50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
the Church and Israel are two very separate entities God is dealing with differently until all has been consamated in Jesus Millennial reign on earth.

Gal 6:13 It's clear that not even those who had themselves circumcised did this to follow Jewish laws. Yet, they want you to be circumcised so that they can brag about what was done to your body.
Gal 6:14 But it's unthinkable that I could ever brag about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. By his cross my relationship to the world and its relationship to me have been crucified.
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)


.
 
  • Like
Reactions: keras
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
This was posted by the member, Postview, a month or so ago. It is an excellent article on the truth of who is the real Israel:
The Bible never said that ethnic Israel will repent and accept Jesus.
As a matter of fact it says the exact opposite.


Romans 9:6  But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel. 
Paul confirms that not all of ethnic Israel are Israel of the Promise.

Romans 9:8  That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 
Here Paul explains the verse above by saying that a person is not an Israelite of the Promise, because of their Flesh. [ethnicity]

Romans 9:27  Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, ONLY A REMNANT WILL BE SAVED. Isaiah 6:11-13
Here Paul reviews what Isaiah said in the Old Testament. Isaiah said the "remnant" would be saved. That word means part, instead of all as you are saying. Paul must agree with Isaiah.

Romans 11:26  And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "THE DELIVERER WILL COME OUT OF ZION, AND HE WILL TURN AWAY UNGODLINESS FROM JACOB; 
Those who are promoting another doctrine often change the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing in this verse. Some just leave out the word "so" to make their doctrine work. I have heard John Hagee change "so" to "then". I have heard Dr David Jeremiah leave out the word "so". This corruption of scripture is necessary to produce a future time of "National Salvation" when all the Israelites will come to faith in Christ. The problem is that the idea stands in direct conflict to what Paul and Isaiah said above. Therefore, it comes from men, instead of God. It does not matter if someone has been promoting the idea for 100 years, it is still wrong.

Romans 11:27  FOR THIS IS MY COVENANT WITH THEM, WHEN I TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS. 
This is the New Covenant confirmed by the Blood of Christ at Calvary, as found in the words of Christ in Matthew 26:28. He poured out His Blood for all races of people almost 2,000 years ago. That is when He took away sin. It was finished then. It is the same covenant found in Hebrews 8:6 and the same covenant found in Hebrews 12:18-24. The Olive Tree is a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree, through faith in Christ. Trying to change it to a future covenant, conflicts with everything Paul said in the passage.

Salvation has nothing to do with ethnicity. God is not a racist.
1Timothy 1:4… nor give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which cause disputes rather than godly edification which is in faith. 

Paul and Isaiah said a "remnant". Timothy said it has nothing to do with race. What you are saying is based on the corruption of scripture by men who insist that God did not fulfill His promises to the Jewish people and therefore He must save all of them at some future time, because they are Jews. The verse above says that idea cannot be the truth. We are not to give heed to genealogies. If a person has a DNA test done and finds out they have a Jewish ancestor, it does not change their relationship with God. The doctrine promoted by those who must have a separation in order to prove the rapture theory is all error.

God sent His Son, His only Son, to die a cruel death on the Cross of Calvary so that all who place their faith in Him could have eternal life, no matter what the person's ethnicity would be. John 3:16
When Jesus said on the Cross... "It is finished." is that the truth?
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Gal 6:13 It's clear that not even those who had themselves circumcised did this to follow Jewish laws. Yet, they want you to be circumcised so that they can brag about what was done to your body.
Gal 6:14 But it's unthinkable that I could ever brag about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. By his cross my relationship to the world and its relationship to me have been crucified.
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God. (GW)


.


The Church Jesus founded and is the Head of, is not Israel, nor is Israel the Church, and never will be.My posts 141; 144; 146; 149 and 157 have all refuted you and your false obsession that Israel is the Church.

Propagating it as you do, is after being shown repeatedly the Scriptures that refute you, is something you can rest assured the Lord will hold you accountable for when you stand before Him.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Propagating it as you do, is after being shown repeatedly the Scriptures that refute you, is something you can rest assured the Lord will hold you accountable for when you stand before Him.

Luk_6:42  Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.



Overview of Covenants: David H J Gay
 
Upvote 0

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,563
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,794.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The Church Jesus founded and is the Head of, is not Israel, nor is Israel the Church, and never will be.My posts 141; 144; 146; 149 and 157 have all refuted you and your false obsession that Israel is the Church.
It seems that you, Quasar, think we are trying to make the Jewish State of Israel into the established Church. Those two entities are separate and never converge.

Let me, once again; explain who is the true 'church of God, His ekkelasia, His Overcomers, the real Israelites of God'. --- They are every born again individual Christian believer, from every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10 THEY are the real Israel, that the prophets talk about and who will receive the Promises and blessings of God in the last days.

The idea that the Jewish people will be the recipients of God's promises, while the 'church' relaxes in heaven, is quit incorrect and contrary to scripture.
 
Upvote 0

Yahchristian

Active Member
Mar 3, 2017
389
73
65
South Carolina
✟20,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Does Israel’s Future Demean the Church’s Glory?


Modern Israel is not primarily a gathering of people with the same bloodline (they are not all Jacob's descendants). It is primarily a gathering of people with the same religion (that does not want Jesus to reign over them). That is why Israel is just as diverse ethnically as the USA. So...

How can you be sure that the gathering going on in Israel today is not fulfilling this prophecy...

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

And perhaps the gathering of the descendants of Jacob is a future event.
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Modern Israel is not primarily a gathering of people with the same bloodline (they are not all Jacob's descendants). It is primarily a gathering of people with the same religion (that does not want Jesus to reign over them). That is why Israel is just as diverse ethnically as the USA. So...

How can you be sure that the gathering going on in Israel today is not fulfilling this prophecy...

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

And perhaps the gathering of the descendants of Jacob is a future event.


Tim.3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Such as the following Scriptures fully supporting the tribulation temple Israel will build in the future:

Dan.9:27 "He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Mt.24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—"

Mk.13:14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

2 Thess.2:4 "He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God"

11:1 "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."


Quasar92


 
Upvote 0

Yahchristian

Active Member
Mar 3, 2017
389
73
65
South Carolina
✟20,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Tim.3:16 "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,17 so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Such as the following Scriptures fully supporting the tribulation temple Israel will build in the future:

Dan.9:27 "He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

Mt.24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand—"

Mk.13:14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

2 Thess.2:4 "He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God"

11:1 "I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, “Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers.2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months."


Quasar92



You didn't answer the question...

How can you be sure that the gathering going on in Israel today is not fulfilling this prophecy...

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
You didn't answer the question...

How can you be sure that the gathering going on in Israel today is not fulfilling this prophecy...

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.


The return of the Jews to what has now been made into the nation of Israel, is only the tip of the iceberg. There are about the same number of Jews in the U.S. as there are in Israel today, for example. With many others scattered throughout the rest of the world. The majority of whom are looking for the day, the kingdom of Israel will be restored, as recorded in Acts 1:6. That will take place when Jesus returns in His second coming to earth, to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, as recorded in Acts 2:29-30; 15-16 to build the Millennial temple documented in Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47. Then there will be a tremendous number of Jews and Gentiles alike, return to Israel.


Quasar92
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Yahchristian

Active Member
Mar 3, 2017
389
73
65
South Carolina
✟20,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The return of the Jews to what has now been made into the nation of Israel, is only the tip of the iceberg.


When do you think the bring hither in Luke 19:27 is fulfilled?

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I think it might be happening now.

Just as was the case when Jesus made that prophecy against the Jews, those being regathered in Israel today do not want Jesus to reign over them.

If you do not think the "bring hither" in Luke 19:27 is happening now...

What verse in the Bible do you think does relate to what is happening now?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
When do you think the bring hither in Luke 19:27 is fulfilled?

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

I think it might be happening now.

Just as was the case when Jesus made that prophecy against the Jews, those being regathered in Israel today do not want Jesus to reign over them.

If you do not think the "bring hither" in Luke 19:27 is happening now...

What verse in the Bible do you think does relate to what is happening now?


Lk.19:27 is the ast verse f Jesus parable about the ten minas, that begins in verse 11. Verse 27 is a window of events in Rev.19:11-21, where Jesus returns in His second coming, with His Church and armies from heavem. When He will fight the battle of Armageddon against His enemies, as so recorded. It might interest you to have a look at the chronological order of ende time events in the following. As to ny Bible verse pertaining to where we areat in those order of events, I cannot think of any specific verse, except to say, Jesus is right at the door.

The prophetic chronological order of end times events:

1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin.

3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27.

Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21.

4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948.

5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth.

6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14.

7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26...

8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end.
9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16.

10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them..

11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9.

12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10.

13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled.

14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16.
15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

Yahchristian

Active Member
Mar 3, 2017
389
73
65
South Carolina
✟20,400.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Lk.19:27 is the ast verse f Jesus parable about the ten minas, that begins in verse 11.


That sentence is correct.

I believe "mine enemies" in Luke 19:27 is referring to "his citizens" in Luke 19:14.

Do you agree?

Luke 19:14... But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

Luke 19:27... But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28.

There is no trip to heaven found in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.
The promise in John 14:2-4, 28 applies to those Christians who die before the return of Christ.



 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
There is no trip to heaven found in 1 Thessalonians chapters 4 and 5.
The promise in John 14:2-4, 28 applies to those Christians who die before the return of Christ.








The following Scriptural support for the pre-trib rapture of the Church, refute you.


1 Cor.15:51 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory."]

1 Thess.4:13 "Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.18 Therefore encourage one another with these words."

2 Thess.2:1 "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time.7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming".

John 14:1 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.


The Church in heaven for the marriage to the Lamb while the tribulation takes place on earth:

Rev.19:7 "Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear.”
(Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.


The Church returns with Jesus from heaven in His second comingh:)

Rev.19:14 "The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean."


The following four post link of the Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, has been posted for you many times over. That refute the views you continue prpogating. The last of the four posts, consists of a listings of theologians from every walk of Christian teachings who fully endorse the pre-trib rapture of the church.


The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum



Quasar92

 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The following Scriptural support for the pre-trib rapture of the Church, refute you.

1 Cor.15:51 "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

Why did you forget to underline and bold "at the last trumpet" in the verse above?

Is it because the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because there is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found right after the 7th trumpet?

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 


Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 



Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 



Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."



All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. 
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Postvieww
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Postvieww

Believer
Sep 29, 2014
4,526
1,315
South
✟105,282.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. 
How true my friend. Great words of wisdom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BABerean2
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
100
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟332,574.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Why did you forget to underline and bold "at the last trumpet" in the verse above?

Is it because the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because there is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found right after the 7th trumpet?

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 


Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 



Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 



Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."



All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. 
.
Why did you forget to underline and bold "at the last trumpet" in the verse above?

Is it because the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because there is no 8th trumpet in the Book of Revelation?

Is it because "the time of the judgment of the dead" is found right after the 7th trumpet?

Rev 11:15  Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" 


Rev 11:16  And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 



Rev 11:17  saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 



Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth."



All false doctrines are revealed not by the scripture quoted by its proponents, but rather by the scripture they must ignore to make it work. 
.


With reference to your remarks pertainig to the seventh and last trumpet judgment in Rev.11, the trumpet is blown by an angel. In he second place, there is no reference there of any kind of a resurrection. FYI, the final trumpet calls will all be made by God, not by either angels or man, such as in 1 Cor.15:52, and 1 Thess.4:16 where Paul refers to both the rapture as well as to the resurrection.

At that time in Revelation, there is much more that will take place before Jesus return in His second coming, when He returns from His marriage to the Bride/Church, WITH us, recorded in Rev.19:7-8; 11-21 . When He will fight the battle of Armageddon, against the two beasts/Antichrist and False Prophet, and the ten horns/nations, throw the two bests in the lake of fire and destroy the armies of the ten horns/nations, ending the seven year tribulation.

Your post #174 does not begin to address my post #174, primarily, because you are unable to field an argument proving the Scriptures that teach it, to be false, that refute you.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BABerean2

Newbie
Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟893,665.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
With reference to your remarks pertainig to the seventh and last trumpet judgment in Rev.11, the trumpet is blown by an angel. In he second place, there is no reference there of any kind of a resurrection.

How can you have a "time of the dead, that they should be judged" in Revelation 11:18, without a resurrection of the dead?

Rev 11:18  The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 

.
 
Upvote 0