Question in the sabbath

Yeshua HaDerekh

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It is a burden to always be talking to people who think they know what the bible says.

Man, as in mankind. The verse does not say Jew or Gentile. See:


Mark 2:27

Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

What is "man" in Hebrew...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Uh, the Mosaic law IS the old covenant. The Old covenant was given by God to Moses to give to the people of Israel.

Love God and love your neighbor...on these 2 commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets. HOW do you love God and your neighbor? I think you know the answer...
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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Open Heart.
This event occurred in AD 70, all things have been fulfilled, Israel (Hagar) lost that promised land. The old covenant had already been broken by God.

God does NOT break covenants...WE DO.
 
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klutedavid

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Open Heart

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??? What do you make of Zechariah 11:10 and Psalms 89:39 ?
It's an expression of God's anger. Much like when he said he divorced Israel. We say things we don't mean when we are angry. But if you read ALL THE WAY TO THE END, you find that the covenant is still intact. Indeed, the whole point of the book of Hosea is that God is faithful to Israel despite her unfaithfulness to God, just as Hosea was faithful to his wife despite her prostitution.
 
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Acts2:38

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Love God and love your neighbor...on these 2 commandments hang ALL the Law and the Prophets. HOW do you love God and your neighbor? I think you know the answer...

That was never in question, at least that I know of.

What was in question is the Sabbath, do we still follow it? No, it was nailed to the cross.
Do we still do animal sacrifices? No, it was nailed to the cross. Not to mention "the blood of bulls and goats" were a temp thing as we are told in Hebrews.

Things like that, is what we were calling into question.

Thanks for your input though.
 
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visionary

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That was never in question, at least that I know of.

What was in question is the Sabbath, do we still follow it? No, it was nailed to the cross.
Do we still do animal sacrifices? No, it was nailed to the cross. Not to mention "the blood of bulls and goats" were a temp thing as we are told in Hebrews.

Things like that, is what we were calling into question.

Thanks for your input though.
The Lord of The Sabbath is Yeshua...and He would never nail His Sabbath to the cross. It is His Lord's Day. All the cycles of Sabbath are His. Even the thousand years of sin. .. from which in the Sabbath millennium we will again rest with Him.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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That was never in question, at least that I know of.

What was in question is the Sabbath, do we still follow it? No, it was nailed to the cross.
Do we still do animal sacrifices? No, it was nailed to the cross. Not to mention "the blood of bulls and goats" were a temp thing as we are told in Hebrews.

So you only follow the 9 Commandments? Nobody can follow the whole of The Law, since many parts do not apply to everyone.
 
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gadar perets

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What was in question is the Sabbath, do we still follow it? No, it was nailed to the cross.
Do we still do animal sacrifices? No, it was nailed to the cross. Not to mention "the blood of bulls and goats" were a temp thing as we are told in Hebrews.
Neither one was nailed to the cross. You are no doubt referring to Colossians 2.

Let's first determine the context of chapter two. In verses 4 and 8 Paul warns the Colossians about deceivers. Then again, in verse 18, Paul gives his final warning about these same deceivers. In what way were they trying to deceive the Colossians? Verse 8 tells us that they were trying to exalt the traditions of men over the Messiah (verses 8 & 19).

Notice carefully the context; the traditions of men in verse 8, 18, and 22. The verses that occur between 8 and 22 must be understood based on the context of the traditions of men.

Now we can understand the key word in Colossians 2:14, "ordinances." The Greek word for ordinances here is a form of the root word "dogma" which means man-made rules, laws, commandments, precepts, etc. Paul is not talking about Yahweh's ordinances in this verse. He is talking about man's ordinances or traditions. This same word is used in Colossians 2:20 pertaining to the doctrines and commandments of men; in Luke 2:1 pertaining to a decree from Caesar Augustus; in Acts 17:7 pertaining to a decree from Caesar; and in Ephesians 2:15 concerning man made Jewish rules. It always pertains to man's commandments, not Yahweh's. Compare the word dogma with the Greek word that pertains to Yahweh's ordinances, "dikaioma."

This word dikaioma was used in Luke 1:6 pertaining to the ordinances of Yahweh and in Hebrews 9:1,10 pertaining once again to Yahweh's ordinances. Therefore, Paul is saying in verse 14 that the traditions and commandments of men are the issue, not Yahweh's laws. But what was nailed to the cross? The Greek construction shows that the "handwriting" was nailed, not the ordinances. The handwriting or, in Greek, the "cheirographon" was a certificate of debt. Whenever a man sins against Yahweh his sin is imputed against him (Romans 4:7,8). When men exalt the traditions of men over the commandments of Yahweh, as the Pharisees did, for example, they sin against Yahweh. The Messiah became sin for us and when He was nailed to the tree so were the sins that were imputed against us. Yahweh's holy ordinances were not nailed to the tree, the certificate of debt resulting in our death sentence was nailed to the tree. That is why Paul said the Colossians were "dead in your sins" in verse 13. The principalities and powers of verse 15 caused the people to sin by their man-made laws but Messiah was victorious over them.

This brings us to the crucial verse 16. It was the deceivers of verses 4,8, and 18 that were judging the Colossians regarding the things mentioned in verse 16. They had been imposing their man-made commandments and traditions upon the Colossians. Paul told them not to allow anyone to judge them concerning those matters. An important addition was made in the KJV that does not appear in any Greek manuscript. The word "is " in verse 17 was added, which changes the meaning of Paul's statement. That is why it is written in italics. Retaining the word "is" implies the thought of shadow vs. reality. In other words, Messiah fulfilled the shadow of the things mentioned in verse 16. However, if you remove the added word "is", it implies that we should not let any man outside the body of Messiah judge us in respect to these things. Indeed that is in line with the context of Paul's previous statements. Notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Colossians 2:19, all of which teach us that the body of Messiah is the church or all true believers.

Verse 17 states that these things "are" a shadow of things "to come" not that they "were" a shadow that was now fulfilled. Paul wrote this epistle approximately 30 years after Messiah's death and resurrection and yet he still spoke of them as unfulfilled shadows of something in the future.
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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I read 9 in the quote..

The Sabbath is in the 10 written on stone. I asked if only 9 were to be followed. Then I said the WHOLE (613) of the Law can not be followed by anyone because some of it will not apply to everyone (some are only for women, no Temple, only for Cohenim, etc).
 
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visionary

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The Sabbath is in the 10 written on stone. I asked if only 9 were to be followed. Then I said the WHOLE (613) of the Law can not be followed by anyone because some of it will not apply to everyone (some are only for women, no Temple, only for Cohenim, etc).
And I asked which of the ten can not be followed.
 
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Steve Petersen

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...the WHOLE (613) of the Law can not be followed by anyone because some of it will not apply to everyone (some are only for women, no Temple, only for Cohenim, etc).

This was true even when Israel had a Temple and a theocracy. The old argument 'can't do it all' falls kinda flat.
 
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Shimshon

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It would be nice if you read everything in context...
Yes, it would. Considering this psalm has nothing to do with the covenant made through Moses.

Yet, notice the 'him' you started with? Who is the him? Yeshua. What is the covenant spoken of here? Moses? No. The promise of Messiah. Yeshua. His words, his commands, his testimony, his witness, his covenant, .....it all endures forever, as foretold through the law and the prophets.

My point? You seem to have been so enamored with the statements about the law and commandments that I think you don't realize you may be conflating Moses' with Yeshua's. ?? The context of this entire psalm is about Yeshua and the 'new' covenant. Every mention of covenant in this pslam is about the one made through Yeshua. Likewise, every mention of law, statutes, commands are the 'words' Yeshua spoke. Not a renewal of the covenant made through Moses. Thus not a renewal or reference to the laws and statutes contained in that covenant. Which to bring back the original intent, as mentioned in Zech 11:10, was broken by God himself.

So now I have to ask, since you are arguing that God does not break covenants. What do you do with Hebrews 8?

5 They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: “See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.”

6
But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

7
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.
8 But God found fault with the people and said : “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord.

13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.
You seem to equate the ministry of Yeshua with the ministry given on the mountain? But, is not the ministry Yeshua has received different and better than the one given Moses? AND, is not the covenant of which Yeshua is mediator of superior to the one Moses was given? Do you not agree with the book of Hebrews chapter 8?

Yes, God found fault with the people. But you seem to stop there and say 'THIS is the reason the covenant was bad... if only we could function it by the Spirit we would be without fault!' It's a REnewed covenant.... But needless to say, it wouldn't matter how much you attempt to walk the old covenant out it would be to naught because "The day came, as declared by the Lord, that he made a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah". Is it like the old covenant? Is that even what Jeremiah 31 states?

And how do you deal with this whole chapter (Hebrews 8) in light of your statement.

God found fault with the people .....and broke the covenant. This should be a good thing according to all God told us. Like Yeshua telling us don't fear that he said he must leave and go to the Father. If he did not go and do what he was sent to do the Spirit would never have been sent. Meaning, if the old covenant did not get broken he would never have been able to initiate the new with his blood. If Yeshua did not die, thus breaking the covenant with Israel because they killed the husband of their covenant. Making them husbandless murderers. He would have never been able to be brought back to life and restored. Thus the restoration of all people, culminating in the restoration of Yisrael herself, would never have been possible. You must place the seed in the ground (death) so it can sprout forth to bring new fruit. The same way Yeshua must die for the sins of the people, Israel must go through the fire, the river, the waters, the wilderness of the nations and be purified to accept the promised place in the Kingdom. Jew and gentile alike.

God broke the covenant with Israel through Moses to make a new one with us through Yeshua. He promised this long ago, and THAT covenant (promise) is everlasting and forever. Promised from the foundation of eternity. Yeshua, his words, his commands. Which are the Father's. Yet, not merely a repeat renewal of what was given Moses. It's Messiah's Torah, and it was spoken through him as from the Father. These words we are to head and never forsake. The words of and about Yeshua. His instructions, his leading (by the Spirit given us), we follow him as he walks within us. United as one. This covenant was only foretold and testified by the law and through the prophets. But now it's here. Making the old covenant like the memories of your youth. Worth everything to your soul, making up who you are, but realized through the new life in Yeshua Messiah's covenant. Where we walk as one with God through the Spirit given us. Knowing him perfectly because he dwells inside us. Where were these commands in the old covenant? Only foretold to come in the newness that is Yeshua. Who being the Word of God in the flesh existed before eternity, is living within his children now, and will exist as King of Kings over every nation for eternity. The Holy One of Yisrael.
 
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