Question in the sabbath

Acts2:38 said:

I corrected myself when looking further into Romans 14. You could if you wish to observe it, however it is not binding to Christians. It is no longer needed. You could do it if you wish but to press others to do it would be a sin (see Romans 14).

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Acts2:38 said:

Its not a command anymore. Its done away with. Although I am very happy to praise God everyday and meet with my fellow Christians to praise God any time and day, the command to meet on the first day of the week is a must, not the sabbath.

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From
David Guzik :: Study Guide for Colossians 2

d. Having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us: The handwriting of requirements has in mind a list of our crimes or moral debt before God, a debt that no imperfect person can completely pay. But it can be taken out of the way, by payment from a perfect man, Jesus Christ.

i. The term handwriting is a general word for a handwritten document, and has been understood in various ways. Some take it in a legal sense and say it represents charges against a prisoner, or a confession to wrong that the prisoner has made. Others take it in a financial sense and see it as a debit or ledger sheet that shows we are bankrupt before God. Either way, it means that the document that once condemned us is now taken out of the way, having been nailed to the cross.

ii. "Each of the ten commandments has, as it were, united with the rest to draw up an indictment against us. The first commandment says, 'He has broken me.' The second cries, 'He has broken me,' - the third, 'He has broken me;' and the whole ten together have laid the same charge against each one of us; that is the handwriting of the law condemning every man of woman born while he remains in a state of nature." (Spurgeon)

iii. "It might even be said that he took the document, ordinances and all, and nailed it to his cross as an act of triumphant defiance in the face of those blackmailing powers that were holding it over men and women in order to command their allegiance." (Bruce)

iv. According to Vincent, the ancient Greek word translated wiped out is a compound of the word to anoint and the prefix that means completely. The idea is that something was completely wiped over, and in the ancient world the term was used of whitewashing a wall, or overlaying a wall with gold. It means that the accusations against us were completely wiped away and covered over.

e. Having nailed it to the cross: Jesus not only paid for the writing that was against us; He also took it out of the way, and then nailed it to the cross. He did everything possible to make certain that the handwriting of requirements that was against us could no longer accuse us.

i. "Paul, looking at the cross, saw there instead the titulus that expressed the charge against all Jesus' people, the written code that stood over against them, disqualifying them from the life of the new age. And it was God, not Pilate, that put it there." (Wright)

ii. We remember that the accusations of Jesus' crime were nailed to the cross and hung above His head (Matthew 27:37). Since we are identified with Jesus in His death on the cross (Romans 6:3-8), it is as if the handwriting of requirements that was against us was also nailed to the cross, just like the accusation against Jesus.

Matthew Henry :: Commentary on Colossians 2

• II. Through him we have the remission of sin: Having forgiven you all trespasses. This is our quickening. The pardon of the crime is the life of the criminal: and this is owing to the resurrection of Christ, as well as his death; for, as he died for our sins, so he rose again for our justification, Rom. 4:25.
• III. Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,
  • 1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing.This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us fromthe curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal. 3:13. He cancelled the obligation for all who repent and believe. "Upon me be the curse, my father.' He vacated and disannulled the judgment which was against us. When he was nailed to the cross, the curse was as it were nailed to the cross. And our indwelling corruption is crucified with Christ, and by virtue of his cross. When we remember the dying of the Lord Jesus, and see him nailed to the cross, we should see the hand-writing against us taken out of the way. Or rather,
  • 2. It must be understood of the ceremonial law, the hand-writing of ordinances, the ceremonial institutions or the law of commandments contained in ordinances (Eph. 2:15), which was a yoke to the Jews and a partition-wall to the Gentiles. The Lord Jesus took it out of the way, nailed it to his cross; that is, disannulled the obligation of it, that all might see and be satisfied that it was no more binding. When the substance came, the shadows fled away. It is abolished (2 Co. 3:13), and that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away, Heb. 8:13. The expressions are in allusion to the ancient methods of cancelling a bond, either by crossing the writing or striking it through with a nail.

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• It is easy to find many Christian commentaries supporting your view, but they all take Colossians 2 out of context and force it to say what they want it to. Paul concludes his "handwriting" argument by saying;
  • Wherefore if ye be dead with from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, (Touch not; taste not; handle not; Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines of men?
• 
  
• Man made ordinances, commandments and doctrines (dogma) are the issue in Colossians 2, NOT YHWH's commandments.

Combining Colossians here and Hebrews, is actually proving you blind to the truth. I will not argue further with you. Its in scripture and the words are as plain as day. Believe what you wish, its not on me.

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Again, the point is the sabbath. It is no longer a command. The new directive is meeting on the first day of the week (Sunday), to take the Lords supper "in remembrance" of what Christ did for us on the cross. Christ has been quoted several times in reference to the Jews being angry that Jesus did work on the sabbath. Remember verses like "which of you will not help an ox out of the ditch" (may not be word for word but you get the point) type sayings. Those there were nice subtle ways Jesus was telling the Jews.

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visionary said:

If Yeshua were to walk the earth today, would He not do as He did when He walked the first time, since God never changes......He would be attending Sabbath services.

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gadar perets said:

You have not given me the specific verses in Hebrews that you are referring to.

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Acts2:38 said:

The same chapters I've been referring to 8, 9, and 10

Look, you are pretty set and determined after the evidence I shown. I am not twisting your arm, believe what you wish. Just drop the subject with me now as you will not shake my knowledge of what scripture has shown me.

I appreciate the time spent with you and bid you a wonderful day.

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visionary said:

If Yeshua were to walk the earth today, would He not do as He did when He walked the first time, since God never changes......He would be attending Sabbath services.

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Open Heart said:

I wish I could answer this.

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Northwest Savant said:

Unfortunately, the study of whether Gentiles must obey the Sabbath laws (or Jewish descendants becoming Christians for that matter), may take a person years or even a lifetime of studying the scriptures to come up with a belief system only to come across someone else challenging that belief creating uncertainty.

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Steve Petersen said:

The better promises of the new covenant are the promises that God made to the Jewish people:

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Northwest Savant said:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?"

And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

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Northwest Savant said:

I believe it is more important to decide what TO DO on any given day, as opposed to reading what others state is forbidden. Christ performed good on every day, as if every day was a Sabbath of the Lord.

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Northwest Savant said:

Unfortunately, the study of whether Gentiles must obey the Sabbath laws (or Jewish descendants becoming Christians for that matter), may take a person years or even a lifetime of studying the scriptures to come up with a belief system only to come across someone else challenging that belief creating uncertainty. There is something I have learned to point out to acquaintances that are learning the scriptures for the first time, and are trying to figure out whether to keep the Sabbath or not.

The Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 is the part of the agreement that Israel must keep in which God states to the Hebrews what they can not do (ie. "Thou shalt not...."), which come from the Covenant God made with the Israelites in Exodus 19:4-6. The Sabbath Day Commandment likewise states what things the Israelites can not do in order to keep the day Holy.

The New Covenant that Jesus brought forth, focuses on what a believer in Christ can do as part of the Covenant. In Matthew 22, a lawyer, asked Jesus a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Rather than state what the disciples and his followers are forbidden to do, Jesus states “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Jesus points out what you are TO DO, not what thou shalt not do!

When it comes to the Sabbath day, Jesus also shows what TO DO, rather than what thou shalt not do.

In Matthew 12:1-4 & 9-12 we read:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!” But He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?"

And they asked Him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”—that they might accuse Him. Then He said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

What Commandment does Jesus state TO DO? "to do good on the Sabbath".

Does Jesus state that God the Father is idle and only resting on the Sabbath? In John5:16-17 we read:

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

My point is that some one may contemplate whether they are sinning by going to Church on Sunday rather than Saturday, or going to the grocery store on the Sabbath, or beginning the Sabbath at sundown, or keeping it when crossing the international dateline, or keeping any 24-hour day Holy in the manner that the Pharisees state is in compliance with the Law. But by beginning your journey into this subject by focusing on doing good (God's will) on any Sabbath Day or even everyday, are you then showing that rather than loving the law of the Pharisees, you instead love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, until you have completed the search for the truth? I believe it is more important to decide what TO DO on any given day, as opposed to reading what others state is forbidden. Christ performed good on every day, as if every day was a Sabbath of the Lord.

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gadar perets said:

Yes, Messiah performed good on every day. Among the good things he did on the 7th day was to obey his Father by not doing the kind of work his Father forbid.

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Northwest Savant said:

Can you give me one New Testament scripture verse stating what work Jesus did NOT perform on the Sabbath that his Father forbid?

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Northwest Savant said:

Can you give me one New Testament scripture verse stating what work Jesus did NOT perform on the Sabbath that his Father forbid?

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Northwest Savant said:

Christ performed good on every day, as if every day was a Sabbath of the Lord.

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gadar perets said:

Hebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.​

This verse teaches us that Yeshua obeyed every commandment found in Torah, including the Sabbath. Therefore, he obeyed his Father by not doing any kind of forbidden work, otherwise he would have sinned. For example, he did not kindle a fire on the Sabbath day (Exodus 35:3).

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Northwest Savant said:

I have not found the verse in the New Testament that states that Jesus did not kindle a fire on the Sabbath Day because it was forbidden. Can you give me one New Testament scripture verse stating what work Jesus did NOT perform on the Sabbath that his Father forbid?

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CherubRam said:

If Christ was a law breaker, then he could not have been the perfect lamb of sacrifice.

God heals on the Sabbath

John 5

King James Version (KJV)

16 And therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17 But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.


Matthew 12:3. He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4. He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? 6. I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. 7. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. 8. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."



Since the disciples were only getting something to eat, and not harvesting the field, then they were innocent. I also see scripture that says that they went to the synagogue or each other’s house on the seventh day. And Paul after preaching on the seventh day also instructs Christians to gather on the first day to do some work. So where can I find this Sunday commandment?



Romans 9:6. It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7. Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary, "It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned." 8. In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. 9. For this was how the promise was stated: "At the appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son."

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Northwest Savant said:

I have not found the verse in the New Testament that states that Jesus did not kindle a fire on the Sabbath Day because it was forbidden. Can you give me one New Testament scripture verse stating what work Jesus did NOT perform on the Sabbath that his Father forbid?

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