is there if you're not blind as a bat. We ESTABLISH that law by believing on His NAME.

BobRyan · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
If you believe on the NAME of His Son, Jesus Christ, that is exclusive. You are not going to be taking HIS NAME in vain, or follow other gods.

Or trashing scripture, or in rebellion against the Commandments of God or crossing the line Christ draws in Mark 7:6-13 where He points to the commandments and traditions of man -- at war with the "Commandment of God". As I am sure we would both agree.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 the "New Covenant" as written by Jeremiah did not including rebellion against the Law of God - the Commandments of God - spoken by God Himself. As we all know.

The COMMANDMENTS OF OUR NEW COVENANT are found in 1 John 3:23

And all through scripture as Jeremiah would point out. HE is the one writing ... remember?

and encompass all of the Ten Commandments

John 3 does not quote the command to love God, does not quote the command to not take God's name in vain.. does not quote Christ's repeat in MAtt 22 of the Deut 6:5 commend "To love God with all your heart" -- as we all know. Rather it deals with only the last 6 of the Ten Commandments. It was not given as a text to "delete the Word of Christ" in Matt 22 or in Exodus 20.

No wonder BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate admit to the continued authority of all TEN of the TEN commandments.

It just does not get any easier than this one.

"From Sabbath to Sabbath shall All mankind come before Me to worship" Isaiah 66:23 - for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth.

1stcenturylady said:
I find it ironic that you should accuse me of trashing Scripture

In that post above - you are not accusing me of taking God's name in vain and I am not accusing you of trashing scripture.

, when you have NEVER acknowledged 1 John 3:23.

I acknowledge that it does not even touch the commands regarding our relationship to God - including the one Jesus mentions in Matt 22 in His quote of Deut 6:5 "Love God with all your heart". Nor does it mention the commands not to worship idols nor does it mention the Sabbath.

But in Acts 15 - gentiles are told to abstain from idols.

And in Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

And in Isaiah 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship"

You certainly do not revere it.

false accusation again? I revere what it says and I revere the rest of scripture as well. My Bible has 66 books. not just one.

Do you see the commandments of Jesus to be in any way against the Ten Commandments of His Father?

No because as Paul tells us in Hebrews 8:6-10 it is CHRIST that gives the Ten Commandments on Sinai and has Christ reminds us in John 14 (and John 12) His words are NOT His own but He is giving the Father's Commandment.

Love is the foundation, so of course to believe in Jesus is to love God.

Agreed AND "THIS IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

Jesus is God is He not?

Indeed He is - EVEN when He is speaking at Sinai.

'Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matthew 7.

"NOT the hearers of the LAW are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE justified... on the day when according to my Gospel God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 23, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
I find it ironic

Seek and Pray that the Creator, YHWH, may grant you understanding as He did and says in the NT:
" Then opened HE their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"...

Rest in HIM, in YHWH, by FAITH in JESUS, and don't trust nor rest in men who taught you otherwise, contrary to His Word, Scripture.

1stcenturylady · Jun 24, 2017

BobRyan said:
And in Heb 4 "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God"

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Jeff and Bob, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest.

Agreed AND "THIS IS the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:2-3

1 John already tells us what those commandments are in 1 John 3:23. These are the New Covenant Commandments.

'Not everyone who SAYS Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of Heaven - but he who DOES the will of My Father" Matthew 7.

1 John 3:23 again says to believe on the name of HIS SON, Jesus Christ. THAT is the will of the Father. There is nothing like it in the Ten Commandments, except the Sabbath whose true rest for those who will enter that rest, is Jesus.

"NOT the hearers of the LAW are just before God - but the DOERS of the LAW WILL BE justified... on the day when according to my Gospel God will judge" Romans 2:13-16

You have only gotten to the second chapter, friend. Keep reading. Paul goes on to tell us that those in Jesus are not under the law, because His Spirit makes us dead to sin. We keep the law by our nature, even the Sabbath because we have entered into the true rest of God, His Son, Jesus.

I know you will have some heated retort, with the Old Covenant, but I have the New Covenant to respond with. Because we do not have the same foundation in which to debate, this is fruitless. Again.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 24, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Jesus is our Sabbath Rest.

This is not true for most all the world.
Also for many who claim it, but disobey the Father - they don't believe the Father nor Jesus, nor obey His Word,
but hope to be saved by claiming to be Christian or by association with Christians and just going along.

1stcenturylady · Jun 24, 2017

yeshuaslavejeff said:
This is not true for most all the world.
Also for many who claim it, but disobey the Father - they don't believe the Father nor Jesus, nor obey His Word,
but hope to be saved by claiming to be Christian or by association with Christians and just going along.

Yes, Jeff, I totally agree. Even many Christians are not being lead by the Holy Spirit and are therefore dead to sin. Only by walking in Christ's Spirit do we not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. But by walking in the Spirit we are not under the law. We establish the law by being righteous.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jun 24, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Yes, Jeff, I totally agree. Even many Christians are not being lead by the Holy Spirit and are therefore dead to sin. Only by walking in Christ's Spirit do we not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. But by walking in the Spirit we are not under the law. We establish the law by being righteous.

I don't think you agree.

Walking in the Spirit, would never opposed God's Word.

Jesus' commandments - opposed to His Fathers Commandments? - Really?

Are Jesus' Commandments opposed to God's Ten Commandments?

No Jesus taught in perfect harmony with the Father and the Ten Commandments

Jesus came to delete/oppose God's Ten Commandments

Jesus taught us to edit the Ten Commandments replacing some but not others

Jesus' commandments are based on Love - God's Commandments are not and are ended

I don't know - I have not given this much thought so far.

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

Junior Member

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Spirit-filled follower of Christ

simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

Similar threads