Gideon

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To explain the New Testament understanding of the true Israel of God, I would like to offer this simple diagram.

israelofgod.svg


I hope it makes this important subject clear, and I welcome any discussion.

If image does not show, please go here:
 
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BABerean2

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To explain the New Testament understanding of the true Israel of God, I would like to offer this simple diagram.

israelofgod.svg


I hope it makes this important subject clear, and I welcome any discussion.

If image does not show, please go here:


I could not see the larger version until I hit the "reply" button.
Now I can see it.

Then it disappeared when I hit the post button.

It was also really small at your website and I was not smart enough to make it bigger.


Just wanted to let you know.

.
 
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Gideon

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Thanks BABerean. I put it up because its sad how the subject of Israel has become polarized. I think that a national revival is coming for the natural descendants of Jacob. Perhaps we will see the beginnings of it in our lifetime. I hope so.

Yes, pictures are a problem on the Internet. Im experimenting with a new format called SVG. What is the size is the device you're using?
 
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keras

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I think that a national revival is coming for the natural descendants of Jacob. Perhaps we will see the beginnings of it in our lifetime. I hope so.
Perhaps you could tell us who the natural descendants of Jacob are. Those whom God knows are His people. Amos 9:9, Titus 2:11-14, + And why they should receive a special redemption.
Remember, they are as many as the sands of the sea, so cannot be just the Jewish people.
 
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BABerean2

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Thanks BABerean. I put it up because its sad how the subject of Israel has become polarized. I think that a national revival is coming for the natural descendants of Jacob. Perhaps we will see the beginnings of it in our lifetime. I hope so.

Yes, pictures are a problem on the Internet. Im experimenting with a new format called SVG. What is the size is the device you're using?

I am still using my wife's old HP laptop running Windows 7.

There is now a new Bible college in central Israel which is made up of students of both Jewish and Arab heritage. They have done an excellent job overall of reaching out to modern Jews. The name of the organization is ONE FOR ISRAEL.

It is my belief that an understanding of the New Covenant is the key to taking the Gospel to the Jewish people.

Thank you Brother for what you have done to reveal the truth of the ancient Hebrew calendar.


 
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Gideon

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Perhaps you could tell us who the natural descendants of Jacob are. Those whom God knows are His people. Amos 9:9, Titus 2:11-14, + And why they should receive a special redemption.
Remember, they are as many as the sands of the sea, so cannot be just the Jewish people.

I agree, the "sands of the sea" part must surely refer to more than a single ethnic nation. Can you view my picture? I have tried to differentiate between the wider "Israel of God" and the national Israel. Both aspects are mentioned in prophecy.
 
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4x4toy

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One of the most unnoticed miracles . Has there ever been any other Jewish nation ? A people scattered for 2000 yrs to foreign nations yet retaining their language , history and religion intact , hated with little communion with God , now united back to the land of Judea by even more unnoticed miracles and means but still necessary for all End Time fulfilling of Prophecy as it is written . Talk about some folks not seeing the forest for the trees .. Nice thread Gideon
 
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keras

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I agree, the "sands of the sea" part must surely refer to more than a single ethnic nation. Can you view my picture? I have tried to differentiate between the wider "Israel of God" and the national Israel. Both aspects are mentioned in prophecy.
Your diagram is good, excepting for the Jews coming back into the stream of God's people at the end. Bible prophecy does not say that ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, will receive any special redemption.
In fact prophecy says they will be wiped out for their sins and only a Christian remnant will be saved. Isaiah 22:14, Ezekiel 21:4, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 8:5-12, Luke 19:27, Matthew 21:41-43, Romans 9:27 Who will join their brethren, as all the Christians go to live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 37

The idea of a Jewish redemption is an immutable tenet of the false rapture theory and is therefore, a lie upon a lie.
 
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Gideon

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But Zechariah describes their conversion immediately preceding Christ's return. Not in very easy circumstances unfortunately. He gives the background surrounding the conversion of the Jews. How do you read chapter 12?

I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations ... On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem. “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. (Zech 12:2-11)

Thus the Jewish nation will be saved and united with believers in the true Israel of God. Yes?
 
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keras

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Thus the Jewish nation will be saved and united with believers in the true Israel of God. Yes?
As I quoted in #9, many prophesies say that only a remnant of Judah will be saved. They must be at least 24,000, that is; 12,000 from Judah and 12,000 from Benjamin, for their quota in the 144,000. But would be likely double and more than that figure. Still only a fraction of the current total Jewish people.
So Zechariah 12 refers to just that fraction, proved by Zechariah 13:8-9. I place Zechariah 12:1-14 as all happening on the Day of the Lord's wrath, the Sixth Seal. Not at Jesus' Return.
Confirmed by Isaiah 29:1-4, where the Jewish remnant survive by hiding in u/g bunkers.
Also Jeremiah 12:14 - only the Christian Jews are allowed back into the Land.
 
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BABerean2

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But Zechariah describes their conversion immediately preceding Christ's return. Not in very easy circumstances unfortunately. He gives the background surrounding the conversion of the Jews. How do you read chapter 12?



Thus the Jewish nation will be saved and united with believers in the true Israel of God. Yes?

Many interpret Zechariah 12 to occur at Christ's Second Coming. However, this seems to stand in conflict to the parable of the virgins in Matthew chapter 25, where Christ reveals that there will be no second chances at His return.

We also have 1 Timothy 1:4 which warns against using genealogy in our faith.

In Matthew 3:9 John the Baptist told his own people to not put any dependence on being the seed of Abraham.

The most important genealogy in the Bible is found in Matthew 1:1. This is confirmed by Paul in Galatians 3:16.

In the New Covenant the middle wall of separation between all races of people has been broken down and therefore all people now come to salvation in the same exact way, through individual repentance and faith in Christ.


In Romans 11 Paul uses the Olive tree as a symbol of the New Covenant Church made up of Israelites and Gentiles grafted together into one tree. Paul says the only way for the branches broken off of the tree to be grafted back in, is through faith in Christ. Some have changed the word "so", which is an adverb of manner, into the word "then", which is an adverb of timing, in Romans 11:26. This change is often used to claim a time of "national salvation" for the Jewish people. They have also changed the New Covenant fulfilled for all races of people at Calvary, into a national covenant for the Jewish people in Romans 11:27. We all pray for the salvation of the Jewish people. However, salvation in the New Covenant is not based on genealogy.



It is more likely that the prophecy of Zechariah 12 was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost.

The Spirit of Grace was poured out on that day, through the Holy Spirit which produced the miraculous sign of tongues. It was a part of "the last days", based on Peter's understanding.


Act 2:16  But this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel: 

Act 2:17  'AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE LAST DAYS, SAYS GOD, THAT I WILL POUR OUT OF MY SPIRIT ON ALL FLESH; YOUR SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHESY, YOUR YOUNG MEN SHALL SEE VISIONS, YOUR OLD MEN SHALL DREAM DREAMS. 


There were many there in the crowd that day who called for the Messiah to be pierced, just a few weeks earlier. They had seen Him pierced at Calvary.

In Acts 2:36 Peter revealed to them what "all the house of Israel" had done to their Messiah.


Act 2:36  "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."

At this point about 3,000 did "mourn" for the one they had "pierced"(crucified) and repented and become the first Jewish members of the New Covenant Church, foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

This interpretation does not conflict with the others found above.

The time for the conversion of the Jewish people is now.

The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race.


.

 
 
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