What does salvation or being saved mean and how do we obtain it ?

Quasar92

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In the most simple way it can be described is the following:

1. First of all: "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." Rom.3:23a. In other words, we are all separated from God, until...

2. "...and are justified freely by His grace, through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom.3:23b.
"God presented Him as a sacrifice of atonement through faith in His blood..." Rom.3:26a. In other words, God gave up His Son to shed His blood and die, a sacrificial death, in our place, paying our sin debts in full, past, present and future, for everyone who believes in Him.

3. "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." Jn.3:16.

4. "That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved." Rom.10:9-10.

5. "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in Him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession - to the glory of His name." Eph.1:13-14.

6. "For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." Rom.8:29-30.

7. The Scriptures also tell us the following: "Whoever believes in Him [Jesus] is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in Him, is condemned already." Jn.3:18. Until they confess and believe anytime during their lifetime, as addressed above.

8. Upon believing/receiving Jesus as our Lord and Savior, He gives/baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, immediately. Mt.3:11. Providing us with His promise of our salvation and eternal life. Jn.3:16. Then, as Peter said, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38.


God bless!


Quasar92
 

Acts2:38

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8. Upon believing/receiving Jesus as our Lord and Savior, He gives/baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, immediately. Mt.3:11. Providing us with His promise of our salvation and eternal life. Jn.3:16. Then, as Peter said, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins." Acts 2:38.

Honest reading of scripture shows in Acts 2:38, they received the Holy Spirit once they were baptized, not before they were baptized. Combined with Mark 16:15-16 you are not saved until you are baptized and in the body of Christ.

John 3:3 and 5
Romans 6:1-4
1 Peter 3:21
Galatians 3:27

You are baptized "FOR" the remission of sins, not "because of".

You wash your clothes because they are dirty, not because they are clean.

The Greek word "for" in Acts 2:38 is εἰς eis, ice; a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), into, unto, to, towards, for, among.

I don't see "because of" here.
 
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Quasar92

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Honest reading of scripture shows in Acts 2:38, they received the Holy Spirit once they were baptized, not before they were baptized. Combined with Mark 16:15-16 you are not saved until you are baptized and in the body of Christ.

John 3:3 and 5
Romans 6:1-4
1 Peter 3:21
Galatians 3:27

You are baptized "FOR" the remission of sins, not "because of".

You wash your clothes because they are dirty, not because they are clean.

The Greek word "for" in Acts 2:38 is εἰς eis, ice; a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), into, unto, to, towards, for, among.

I don't see "because of" here.


An honest rendering of the Scriptures in the OP provides you with the facts pertaining to Jesus providing us the Holy Spirit, at the moment we confess Him as our Lord and Savior. Peter was referring to water baptism, which is all they knew and understood at the time of Pentecost.


Quasar92
 
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Acts2:38

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An honest rendering of the Scriptures in the OP provides you qith the facts pertaining to Jesus providing us the Holy Spirit, at the moment we confess Him as our Lord and Savior. Peter was referring to water baptism, which is all they knew and understood at the time of Pentecost.


Quasar92

wasn't just Peter, it was Paul and Jesus himself that said you are saved upon baptism.

Verses again:
John 3:3 and 5
Romans 6:1-4
1 Peter 3:21
Galatians 3:27

And again:
You are baptized "FOR" the remission of sins, not "because of".

You wash your clothes because they are dirty, not because they are clean.

The Greek word "for" in Acts 2:38 is εἰς eis, ice; a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), into, unto, to, towards, for, among.

I don't see "because of" here.
 
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ViaCrucis

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An honest rendering of the Scriptures in the OP provides you with the facts pertaining to Jesus providing us the Holy Spirit, at the moment we confess Him as our Lord and Savior. Peter was referring to water baptism, which is all they knew and understood at the time of Pentecost.


Quasar92

Of course St. Peter was referring to "water baptism", that's what baptism is. If I told you that I bathed today, I shouldn't have to tell you that it was with water, that would be redundant--nobody is going to assume that I bathed in sand or in orange juice.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Quasar92

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Of course St. Peter was referring to "water baptism", that's what baptism is. If I told you that I bathed today, I shouldn't have to tell you that it was with water, that would be redundant--nobody is going to assume that I bathed in sand or in orange juice.

-CryptoLutheran


FYI, baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus when you believed and received Jim as your Lord and Savior, is what makes you a Born Again Christian and provides your salvation from Jesus, as recorded in Mt.3:11.


Quasar92
 
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ViaCrucis

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FYI, baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus when you believed and received Jim as your Lord and Savior, is what makes you a Born Again Christian and provides your salvation from Jesus, as recorded in Mt.3:11.


Quasar92

Matthew 3:11, as well as its parallel in Mark 1:8 and Luke 3:16 all refer to what happened on Pentecost and the second time at Cornelius' house: Acts 1:5, Acts ch. 2; Acts ch. 10, Acts 11:16.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit, going entirely by what Scripture itself says on the topic, refers to the outpouring of the Spirit which happened on Pentecost, and at Cornelius' house. It is never used in reference to when Christians believe and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. That isn't a biblical teaching.

Just FYI.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Acts2:38

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FYI, baptism of the Holy Spirit by Jesus when you believed and received Jim as your Lord and Savior, is what makes you a Born Again Christian and provides your salvation from Jesus, as recorded in Mt.3:11.


Quasar92

No my friend.

Romans 6:1-4 - When you are buried with Christ and then rise anew (baptism- 1 Peter 3:20-21)

Galatians 3:27 = Only when you are baptized you put on Christ and are part of His body (Romans 12; Acts 2:38, 41, 47; 1 Corinthians 12)

James 2:14-26 = Just belief alone will not save you, you must obey Jesus' commands. One of His commands is to believe and be baptized (Mark 16:16; Matthew 28:19-20; John 14:15; John 15:14)

These scriptures are undeniable and irrefutable.
 
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Quasar92

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Matthew 3:11, as well as its parallel in Mark 1:8 and Luke 3:16 all refer to what happened on Pentecost and the second time at Cornelius' house: Acts 1:5, Acts ch. 2; Acts ch. 10, Acts 11:16.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit, going entirely by what Scripture itself says on the topic, refers to the outpouring of the Spirit which happened on Pentecost, and at Cornelius' house. It is never used in reference to when Christians believe and receive Jesus as Lord and Savior. That isn't a biblical teaching.

Just FYI.

-CryptoLutheran


Were all those who were present at Pentecost filled with the Holy Spirit when He arrived? Then what is the difference from that, to when a person hears the Gospel, believes and receives Jesus as their Lord and Savior? Of course they become a member of the one body of Christ, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, He gives us at that very moment, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13.

If you've never heard that before, you have now, and it is a Christian teaching.


Quasar92
 
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ViaCrucis

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Were all those who were present at Pentecost filled with the Holy Spirit when He arrived? Then what is the difference from that, to when a person hears the Gospel, believes and receives Jesus as their Lord and Savior? Of course they become a member of the one body of Christ, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, He gives us at that very moment, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13.

Baptism with the Holy Spirit isn't when someone receives the Holy Spirit. It's the act of God publicly pouring out the Spirit as a specific historical event. That's the difference.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 doesn't mention baptism with the Holy Spirit, it mentions baptism.

it is a Christian teaching.

It's a popular modern Evangelical teaching, but it's not biblical, and it's not historically Christian.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Quasar92

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Baptism with the Holy Spirit isn't when someone receives the Holy Spirit. It's the act of God publicly pouring out the Spirit as a specific historical event. That's the difference.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 doesn't mention baptism with the Holy Spirit, it mentions baptism.



It's a popular modern Evangelical teaching, but it's not biblical, and it's not historically Christian.

-CryptoLutheran


As I previously stated, all believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus the instant they receive Him as Lord and Savior, as recorded i8n 1 Cr.12:12-13.

12 "Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."


Quasar92
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ViaCrucis

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As I previously stated, all believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus the instant they receive Him as Lord and Savior, as recorded i8n 1 Cr.12:12-13.

12 "Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body—whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free and we were all given the one Spirit to drink."

Quasar92
:

Okay, so you and I are both looking at these same two verses, and yet somehow you're seeing "all believers are baptized with the Holy Spirit by Jesus the instant they receive Him as Lord and Savior", and all I'm seeing is "For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free, and we were all given one Spirit to drink." Nothing there about baptism with the Holy Spirit or it being receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Acts2:38

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Maybe reading from the NIV is confusing you? The NIV is as bout as good as a paper weight at the bottom of the trash can.

Try the ASV or KJV, maybe it will help you understand better.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Baptized is explained as being immersed in water. Not just to get wet or remove filth off your body as stated in 1 Peter 3:21.

You are only saved when you get baptized because of your belief (verb/action word) Acts 2:38; Galatians 3:27; Romans 6:1-4; Acts 8:37-39; so on and so forth.

None of those verses even remotely indicate saved upon belief without baptism (immersion in water for remission of sins).

ViaCrucis has actually explained it pretty well and didn't need my help. It seems as though you wish not to discuss with me any further either since you have not refuted the verses I put down. I hope maybe he can get through to you about this matter.
 
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