New Heaven and Earth Discussion

Dartman

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Absolutely not.

The New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

The New Covenant is "everlasting" in the verse below.
Therefore, it does not come to an end before the Second Coming of Christ.


Heb 13:20  Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 

.
The Church age, (also called "the time of the Gentiles), ends with the second coming of Christ... not before.
 
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Daniel_

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I'm not getting out of Genesis 1:2 that the sea is a metaphor.
What I was meaning is that in the beginning, there was no order but God brought order and form out of the formless earth and brought the waters into its boundaries. There appears to be an echo of Genesis 1:2 in Revelation 21:1, it is bringing creation back into its proper order, no evil, sin, sickness, death etc. as we see in 21:1-5. So in context it would seem strange to me to be talking literally about the physical sea. As mentioned there must be a place for the sea creatures.
I have to agree with you there, dear. In the new heavens and earth, God would not want us to be separated. :)
This also makes good sense. I don't think the sea needs to be gone for people to not be separated though. Perhaps all the land will be connected and just less sea. We will most likely have to travel either way and it won't be boring or tedious. I can't wait for complete unity between God's people on God's beautifully restored earth. :)
 
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claninja

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Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
I see the last days of Israel here. I do not see where it says a NEW law.

What purpose did the first temple serve, since God didn't live in it either .... or the 2nd temple, since that condition was also true then??

Yes, both temples were destroyed. Yes Jehovah/YHVH God raised Jesus from hell 3 days after Jesus died. Yes, the true believers worship in mind/spirit and truth ...... do you think these random points erase the prophecies????

The first and second temple served a purpose according to the OT law. Certain sacrificial laws required the tabernacle, which became the temple after Solomon built it. Without the temple these laws cannot be followed. However, after the death of Christ (the perfect sacrifice), we do not need to follow sacrificial laws. A 3rd temple serves no other earthly purpose
 
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Dartman

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I see the last days of Israel here. I do not see where it says a NEW law.
No, this is the restoration of Israel. And, the law that goes forth from Zion applies to ALL the nations, something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. And, it teaches war is to NEVER be used, and it will produce peace ... something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. The Mosaic Law was from Sinai ... NOT from Zion.
claninja said:
The first and second temple served a purpose according to the OT law. Certain sacrificial laws required the tabernacle, which became the temple after Solomon built it. Without the temple these laws cannot be followed. However, after the death of Christ (the perfect sacrifice), we do not need to follow sacrificial laws. A 3rd temple serves no other earthly purpose
Your conclusion doesn't agree with the prophecies. They teach Israel would be punished, and scattered among the nations, and then in "the last days" would be restored. The apostles were still hoping for that restoration;
Acts 1:6-7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Rom 11:22-27 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 
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parousia70

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The gospel is "the good news", it never stops being good news.

I didn't ask you what the Everlasting Gospel was, I asked what you believe it is FOR? What purpose does it serve?

(Hint: See Revelation 14:6)

Does it ever cease in fulfilling its purpose?
Does it's purpose have a terminus?

You don't think any of the church will live in other ages??

What do you say is the function of the "Everlasting Church" after the Church age ends?

How does the Church exist apart from the Age of the Church?

Does not an end of the Church age necessitate an end of the Church?
 
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Old Moses

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I believe this represents heaven, a place that resembles earth as we know it today – same natural types of landscape, just no seas. It will be a more physical than spiritual place, only everything will be better. I’ve read that many scholars think the absence of sea means no danger from enemies.

Most people probably think so. Today’s realities are war, crime, hunger, sickness, aging—to mention just a few. Yet there is reason for hope. The Hebrew Scriptures foretell that God will create a “new heavens and a new earth” and that “the former things will not be called to mind, neither will they come up into the heart.”—Isaiah 65:17.

These “new heavens” and “new earth,” according to the Scriptures, are not a new material heavens or new literal earth. The physical earth and heavens were made perfect, and the Scriptures show they will remain forever. (Psalm 89:36, 37; 104:5) The “new earth” will be a righteous society of people living on earth, and the “new heavens” will be a perfect heavenly kingdom, or government, that will rule over this earthly society of people. But is it realistic to believe that “a new earth,” or glorious new world, is possible?
 
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parousia70

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Your conclusion doesn't agree with the prophecies. They teach Israel would be punished, and scattered among the nations, and then in "the last days" would be restored.
All the prophesies about a scattering AND REGATHERING of Israel were fulfilled at the end of the Babylonian captivity.

There is not one single prophesy, in the Old Testament or New, written AFTER the Babylonian captivity, that mentions any subsequent scattering AND REGATHERING.

Not even one.
 
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DamianWarS

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Revelation 21:1 says "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea." Personally, I've always been intrigued by this verse. I know there is no clear/obvious answer in regards to what the purpose of the new earth is for, but I want to hear everyone's views and ideas on this subject. What thoughts do you have concerning this passage?

I'm most intrigued about the "no more sea" part. 20:13 likens the sea with death and hades "And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them..." This passage is talking about the judgment of the unbelievers or the second death so the "sea" is being used here as a place of the dead for unbelievers... a type of "hell" The new heaven and new earth have no sea and that tells me both there is no death, no abode of the dead, and no hell.
 
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BABerean2

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No, this is the restoration of Israel. And, the law that goes forth from Zion applies to ALL the nations, something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. And, it teaches war is to NEVER be used, and it will produce peace ... something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. The Mosaic Law was from Sinai ... NOT from Zion.
Your conclusion doesn't agree with the prophecies. They teach Israel would be punished, and scattered among the nations, and then in "the last days" would be restored. The apostles were still hoping for that restoration;
Acts 1:6-7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Rom 11:22-27 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Based on the words of Christ found below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the Second Coming of Christ.


Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 



Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."



All of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel are fulfilled in the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Hebrews 8:6-13.

.
 
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Dartman

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I didn't ask you what the Everlasting Gospel was, I asked what you believe it is FOR? What purpose does it serve?
What it "is" establishes it's purpose. It is the good news. It's purpose is to inform the hearer, and IF the hearer OBEYS the gospel, it will save the hearer.
2 Thess 1:7-8 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

What does this verse mean to you?
 
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Dartman

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All the prophesies about a scattering AND REGATHERING of Israel were fulfilled at the end of the Babylonian captivity.

There is not one single prophesy, in the Old Testament or New, written AFTER the Babylonian captivity, that mentions any subsequent scattering AND REGATHERING.

Not even one.
Your denial isn't the least bit persuasive.
The restoration of Israel absolutely REQUIRES Christ's 2nd coming. Zech 14, Psa 2, Isa 61:2b-11 (Jesus already fulfilled Isa 61:1-2a, see Luke 4:16-22)
There are MANY more passages that describe the nation of Israel and the Gentile nations, like has never been in history.
There was NO time that the law from Zion brought PEACE to the rest of the world;
Isa 2:3-4 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

We know this is future!
 
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Dartman

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Based on the words of Christ found below, the times of the Gentiles ends at the Second Coming of Christ.


Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 



Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 

Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near."
Exactly. We totally agree on this point.

BABerean2 said:
All of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the restoration of Israel are fulfilled in the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Hebrews 8:6-13.
Sort of ... the problem with your statement is, Israel hasn't fulfilled this yet;
Luke 13:34-35 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

It is true, ONCE Israel is "grafted" back into the covenant promises, they WILL BE (future to us) restored;
Rom 11:22-27 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
 
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parousia70

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What it "is" establishes it's purpose. It is the good news. It's purpose is to inform the hearer, and IF the hearer OBEYS the gospel, it will save the hearer.

Correct.
See? I told you there is much we agree on :)

As you correctly cited, The SOLE purpose of the "Everlasting Gospel" is to be preached to sinners on earth to inform the sinner, and if the sinner obeys, it will save the sinner.

As I understand your view, you believe the "Everlasting Gospel" will one day cease to perform it's only function, right?

2 Thess 1:7-8
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

What does this verse mean to you?

It can only mean one of two things.

If the Event of Jesus being "revealed with His mighty angels taking vengeance" has yet to take place, then the only conclusion one can arrive at is that the 1st century Thessalonian congregation Paul was speaking to MUST STILL TODAY be suffering persecution at the hands of the 1st century people who were troubling them, and their persecutors have not yet been re payed with Tribulation (2 Thess 1:6)

OR

The 1st century Congregation Paul was speaking to IS TODAY AT REST and no longer suffering persecution at the hands of their 1st century Persecutors.

Those are the only two options.

Which do you believe is true?
 
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parousia70

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Sort of ... the problem with your statement is, Israel hasn't fulfilled this yet;
Luke 13:34-35 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! 35 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Who were these people then?:

Acts 2:22, 36-41
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:...
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Are these 3000 NOT Believing Israel?


It is true, ONCE Israel is "grafted" back into the covenant promises, they WILL BE (future to us) restored;
Rom 11:22-27 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.
 
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Dartman

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Correct.
See? I told you there is much we agree on :)

As you correctly cited, The SOLE purpose of the "Everlasting Gospel" is to be preached to sinners on earth to inform the sinner, and if the sinner obeys, it will save the sinner.

As I understand your view, you believe the "Everlasting Gospel" will one day cease to perform it's only function, right?
The "Everlasting" in the phrase isn't discussing it's purpose. It is referring to the duration of the good news. The Gospel is "Everlasting" because it promises Everlasting life.... and the "good" will endure forever.
parousia70 said:
It can only mean one of two things.

If the Event of Jesus being "revealed with His mighty angels taking vengeance" has yet to take place, then the only conclusion one can arrive at is that the 1st century Thessalonian congregation Paul was speaking to MUST STILL TODAY be suffering persecution at the hands of the 1st century people who were troubling them, and their persecutors have not yet been re payed with Tribulation (2 Thess 1:6)

OR

The 1st century Congregation Paul was speaking to IS TODAY AT REST and no longer suffering persecution at the hands of their 1st century Persecutors.

Those are the only two options.

Which do you believe is true?
Neither, of course.
The 1st century congregation IS today at rest, still waiting to be resurrected "at his coming", exactly as Paul stated in 1 Cor 15, and in the first letter Paul wrote to the church at Thesolonica... (1 Thess 4:13-18) .... and once resurrected, they will witness the "vengeance" Jesus has been commanded to perform;
Rev 19:11-21 ... And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 
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Dartman

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Who were these people then?:

Acts 2:22, 36-41
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:...
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Are these 3000 NOT Believing Israel?
What percentage of Israel do you think 3000 represents?
Do you think Paul was confused in Rom 11??
Do you think the Jews that were part of the church, are the ones "broken off" the vine?
Or, do you think the VAST majority of the Jews are what Paul is discussing in Rom 11, and that the VAST majority did NOT accept Jesus?

Parousia70 said:
The term "Fullness of the Gentiles" is oft equated with the notion of quantity, amount, or number count of Gentile believers, but does scripture support such a notion?

By comparing scripture with scripture we clearly see that "fullness" does not equate with "full number", but rather the fullness of Gods grace:

John 1:16
And of his fullness have all we received, and grace for grace.

Romans 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

(This is especially instructive for us in that "fullness" is considered here to the the opposite of "fall", and in no way can be construed as a numeric value.)

Romans 15:29 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fullness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ.

Ephesians 1:23 Which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.

The list goes on........

The notion of fullness in the NT carries the idea of "totality of Gods blessings and grace", and not a certain number of people.

Gentile believers are not waiting to become "full partakers" of the Grace of God, rather The Gentiles are already FULL PARTAKERS of the grace of God.

The "Fulness of the gentiles" came in 2000 years ago.
Your attempt to spin the term "fullness" ignores ALL the other texts on the subject.
Luke 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shallbe led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

If you believe the daily news, (and I grant they are VERY hit and miss), we are still waiting for THIS to come to pass. This is one time the media gets it right.
 
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claninja

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you said yes to "lets go back to questions to you in my post #62...Do You believe Human Beings will be required to render Blood Animal Sacrifices"

I would tread carefully with statements like this, as it appears blasphemous. This would be belittling the sacrifice of Christ. Christ died once for all, to put away sin, and secure eternal redemption. Any animal sacrifice to God is pointless, if not an abomination now after the sacrifice of his Son. Go and learn what this means friend, God desires mercy not sacrifice.
Hebrews 9:12
he entered once for all into the Holy Place, taking not the blood of goats and calves but his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:24-26
For Christ has entered, not into a sanctuary made with hands, a copy of the true one, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the Holy Place yearly with blood not his own; 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hebrews 10:4-7
For it is impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins. Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings thou hast not desired, but a body hast thou prepared for me; in burnt offerings and sin offerings thou hast taken no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Lo, I have come to do thy will, O God,’as it is written of me in the roll of the book.”
Hebrews 10:9-10
then he added, “Lo, I have come to do thy will.” He abolishes the first in order to establish the second. 10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

No, this is the restoration of Israel. And, the law that goes forth from Zion applies to ALL the nations, something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. And, it teaches war is to NEVER be used, and it will produce peace ... something the Mosaic Law NEVER did. The Mosaic Law was from Sinai ... NOT from Zion.

There is only the law of Christ: to love God above all else and to love your neighbor as yourself, which is written on our hearts and minds.
Hebrews 10:15-18
And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord:I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds,” then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their misdeeds no more.” Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin.

If animal sacrifices are required in the future, Christ's sacrifice was not enough, there is no longer forgiveness of sins, and we have no hope.

Your conclusion doesn't agree with the prophecies. They teach Israel would be punished, and scattered among the nations, and then in "the last days" would be restored. The apostles were still hoping for that restoration;
Acts 1:6-7 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Rom 11:22-27 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Matt 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
All of the Jews were waiting for the messiah to come and restore Israel back to a world power. I'm not the least bit surprised they asked this. In the great commission (Matthew 28:19) Jesus tells the disciples to go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS. What is funny, is that Peter did not know he could associate with gentiles until God told him he could, Acts 10:28, which took place much later than the great commission. The point is, is that the disciples did not fully understand the kingdom during the time of Jesus' life and beginning of Acts. When you quote Acts 1:6-7, they didn't know what they were even asking.


So from quoting these verses and through your interpretation of them, here is what I am gathering that you believe:
1.) Israel will be a kingdom again with a 3rd temple and a new law (like the OT law but not really) will be established requiring animal sacrifices. All nations will worship Jesus/God in this way.
2.) The Deliverer has not come out of Zion yet to take away sins, because according to you and the verse you quoted above, this will happen at the end of the kosmos (world).
3.) Christ is not sitting on throne of glory yet, because according to you and the scripture you quoted, this will happen at the end of the kosmos (world).
 
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parousia70

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The 1st century congregation IS today at rest,

Really?
WHEN did Paul say they would be at rest?

" and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels"

Only then
would they be at rest from their persecution.
Not sometime before as you seem to assert.
 
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claninja

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What percentage of Israel do you think 3000 represents?

100% Jewish, as peter, until Acts 10, thought it was unlawful for jews to associate with gentiles or other nations, other than Israel. As far as what percentage of Israel was saved we don't know for sure. But we do know God, throughout Israel's history, always kept a remnant for himself.
 
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claninja

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Do you think Paul was confused in Rom 11??
Do you think the Jews that were part of the church, are the ones "broken off" the vine?
Or, do you think the VAST majority of the Jews are what Paul is discussing in Rom 11, and that the VAST majority did NOT accept Jesus?

Do you think God will save everyone as Paul states "all men have been consigned to disobedience so that God may have mercy on all." ? Romans 11:32
 
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