Revelation is kicking my posterior

Rik Brooks

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I just don't understand Revelation 5:13

And every creature which is in Heaven and on the Earth and under the Earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them. I heard saying:

J Vernon McGee takes this literally. Jellyfish are going to sing God's praises (nevermind that they have no mouth with which to do so).

The MacArthur commentary says that this is a common phrase indicating massive number and is not to be taken literally. It leaves the door open to say that the lost that are about to undergo the tribulation aren't singing praises to God.

...But the Moody Commentary says "...even the lost will be compelled to praise the Lord." Php 2:9-11

So, BEFORE the Tribulation the lost, the Athiests, the Pagans, those who have turned their backs on God will fall to their knees That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow Then they get up from their knees and turn their backs on Him again, marching off with the Beast and the Anti-Christ who are about to make their appearance.

Is this what I am to believe?
 

sdowney717

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John is actually seeing into the 'eternal state', experiencing the eternal kingdom, the eternal glory of God and Christ, not the current state of things in that part of Rev 5.

The reality is the eternal kingdom of God which we have not fully yet seen far surpasses the temporary affliction of this present age.


2 Corinthians 4:16-17

16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison, while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.
 
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Ken Rank

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I just don't understand Revelation 5:13

And every creature which is in Heaven and on the Earth and under the Earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them. I heard saying:

J Vernon McGee takes this literally. Jellyfish are going to sing God's praises (nevermind that they have no mouth with which to do so).

The MacArthur commentary says that this is a common phrase indicating massive number and is not to be taken literally. It leaves the door open to say that the lost that are about to undergo the tribulation aren't singing praises to God.

...But the Moody Commentary says "...even the lost will be compelled to praise the Lord." Php 2:9-11

So, BEFORE the Tribulation the lost, the Athiests, the Pagans, those who have turned their backs on God will fall to their knees That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow Then they get up from their knees and turn their backs on Him again, marching off with the Beast and the Anti-Christ who are about to make their appearance.

Is this what I am to believe?
I would read the entire OT, especially ALL of the Prophets (if you haven't in full), before touching Revelation, just saying.

As for all of creation... I don't know about the jellyfish but I will say this.... the word of God (Job 38:7) states that the stars "sing to God." Literal or abstract? Well, modern science, a few thousand years after this line was found in Job, determined that every star emits a unique radio frequency. That means, in perhaps a language we don't comprehend at all, that the idea of the stars "singing" seems less abstract and more literal with this new scientific understanding. What about the rest of creation? Well, matter is made up of what atoms and molecules are made of, meaning anything made of positively charged protons, neutral neutrons, and negatively charged electrons. And these things are in motion, outside of our ability to detect without instruments of magnification, but they are in motion and if in motion, there is sound even if we cannot hear it.

As for Moody and others with his position... perhaps all will bow. We know that in the Millennial Kingdom that the nations (filled with those who haven't been perfected?) will come and worship during times like Sukkot (Feast of Tabernacles) and will be punished if they don't (see Zechariah 14:16-19). However, if you believe in a literal hell, then I would think it would be full of those who didn't or won't bow.
 
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Rik Brooks

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I would read the entire OT, especially ALL of the Prophets (if you haven't in full), before touching Revelation, just saying.

Oh I did. Before starting to dig into the Bible I read every word. Took me a year. Now I'm studying. The reason that I started studying Revelation first is that the Dallas Theological Seminary is offering a free online course on Revelation an I just couldn't pass that up.

Well, modern science, a few thousand years after this line was found in Job, determined that every star emits a unique radio frequency. That means, in perhaps a language we don't comprehend at all, that the idea of the stars "singing" seems less abstract and more literal with this new scientific understanding...

I read that somewhere a while back. It's a very good point.
 
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Ken Rank

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Oh I did. Before starting to dig into the Bible I read every word. Took me a year. Now I'm studying. The reason that I started studying Revelation first is that the Dallas Theological Seminary is offering a free online course on Revelation an I just couldn't pass that up.

Glad you didn't take that comment negatively. Many Christians today do not read it all and then, when reading Revelation, seem bent on trying to align it all to Daniel when most of the OT is quoted at some point. There really isn't much in Revelation that isn't stated in the Prophets, and if we read and study the Prophets, Revelation becomes much easier to read.
 
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Archmike

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Chapter 5 is nothing more than an introductory chapter to the revealing of the 7 seals.

Christ takes the scroll as the only person worthy to take the scroll in heaven and earth, and then John is heard by everyone in heaven and earth saying, " blessing and honor and glory and power, etc...."

Then chapter 6 starts, and the unsealing of the first seal.
 
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Aseyesee

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I just don't understand Revelation 5:13

And every creature which is in Heaven and on the Earth and under the Earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them. I heard saying:

J Vernon McGee takes this literally. Jellyfish are going to sing God's praises (nevermind that they have no mouth with which to do so).

The MacArthur commentary says that this is a common phrase indicating massive number and is not to be taken literally. It leaves the door open to say that the lost that are about to undergo the tribulation aren't singing praises to God.

...But the Moody Commentary says "...even the lost will be compelled to praise the Lord." Php 2:9-11

So, BEFORE the Tribulation the lost, the Athiests, the Pagans, those who have turned their backs on God will fall to their knees That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow Then they get up from their knees and turn their backs on Him again, marching off with the Beast and the Anti-Christ who are about to make their appearance.

Is this what I am to believe?

John was in the spirit on the Lord's day (as opposed to man's day, 6th day) so what he saw must be referenced as to where he was seeing from; Paul defined this revelation as something firstly happening in him which is paramount in understanding the whole book let alone this one at the end of the book.
 
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Ken Rank

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John was in the spirit on the Lord's day (as opposed to man's day, 6th day) so what he saw must be referenced as to where he was seeing from; Paul defined this revelation as something firstly happening in him which is paramount in understanding the whole book let alone this one at the end of the book.
What does that mean, Sunday? The "Lord's Day" is the "Day of the Lord" written about in the prophets. John saw that which was, is and will be... and he saw this while in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord... he was looking at the end times from the end times, that was his perspective, respectfully.
 
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Aseyesee

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What does that mean, Sunday? The "Lord's Day" is the "Day of the Lord" written about in the prophets. John saw that which was, is and will be... and he saw this while in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord... he was looking at the end times from the end times, that was his perspective, respectfully.

And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I take at hand to mean, within reach.
 
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Ken Rank

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And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

I take at hand to mean, within reach.
I was wondering what you meant by the "Lord's Day" not being the 6th day, "man's day?" Not trying to argue but unless you are speaking in spiritual terms... the 6th day, the Sabbath, is something Jesus is "Lord of" and a day God created, not man. And, "the Lord's Day" (or "the Day of the Lord") is the end times as written about in the prophets, i.e. Joel 2:31
 
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Aseyesee

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I was wondering what you meant by the "Lord's Day" not being the 6th day, "man's day?" Not trying to argue but unless you are speaking in spiritual terms... the 6th day, the Sabbath, is something Jesus is "Lord of" and a day God created, not man. And, "the Lord's Day" (or "the Day of the Lord") is the end times as written about in the prophets, i.e. Joel 2:31

There are two consecutive themes running through the bible, the aim of the second (week) which (as you say, spiritually speaking (which is how I think, or relate to things), was before the world was, is about identification, which is the purpose of creation; as Paul said, a purpose God purposed in himself.

Paul coined mount Sinai as a woman who births a son, and God, Israel as his first born, and as his wife. Jesus spoke to an earthly Jerusalem, with her children in bondage as revelation speaks to her as Egypt, Sodom (why not Gomorrah is found in the king of Sodom), Babylon, a harlot, a great city, and the place where the Lord was crucified, which like the Jordan, rolls all the way back to a city named Adam; Christ crucified from the foundation of the world.

God starts with one son and ends with one son in all (I am the beginning and the end, the first and the last (through a son.God all in all).
 
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Aseyesee

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To clarify (in the bible) the 6th day, becomes a day of a double portion (in the wilderness) (first born son) which is what leads us into a great rest (the gospel being preached) whereby he causes us to rest (a no remembrance of former things).
 
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Ken Rank

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To clarify (in the bible) the 6th day, becomes a day of a double portion (in the wilderness) (first born son) which is what leads us into a great rest (the gospel being preached) whereby he causes us to rest (a no remembrance of former things).
We don't agree at all on this, but that's fine. :) Thanks for clarifying and be blessed.
 
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