The 4th Commandment had to go, and it did.

JLB777 · Jun 21, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Do you remember when and what source you heard that the millennium corresponds to the creation week's 7th day? Just curious, because in the Epistle of Barnabas, the 15th chapter says that the preceding 6 days represent 6,000 years (before Christ comes again) and then the 7th day is the millennium. I want to know from you if there is another source besides this chapter in the EoB, because our Bible doesn't point to the millennium as the 7th day.

That chapter also states why we keep the 8th day.

I have never read nor heard of the epistle of Barnabas

We have been here for about 6000 years.

The 7000th year, will be the 7th prophetic Day, in which we will dwell with Him, here on earth, with no enemies, in glorified bodies that will never die.

That is the rest that we are looking forward to.

The Sabbath, the 7th Day, the weekly Sabbath points to.

JLB

JLB777 · Jun 21, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Yes, the GIFT of tongues in a church must be interpreted as it is FROM God. It is only given to a few. But the SIGN of tongues is given to all believers as a means of perfect prayer and praise TO God. So you already have it, ask God to release it.

When a person is Baptized with the Holy Spirit, the evidence is tongues.

JLB

listed · Jun 22, 2017

John 1720 said:
Yes of course Jesus is the root - there is no argument there! But He is the root of Jesse Isaiah 11:10 and the promise which was to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel) or do you think there is more than one body - aka one tree - one vine? The Gospel begins in Genesis my friend and it comes through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob
see Genesis 12:2-3 Genesis 26:4 Acts 3:25 Galatians 3:8-16

Pretty slick. I missed it the other day. Isa 11:10 does indeed speak of Jesus. It however doesn't speak of Jesus as Israel like some say Romans 11 does. Now you might say yes it does. There's a lot of difference between "a" and "the." Isaiah talks about a descendent and Romans talks about the Redeemer. Israel (Jesse) is in no way a redeemer. Israel isn't the vine, Jesus is (John 15:5). Answer your own question about the vine, is there more than one?
If you really want to go the route of where the Gospel come through it is Eve as promised at the pronouncement of the curse (Genesis 3:15).

There is no doubt salvation is of the Jews see John 4:22 and there is but one tree that God has always refreshed throughout time for His promises are irrevocable. John 10:16 = one fold!

Yes the Jews were honored above measure to have the Redeemer come through their linage. This doesn't mean a person has to becomea Jew to possess salvation.

John 10 doesn't or imply the one fold is Israel. Read the text. Jesus doesn't say He bring the other fold into the fold (Israel). Jesus says there will be one fold. There's no salvation in being a Jew part of Israel. There's salvation only through Jesus the Christ. John 3:16, 5:24 and 10:9 point to this fact. No one enters through Israel.

We cannot be a separate wild olive branch but are grafted into the tree of promise (Christ) which the Lord gave to Abraham through his seed (singular)

Amen!

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Right, Gentiles are grafted into TRUE Israel, which many Jews were cut off because they didn't accept their Messiah.

Jesus isn't the TRUE Israel, but an Israelite.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Jews of Israel are still the natural branches, and Gentiles the wild olive branches. True Israel has God at its center, and Jesus is God, so I don't have a problem with your semantics. But, God has not completely forsaken national Israel. He has a plan to save those remaining in the last 7 years of the history of the earth before Christ comes.

I've no idea what importance this side issue is. No where did i say Jews aren't the natural branches. No where have I said God is forsaken Israel. I believe Israel, the Jews have a special privilege above the rest of mankind. I agree with Paul's statement in Romans 11 on this.

JLB777 · Jun 22, 2017

listed said:
Jesus isn't the TRUE Israel, but an Israelite.

Jesus is the True Israel.

The Israel of God; The Prince of God.

The amazing name Israel: meaning and etymology

Those who are in Him are the true Israel of God.

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son. Hosea 11:1

This was a prophetic statement fulfilled when Christ was brought out of Egypt, in the days when His parents fled to Egypt to protect Him from Herod, when he issued the order to kill all the male children.

and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:15

JLB

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1John2:4 said:
OK Let's try this
Biblical Definition of New Covenent
Jeremiah 31:31 “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—(not the house of gentile) 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (again not house of gentile) after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.(not parts and pieces of His law) 34 No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”(this does not say now we can do whatever we want)

You are telling me that I am suggesting that gentiles are to get circumsised and keep the whole law in order to be saved just as the judizers did in Galatians.

That is just not true, the gentlies were saved by repentace, accepting the blood of the lamb (new Covenant) and receiving the circumcision without hands (His Spirit) in Acts. Now they walk in newness of life not in lawlessness. Do you see how I am not saying they are saved BY keeping the law and being circumsised in the flesh? What I am not, and will not promote or teach is for brothers and sisters to practice lawlessness once they are saved and are part of the new Covenant through the Messiah.

I won't teach any different in that I don't teach other to sin. We part company when a person claims the Christian is keeping the law simply because they aren't murdering for example.

The problem I've got with your post is the implication the covenant law issued to Israel is what is written on the heart. You do this by 2 things -

1. insisting the new covenant is made exclusively with Israel and Judah in spite of the Gospel of John and Acts clearly indicate otherwise. You either ignore or choose to disbelieve both.

2. the de-emphasis of verse 32 in your quote allows for the above. Verse 32 self defines "new covenant" in verse 31. It clearly means it isn't the covenant issued to Israel. The covenant issued to Israel is clearly the ten commandments (Deut 4:13).

So no I don't see how you're saying one isn't saved by keeping the law and being circumcised. You have a conjunction there that includes both. I don't see either being involved with salvation.

I don't believe you can find a quote of Jesus meaning a person has to keep the law for salvation. If you can please quote it.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

JLB777 said:
Jesus is the True Israel.

The Israel of God; The Prince of God.

The amazing name Israel: meaning and etymology

Those who are in Him are the true Israel of God.

“When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son. Hosea 11:1

This was a prophetic statement fulfilled when Christ was brought out of Egypt, in the days when His parents fled to Egypt to protect Him from Herod, when he issued the order to kill all the male children.

and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.” Matthew 2:15

JLB

I think Hosea 11:1 has way more than meets the eye oft he causal reader.I think there are 2 items in verse 1 when I read the previous chapter. Israel is also a "he" as in a person renamed Israel. Israel is also a nation As such both are called out of Egypt. This includes Jacob called Israel and Jesus, Who was called out of Egypt twice. So I agree that Jesus was called out of Egypt as an individual. I don't agree Hosea 11:1 calls Jesus, Israel because of the previous chapter obviously talking about the nation using the pronoun "he". Israel is God's wife, a female. Israel is also a person, Jacob. If one examines the way things are talked about God also brought Abraham out of Egypt both physically and figuratively. I think the way things are stated in your quote is a cover keeping Israel from seeing.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

Traveling teacher said:
Not all Israel are of Israel....strang verse
Romans 9:6
To the Jew first then to the gentile
Paul and apostles always went to the jew first!!!!

Gentiles were always included....ith Israel by faith
Ex. RAhab...Ruth
I believe ruth was of the lineage of Messiah...Davids grmother

It was always by faith....
There were believing Jews and unbelieving Jews
As ther are believing gentiles and unbelieving gentiles

Not all of Abrahams offspring were of Christ......followers
Remeber ismael and hagar...
Cast out the bondwoman and her child
Galations 4:21-31

If gentiles or anyone keeping the law to justify themselves
Then it is in vain to keep the Sabbath..or other law

Keep in historical context:
But remeber most gentile Christians 100 years ago kept the sbbath...only on Sunday

Many if not most gentile Christians today do not keep sabbath on saturdy or sunday.......not really a good thing

Its good to keep in mind that only the last geneartion really believed the sabbath to be abolished........

This is relevant because i know many in this new generation do not see the importance of church attendance.....
An exqmple of the reaults of abolishing the Sunday/saturday sabbath

For me I just don't see what is called the church as a great place for Christians or an assembly of them. The focus is most always negative, self help and about the future to manipulate people. I find God and Jesus as incidental at places called houses of worship.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1John2:4 said:
We are part of Israel

The Christian isn't part of Israel.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1John2:4 said:
The law is spiritual do you suggest God is a house devided? This discussion is not at all fruitfull. If you want to do and teach against the law and the prophets than you can be least in the kingdom. I wish that was not the case.

Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven
Shalom

God isn't divided. God changed the covenant at His sovereign option.

Now you preach vanity, too.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1John2:4 said:
I understand where your heart is too and I know you are not attempting to promote lawlessness. My issue with being lead solely by the spirit is that we should test the spirits to the word. The just Bareens tested They tested the Paul's writings to the Tenakh, the NT had not been established. Perhaps if a spirit said to not keep Shabbat one would test it against Isaiah 56 to see what God said about Gentiles and His Sabbaths.

Then you're not really testing the Scripture.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

JLB777 said:
The Sabbath was around long before the law of Moses.

Where? I missed it.

listed · Jun 22, 2017

1John2:4 said:
Actually many Messianics are big on the fruits of the spirit. The congregation near me - I have not attended yet but that is for another discussion (nothing to do with them I would love to fellowship with them eventually.) On their bio page they were started by some members that used to be Assemblies of God and they encourage gifts and Davidic dancing.

Yes they infiltrated the AG church I attended for the exclusive purpose of drawing out members to the organization. The upbeat Judaic type worship music styles was their trump card.

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

JLB777 said:
When a person is Baptized with the Holy Spirit, the evidence is tongues.

JLB

A person is not a Christian if you don't have the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9, but yes, there is a second filling with the gifts of 1 Cor. 12. However, when you become a Christian with the first filling, you receive tongues. Mark 16:16-18

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

listed said:
Where? I missed it.

The 7th day of creation week. However, it wasn't given as law until Moses.

JLB777 · Jun 22, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
A person is not a Christian if you don't have the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9, but yes, there is a second filling with the gifts of 1 Cor. 12. However, when you become a Christian with the first filling, you receive tongues. Mark 16:16-18

You become a Christian when you are baptized into Christ, by the Holy Spirit, in which you have the Spirit of Christ within. This is being born again, or born of the Spirit.

Once this occurs, you have become a "new wineskin" you are ready to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

If a person does not have the Spirit of Christ, then they are not Christ's.

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:9-11

JLB

1stcenturylady · Jun 22, 2017

JLB777 said:
You become a Christian when you are baptized into Christ, by the Holy Spirit, in which you have the Spirit of Christ within. This is being born again, or born of the Spirit.

Once this occurs, you have become a "new wineskin" you are ready to be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

If a person does not have the Spirit of Christ, then they are not Christ's.

Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Romans 8:9-11

JLB

I agree.

1John2:4 · Jun 22, 2017

listed said:
I won't teach any different in that I don't teach other to sin. We part company when a person claims the Christian is keeping the law simply because they aren't murdering for example.

The problem I've got with your post is the implication the covenant law issued to Israel is what is written on the heart. You do this by 2 things -

1. insisting the new covenant is made exclusively with Israel and Judah in spite of the Gospel of John and Acts clearly indicate otherwise. You either ignore or choose to disbelieve both.

2. the de-emphasis of verse 32 in your quote allows for the above. Verse 32 self defines "new covenant" in verse 31. It clearly means it isn't the covenant issued to Israel. The covenant issued to Israel is clearly the ten commandments (Deut 4:13).

So no I don't see how you're saying one isn't saved by keeping the law and being circumcised. You have a conjunction there that includes both. I don't see either being involved with salvation.

I don't believe you can find a quote of Jesus meaning a person has to keep the law for salvation. If you can please quote it.

Again I never said you have to keep the law in order to be saved. Once we are saved we desire to keep the law because of the new spirit within us. The new Spirit gives us a desire to follow God's instuctions because we are a new creation one that no longer desires to walk in lawlessness but desires to walk in truth.

That was done through Messiah, He is the door, the light, the way

Its very obvious that you are having a difficult time comprehending what I am saying. Its like you are blinded by this God's Law is bad doctrine that is engrained in your mind and there is no reasoning beyond this. We must just agree to disagree at this point.
Shalom

John 1720 · Jun 22, 2017

listed said:
Pretty slick. I missed it the other day. Isa 11:10 does indeed speak of Jesus. It however doesn't speak of Jesus as Israel like some say Romans 11 does. Now you might say yes it does. There's a lot of difference between "a" and "the." Isaiah talks about a descendent and Romans talks about the Redeemer. Israel (Jesse) is in no way a redeemer. Israel isn't the vine, Jesus is (John 15:5). Answer your own question about the vine, is there more than one?

Hi listed,
Sir the voice you are contextualizing that 'you must become a Jew to possess salvation; isn't mine. We don't need to be Judaized in order to come to Christ. But that does not change the fact that we are either in Christ or we are not in Christ and, if we are in Christ, then we belong to Jesus. And if we belong to Jesus, the Vine, that Abba God, the Vinedresser, has grown since the beginning to its full promise we are one whether a natural branch or grafted in. The Abrahamic promise is that we, sons and daughters of Abraham, are blessed to be a blessing (via the Holy Spirit in us). The genesis of that good news was first made to Abraham. We then, Gentiles believers, are part of that original blessing as the Gospel goes to all ethne'; for yes we are one and the same tree which God has nurtured since the beginning. Causes are important and the Lord stating His "because" is integral to understanding the John 3:16 picture of God and His not withholding His only Son as His atoning sacrifice for us.

Genesis 22:16 "By Myself I have sworn, says the LORD, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son— blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."
Genesis 15:5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
Matthew 8:11 "And I (Jesus) say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven.

If we are Christian then one of those stars was lit for us; for the nations of the earth have been blessed through Abraham because we are his spiritual progeny by faith.

listed said:
John 10 doesn't or imply the one fold is Israel. Read the text. Jesus doesn't say He bring the other fold into the fold (Israel). Jesus says there will be one fold. There's no salvation in being a Jew part of Israel. There's salvation only through Jesus the Christ. John 3:16, 5:24 and 10:9 point to this fact. No one enters through Israel.Amen!

Of course the fold is Israel. A critical rule of hermeneutics is to first know what audience one is directly speaking to. John 10 continues from John 9 and in John 9:40 we see there that Jesus was speaking to Pharisees with His disciples present so it follows that in John 10:16 Jesus is speaking to a completely Jewish audience in Jerusalem, namely the apostles and Israelites listening to His parable. Every Bible commentator I know states the same
John 10:6 Commentaries: This figure of speech Jesus spoke to them, but they did not understand what those things were which He had been saying to them.

Matthew Henry on John 10:16 said:
He is acquainted with those that are hereafter to be of this flock (v. 16): Other sheep I have, have a right to and an interest in, which are not of this fold, of the Jewish church; them also I must bring. Observe
[a.] The eye that Christ had to the poor Gentiles. He had sometimes intimated his special concern for the lost sheep of the house of Israel; to them indeed his personal ministry was confined; but, saith he, I have other sheep. Those who in process of time should believe in Christ, and be brought into obedience to him from among the Gentiles, are here called sheep, and he is said to have them, though as yet they were uncalled, and many of them unborn, because they were chosen of God, and given to Christ in the counsels of divine love from eternity. Christ has a right, by virtue of the Father's donation and his own purchase, to many a soul of which he has not yet the possession; thus he had much people in Corinth, when as yet it lay in wickedness, Acts 18:10. "Those other sheep I have,'saith Christ, "I have them on my heart, have them in my eye, am as sure to have them as if I had them already.' Now Christ speaks of those other sheep

listed said:
If you really want to go the route of where the Gospel come through it is Eve as promised at the pronouncement of the curse (Genesis 3:15).Yes the Jews were honored above measure to have the Redeemer come through their linage. This doesn't mean a person has to becomea Jew to possess salvation.

You are confusing prophecy with promise.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise His heel.”

So right after the fall where the serpent deceived Eve and Adam followed into direct disobedience and sinfulness God prophesied there would be a sign. Initially it could only be seen as through a dim glass yet nevertheless it held promise for fallen humanity. It was the first inference to the coming of Christ for God promised that a seed (singular) would come from a woman (later prophesied to be a virgin girl) and that seed (understood to be the Christ) would have His heal bruised but that He would crush the head (the power) of the serpent (the devil). We all know Jesus was crucified but many others were crucified by Romans as well below and so we do have evidence of how this was done - a nail was driven through the heel-bone of a crucified victim as shown below.
crucifixion heel - Google Search:

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