Do Jesus words trump the apostles or anyone else's, that might be in conflict or contradictory...?
- Thread starter Neogaia777
- Start date
Hey Neogaia! How's life?
About your question regarding 1st John, I'd look to John himself in context to answer the apparent "contradictions." And in the case I believe you are referring to (1 John 2:1, compared with 1 John 3:1-10), the answer is that John was using the analogy of adopted children of God (1 John 3:10). As such, John is never talking about sinless perfection in the letter, but about sons who enter into obedience, respect the Father's commands, and do everything in their power to fulfill His wishes. The sinners in this context are those who refuse to honor the Father's Lordship over their lives, and so give themselves over to sinful behavior by willfully rebelling against His wishes.
But as for Jesus' words trumping those of the apostles, you can best believe they do brother.This might get into the issue of infallibility again, and I've been accused of being a "false prophet" once too many times already this week. But yes, His words and His teachings bear more authority, and always will.
God bless you, Bro!
Scripturally do Jesus' words in The gospel "trump" the apostles words in their epistles? I would say no way. Are not the words of the apostles in the epistles ALSO the words of Christ? Yes they are so therefore how can one section of scripture "trump" another section? It can't.
Upvote
0
- Nov 29, 2011
- 8,530
- 4,776
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
What about it? Here are some selections...
"Everyone who resides in him does not sin..." (verse 6a)
"Everyone who has been fathered by God does not practice sin, because God’s seed resides in him, and thus he is not able to sin, because he has been fathered by God." (verse 9)
John discusses sin at length and it's worth reading it in context, but these two verses make the issue of whether Christians sin clear. Even if we sin by accident, as everyone does, we are forgiven in advance because Christ has been sacrificed for all sin.
Upvote
0
- Nov 29, 2011
- 8,530
- 4,776
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
I don't think he would be offended, any more than I'm offended if my grandchildren ask my forgiveness for something they did. I have forgiven them in advance because I don't expect them to be perfect, just as Jesus doesn't expect us to be perfect.
Upvote
0
- Nov 29, 2011
- 8,530
- 4,776
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Jesus never spoke a single word to those who had already become Christians, a fact that NeoGaia and others forget. Jesus spoke only to unbelievers, some of whom were seeking the kingdom of God, and to his disciples. The gospels were written to various groups to convince them of Jesus' divinity: his sinless life, his sacrifice, and his resurrection.
Upvote
0
- Nov 29, 2011
- 8,530
- 4,776
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Democrat
Of course one must remember that Paul's' letter to the Corinthians was written to address certain problems and conflicts that had arisen in that particular church at that time in that culture. Making them into universal law that applies to all people at all times in all circumstances is fundamentally wrong.
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
The first time or two may be on accident, but, what if it's not after that?, and you find yourself doing it still?, and think your too weak not to, in your own strength?, and don't know what to do?, but throw yourself on the mercy of God all the time...?
And what does John say in the text, in context, does he say, "not if you sin on accident...?"
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
You deal differently with even/and especially your own children, at different stages and ages of life.... And try to raise them into adults, and even help guide them but no longer try to discipline them or teach them discipline after that...?, responsibility maybe...?
If your a child, and a young child of God, not much is expected of you (yet)...
Upvote
0
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Others who had heard of seen him, were bringing others out to see and hear him, so they would have already heard him, and he spoke to his apostles and disciples regularly...
Upvote
0
Vicomte13
Well-Known Member
- Jan 6, 2016
- 3,655
- 1,816
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Jesus is God. The Apostles are not. Jesus gives the law for mankind. Apostles are ministers - they give advice to some group or other, based on their understanding, which may be imperfect because they are men. Jesus cannot error, because he is divine. Obviously Jesus' words trump the rest of the Bible, because he's God and he comes later in time. The Bible isn't God. It is merely a collection of scrolls that speak of God. In a few of those scrolls, such as the Gospels and Revelation and the Torah, God speaks directly, by name, as Himself. Obviously this overrides anything else in the collection to the contrary.
Upvote
0
- Oct 28, 2006
- 21,160
- 9,957
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
Either John had mental problems...or he was using Jewish literary styles of communicating to get his message across. I don't think we have to see it as 'contradictory,' especially when these apparently disparate details are closely written and connected by the very same author in the very same work. Only anal literalists would force the distinction to that extent, probably so they could ignore the spiritual implications.
As to what we have that Jesus 'said,' all of what we have in the New Testament has been mediated through the written work of His disciples (or Apostles), so for us to say Jesus should be placed OVER the disciples/apostles is problematic since: 1) all that we have about Jesus is mediated, and 2) if we take what Jesus does say seriously, He implies that His apostles have His authority to speak on His behalf.
Peace,
2PhiloVoid
Upvote
0
Vicomte13
Well-Known Member
- Jan 6, 2016
- 3,655
- 1,816
- Faith
- Catholic
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Others
John says things that make it clear that the circumstance of that person is very dire.
But Jesus makes it clear that to the man who forgives others their sins against him, God will forgive him also. So, the answer to the dire outlook presented by John in his letter is that Jesus said what a man had to do to be forgiven. Jesus is God. John is not. Jesus trumps John, and that is that.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Oct 10, 2011
- 23,290
- 5,242
- 45
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Celibate
Yet Believers, all of them, are supposed to be of "one mind" and by that "one spirit" the Holy Spirit, this is what cause the Holy Spirit to fall at Pentecost, it was a very rare, ripe time, that would prove a very temporary and fleeting thing...
Ans are you saying that if it does not apply to us, we don't need it, or need to hear it...? I think we should apply it all as if it were personally to us, and be honest about the pieces and parts that do or do not apply to you and act or believe accordingly, cause it is and will be pieces and parts nowadays, and almost everyone's pieces and parts will be different and unique to them, custom tailored for each "individual"... (what it means to be an individual)....
If we want to come to a one mind, one accord, one spirit thing again, we have to each deal with each our pieces and parts each individually before we'll ever get there again...
Upvote
0
- Dec 29, 2002
- 8,167
- 3,991
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Jesus said If do not go the comforter will not come. The spirit of God is the one that spoke and they wrote.
This has been going on for wow SO hundreds of years. So I say it like this. For me.. as I read His word. I believe.. I confess with my mouth believe with my heart John 3:16. I am saved. Now I have passed form death to life and death will never touch me. If we sin we take it to Christ where He is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us form all unrighteousness. Now.. if I sin.. I choose to sin, to walk in that sin.. I am not of GOD. I am now walking a fine line that should NEVER be walked on. I can not say I am of GOD for God love God if I am freely walking in sin. KNOWING I am walking in sin. Not talking being temped.. you miss it..we all do. This FLESH is still flesh. And it ALWAYS is at war with the NEW SPIRIT HE made IN YOU once you made JESUS your lord.. HE KNOWS ALL THIS..
So the WORD all flows together. We get stuck.. somethings as we all know we STILL have problems with.
So praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS! Jesus words ARE the apostles words. Again.. we cant walk in sin freely and say we are Children of GOD. That person is not of God..does not know GOD. See the difference is.. who does it make you feel to lie? To hurt someone? To steal? On and one. We all miss it from time to time.. we get temped and miss it. Some times we do get stuck in some sin.. yet.. go back and remember..did you not each time.. feel the the Holy Spirit convict you? Yes.. you repented.. you wanted to repent.. yet.. you keep falling. Not the same as FREELY walking in sin. To know and do it anyway.
Jesus knows all this lol praise GOD. The flesh has not been changed yet. THINK.. whom the SON sets free is free indeed. FREE from what? He died rose.. WOW applys to SO many areas.. things we STILL do not understand.
This has been going on for wow SO hundreds of years. So I say it like this. For me.. as I read His word. I believe.. I confess with my mouth believe with my heart John 3:16. I am saved. Now I have passed form death to life and death will never touch me. If we sin we take it to Christ where He is faithful to forgive us and cleanse us form all unrighteousness. Now.. if I sin.. I choose to sin, to walk in that sin.. I am not of GOD. I am now walking a fine line that should NEVER be walked on. I can not say I am of GOD for God love God if I am freely walking in sin. KNOWING I am walking in sin. Not talking being temped.. you miss it..we all do. This FLESH is still flesh. And it ALWAYS is at war with the NEW SPIRIT HE made IN YOU once you made JESUS your lord.. HE KNOWS ALL THIS..
So the WORD all flows together. We get stuck.. somethings as we all know we STILL have problems with.
So praise GOD GLORY TO JESUS! Jesus words ARE the apostles words. Again.. we cant walk in sin freely and say we are Children of GOD. That person is not of God..does not know GOD. See the difference is.. who does it make you feel to lie? To hurt someone? To steal? On and one. We all miss it from time to time.. we get temped and miss it. Some times we do get stuck in some sin.. yet.. go back and remember..did you not each time.. feel the the Holy Spirit convict you? Yes.. you repented.. you wanted to repent.. yet.. you keep falling. Not the same as FREELY walking in sin. To know and do it anyway.
Jesus knows all this lol praise GOD. The flesh has not been changed yet. THINK.. whom the SON sets free is free indeed. FREE from what? He died rose.. WOW applys to SO many areas.. things we STILL do not understand.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Similar threads
