the origin of ALLAH's name

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gadar perets

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Could you please show us where Abraham pbuh or Moses pbuh ever taught Elohim has a literal begotten 'Son'?
The Almighty did not reveal that truth through Abraham or Moses, but through David.

Psa 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
Psa 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against YHWH, and against his anointed, saying,
Psa 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
Psa 2:4 He that sits in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.
Psa 2:5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.
Psa 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: YHWH has said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.
Psa 2:11 Serve YHWH with fear, and rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
The Apostle Paul attributed this to Yeshua in Acts 13:33.
 
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gadar perets

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Wasn't the son you mention born to Hannah? Where did Jesus pbuh himself claim to be this son? Does Paul say, Jesus pbuh claimed to be the Son mentioned in psalms 2:7?
The following are Paul's words;

Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead:
Acts 13:31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people.
Acts 13:32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
Acts 13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Yeshua (Jesus) again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
 
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habibii zahra

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Soz but actually it hasn't helped at all. With all due respect I only wanted you to answer whether YHVH is mentioned specifically in the Qu'ran. Not equivalents of El or God but His Name.

Please would you be kind enough to specifically address what I raised in my post. Could you quote the surah's where God has used His Name so that I can look it up. Is it in the form of an acronym similar to the Torah, for example because it is so Holy?

I am very familiar with what the Bible says about His Name but what does the Qu'ran say?

I don't have as much time online so a concise reply would be much appreciated which is directly linked to the Qu'ran.

Many thanks again for your time and help
in the Quran the name of God is ALLAH
this is the verse
Say (O Muhammad
saws.gif
): "Invoke Allah or invoke the Most Beneficent (Allah), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names. And offer your Salat (prayer) neither aloud nor in a low voice, but follow a way between.
 
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habibii zahra

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Jews also deny the sonship of Christ... but most people don't understand that as meaning that Jews worship a different god.

Trinitarianism does not deny the oneness of God. If a Muslim is committed to their absolute monotheism, that does not preclude religious dialogue and mutual understanding of God together.
how can you call it monotheism while you believe in god in three parts??
 
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habibii zahra

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habibii zahra,

Shouldn't this thread be called, "The Origin of the Title Allah"? The OP says "Allah" means "God", but "God" is not a name. The being who holds the title "God" has a name, YHWH. If "Allah" is really the God of the Jews and Christians, then His name is YHWH as well, but that is a big "If".
well the idea of monotheism pushes you to believe in one god for jews Christians and muslims...when a god calls you to believe in Christianity and Judaism and islam as well isn't that a true god??
god is an expression in ARABIC to express the lord..jews use it Christians use it and muslims as well...
many names of ALLAH yet he still one god
 
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gadar perets

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god is an expression in ARABIC to express the lord..jews use it Christians use it and muslims as well...
many names of ALLAH yet he still one god
Yes, "God" is an "expression", but that is not His name. It is a title. His name is revealed in Scripture as "YHWH". Does the Koran ever use "YHWH" or a variation of it such as "Yahweh" or even "Jehovah"?
 
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ViaCrucis

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how can you call it monotheism while you believe in god in three parts??

We don't believe in "god in three parts". We believe in one God, monotheism comes from the Greek mono (one or singular) and theos (God/god).

From the Athanasian Creed:
"And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords."

One God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three parts of God, but God, truly and really. The Father is God, and the Son is God from the Father, the Spirit is God from the Father [and the Son]. One Deity, not three.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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GeorgeTwo

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Could you please show us where Abraham pbuh or Moses pbuh ever taught Elohim has a literal begotten 'Son'? Perhaps you are taking 'son of God', meaning pious God fearing person as understood by the Jews and giving it a Greek understanding, 'Sun of God'; perhaps that's why modern Scholars tell us the earliest Manuscripts of John don't have the word 'Begotten' in them.

You are right in Muslims are taught God has no literal son, but we are all sons and daughters of God in a spiritual sense, and though we don't refer to Elohim as 'Father', we do call him by one of the names he uses, Rabb meaning one who raises, nourishes, sustains, protects, loves etc. So just like father without the misunderstanding of the word and where that can lead.

What do you mean by "literal" son?
 
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habibii zahra

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Yes, "God" is an "expression", but that is not His name. It is a title. His name is revealed in Scripture as "YHWH". Does the Koran ever use "YHWH" or a variation of it such as "Yahweh" or even "Jehovah"?
the Quran uses the word "ALLAH" to express god..where is the problem in that...YHWH OR ALLAH different names for one god
 
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habibii zahra

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We don't believe in "god in three parts". We believe in one God, monotheism comes from the Greek mono (one or singular) and theos (God/god).

From the Athanasian Creed:
"And the catholic faith is this, that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Substance. For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost is all one: the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Ghost incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three Eternals, but one Eternal. As there are not three Uncreated nor three Incomprehensibles, but one Uncreated and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Ghost almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties, but one Almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords, but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by Himself to be God and Lord, So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, There be three Gods, or three Lords."

One God.
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not three parts of God, but God, truly and really. The Father is God, and the Son is God from the Father, the Spirit is God from the Father [and the Son]. One Deity, not three.

-CryptoLutheran
who brought jesus into existence...jesus wasn't created until god created him thus he cannot be uncreated
 
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ViaCrucis

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who brought jesus into existence...

The Son, we believe, is eternal and uncreated. There was never a time the Son--Jesus--was not.

From the Nicene Creed:
"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father."

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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literal begotten, born as a result of a sexual union. John 3:16 KJV version.

John 3:16 doesn't say Jesus was begotten or born as a result of a sexual union. Mainstream, orthodox Christian teaching is that Jesus Christ was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the Virgin Mary. But it is not His virgin birth that He is called "Son of God", He is called the Son because of His eternal generation from the Father, the Son never came into existence, the Son has always been. His "birth" from the Father is eternal, timeless, it does not speak of the Son being born at a point in time, or God having a wife and siring a child; it refers to the divine relationship between the Father and the Son.

So, no, Jesus is not "the literal son" or "literally begotten" by the definition you provide here of "a result of a sexual union". That isn't part of orthodox, mainstream Christian teaching; just the opposite in fact, it would be regarded as explicit heresy.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Lotuspetal_uk

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in the Quran the name of God is ALLAH
this is the verse
Say (O Muhammad
saws.gif
): "Invoke Allah or invoke the Most Beneficent (Allah), by whatever name you invoke Him (it is the same), for to Him belong the Best Names. And offer your Salat (prayer) neither aloud nor in a low voice, but follow a way between.
Thanks for answering my question.

The Name of God is not quoted in the Qu'ran.

That's all I wanted to know.

Cheers
 
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habibii zahra

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Thanks for answering my question.

The Name of God is not quoted in the Qu'ran.

That's all I wanted to know.

Cheers
the name of god is present in the Quran it is ALLAH ..call him anything you want still he is Allah the god of the universe
 
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GeorgeTwo

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Allah (/ˈælə, ˈɑːlə, əlˈlɑː/;[1][2] Arabic: الله‎, translit. Allāh‎, pronounced [ɑɫ'ɫɑh] ( listen)) is the Arabic word for God in Abrahamic religions. In the English language, the word traditionally refers to God in Islam.[3][4][5] The word is thought to be derived by contraction from al-ilāh, which means "the god", and is related to El and Elohim, the Hebrew words for God.[6][7]

The word Allah has been used by Arabic people of different religions since pre-Islamic times.[8] More specifically, it has been used as a term for God by Muslims (both Arab and non-Arab) and Arab Christians. It is now mainly used by Muslims and Arab Christians to refer to God.[9] It is also often, albeit not exclusively, used in this way by Bábists, Bahá'ís, Indonesian and Maltese Christians, and Mizrahi Jews.[10][11][12] Similar usage by Christians and Sikhs in West Malaysia has recently led to political and legal controversies.

The etymology of the word Allāh has been discussed extensively by classical Arab philologists.[17] Grammarians of the Basra school regarded it as either formed "spontaneously" (murtajal) or as the definite form of lāh (from the verbal root lyh with the meaning of "lofty" or "hidden").[17] Others held that it was borrowed from Syriac or Hebrew, but most considered it to be derived from a contraction of the Arabic definite article al- "the" and ilāh "deity, god" to al-lāh meaning "the deity", or "the God".[17] The majority of modern scholars subscribe to the latter theory, and view the loanword hypothesis with skepticism.[18]

Cognates of the name "Allāh" exist in other Semitic languages, including Hebrew and Aramaic.[19] The corresponding Aramaic form is Elah (אלה), but its emphatic state is Elaha (אלהא). It is written as ܐܠܗܐ (ʼĔlāhā) in Biblical Aramaic and ܐܲܠܵܗܵܐ (ʼAlâhâ) in Syriac as used by the Assyrian Church, both meaning simply "God".[20] Biblical Hebrew mostly uses the plural (but functional singular) form Elohim (אלהים), but more rarely it also uses the singular form Eloah (אלוהּ).

Allah - Wikipedia

Using the Arabic word for god when refering to YHWH (as Arabic speaking Christians do) doesn't change Him into the Islamic god.

الله as a title for "the God," meaning the one who is above all, is not the same as الله as the name of the god of a particular religion — even if they believe that he is the one and only. It is true that Jews and Christians in Arabic countries refer to God as الله, but it is also true that they do not have the same conception as a Muslim who uses the same word.

 
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GeorgeTwo

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literal begotten, born as a result of a sexual union. John 3:16 KJV version.

What makes you think Jesus was born as a result of a sexual union?

16 “For God loved He gave His One and Only Son so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

The Greek word is monogenes and in context means unique, one of a kind, like no other -- it does not speak of a sexual union.
 
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GeorgeTwo

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the name of god is present in the Quran it is ALLAH ..call him anything you want still he is Allah the god of the universe

Allah is not God's name.

Judaism 101: The most important of God's Names is the four-letter Name represented by the Hebrew letters Yod-Hei-Vav-Hei (YHVH).

Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh -- I will be that I will be.

Where do we find that name in the Qur'an?
 
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GeorgeTwo

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No where. That looks more like a statement than a name. Where is it found in the NT?

John 8:58


The key in interpreting what Jesus is saying in John 8:58 and other passages is the reaction of the Jews and how Jesus handled their reaction.


John 8:58 in context:


56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”


58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Notice a couple things here: First the Jews knew exactly what Jesus said because they picked up stones to kill Him. They were quite legalistic in the day and would not have stoned Jesus for claiming to be older than Moses. Second there were crackpots in the day that claimed to be god. Caesar was one. There no doubt many others but the Jews didn’t just go around stoning people who claimed to be god. They mostly just considered the source. The difference is Jesus actually claimed the personal name God gave Moses. The audience knew exactly what He said.


Jesus is identifying Himself so closely with the one true and living God that He can speak of Himself as being there 'before Abraham existed.' This is as close as we come on the lips of Jesus to a direct statement of what John says in his Prologue:


John 1:1-2:


1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.


Jesus speaks uses the divine name of the Father—I AM—the Holy name of God. If Jesus had wanted to claim only that He existed before Abraham, He would have said something like: "Before Abraham was, I was." But Jesus used the word, ego eimi. "Before Abraham was born, I am." There is no doubt in these verses. Jesus was claiming to be God. There are strong linguistic connections with verses in the Old Testament.


See Isaiah 41:4,

4 Who has performed and done it,

Calling the generations from the beginning?


'I, the LORD, am the first;

And with the last I am He.’”


and, Isaiah 43:13,


13 Indeed before the day was, I am He;

And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand;

I work, and who will reverse it?”


In addition Jesus was claiming superiority over Abraham.


John 5:16-19,16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” 18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.


Jesus said he was equal to God. If the Jews misunderstood Him He made no effort to correct them. Something He would have been obligated to do.


John 10:30-33, I and My Father are one.”

31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” 33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”


Again Jesus had an obligation to correct the thinking. Instead He scolded them for not believing His claim and had to escape once more.


Stoning was prescribed for blasphemy. (Leviticus 24:16, Mishnah Sanhedrin 7:4)


Comment by Carson

58. [. . .] Jesus [. . .]. If he had wanted to claim only that he existed before Abraham, it would have been simpler to say, ‘Before Abraham was, I was.’ Instead, bringing forward egō eimi found in verses 24, 28, Jesus says, ‘Before Abraham was born, I am.’ Whatever doubts may attach themselves to whether egō eimi should be taken absolutely in verses 24, 28, here there can be none. Moreover, the strong linguistic connections to Isaiah 40-55 are supported by obvious links: cf. ‘I, the Lord’ — with the first of them and the last — I am he’ (Isaiah 41:4); ‘Yes, and from ancient days I am he’ (Isaiah 43:13). Cf. Psalm 90:2. That the Jews take up stones to kill him presupposes they understand these words as some kind of blasphemous claim to deity. [. . .]

— D. A. Carson, The Gospel According to John (PNTC), page 358 (Eerdmans, 1991).


Comment by Bruce

8:57, 58 [. . .]

Jesus’ reply to their protest repeats the affirmation ‘I am He’ (egō eimi), used twice already in this chapter (verses 24, 28), and does so in a way which underlines the magnitude of the claim it expresses. He echoes the language of the God of Israel, who remains the same from everlasting to everlasting: ‘I, the Lord, the first and the last, I am He’ (Isaiah 41:4), How can a man who is ‘not yet fifty years old’ speak like that? Only if he speaks as the Word that had been with God from the beginning and was now incarnate on earth. Abraham looked forward to the time of his incarnation, but he himself existed before his incarnation, before Abraham was born (genesthai), before the worlds were made. The Word of the eternal God cannot be other than eternal. So much in this context is conveyed by egō eimi. And if we suppose that the conversation was carried on in Aramaic or even Hebrew, then Jesus could have uttered the very words ’ ani hu’ [אני היא], as though he were applying them to himself.

— F. F. Bruce, The Gospel of John: Introduction, Exposition, and Notes, pages 205-206 (Eerdmans, 1983).
 
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Thanks for answering my question.

The Name of God is not quoted in the Qu'ran.

That's all I wanted to know.

Cheers

But let us be clear, it's not in the New Testament either. So I suspect that whatever point you are attempting to make is somewhat rendered moot.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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habibii zahra

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Using the Arabic word for god when refering to YHWH (as Arabic speaking Christians do) doesn't change Him into the Islamic god.

الله as a title for "the God," meaning the one who is above all, is not the same as الله as the name of the god of a particular religion — even if they believe that he is the one and only. It is true that Jews and Christians in Arabic countries refer to God as الله, but it is also true that they do not have the same conception as a Muslim who uses the same word.
Christians use the word ALLAH to refer to the father...thus the name of the lord for us and for Christians are the same
سفر التكوين الإصحاح 1 : 26 "وقال الله نعمل الإنسان على صورتنا على شبهنا "
this is a verse from the Bible uses the word "ALLAH" for their god and their lord..
 
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gadar perets

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John 8:58


The key in interpreting what Jesus is saying in John 8:58 and other passages is the reaction of the Jews and how Jesus handled their reaction.


John 8:58 in context:


56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”


58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” 59 Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Notice a couple things here: First the Jews knew exactly what Jesus said because they picked up stones to kill Him. They were quite legalistic in the day and would not have stoned Jesus for claiming to be older than Moses. Second there were crackpots in the day that claimed to be god. Caesar was one. There no doubt many others but the Jews didn’t just go around stoning people who claimed to be god. They mostly just considered the source. The difference is Jesus actually claimed the personal name God gave Moses. The audience knew exactly what He said.


Jesus is identifying Himself so closely with the one true and living God that He can speak of Himself as being there 'before Abraham existed.' This is as close as we come on the lips of Jesus to a direct statement of what John says in his Prologue:





Jesus speaks uses the divine name of the Father—I AM—the Holy name of God. If Jesus had wanted to claim only that He existed before Abraham, He would have said something like: "Before Abraham was, I was." But Jesus used the word, ego eimi. "Before Abraham was born, I am." There is no doubt in these verses. Jesus was claiming to be God. There are strong linguistic connections with verses in the Old Testament.
Exodus 3:14-15 reads, "And Elohim said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. And Elohim said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH, Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations."
Therefore, the "I AM" is identified as "YHWH."


Exodus 3:15 makes it clear that the "I AM" is declaring that He Himself is the "Elohim (God) of your fathers, the Elohim of Abraham, the Elohim of Isaac, and the Elohim of Jacob."

Acts 3:13 says;

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified His Son Jesus (Yeshua); whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.​

In other words, the great "I AM" is saying He has glorified His Son Yeshua. Therefore, Yeshua cannot be the "I AM".

Several individuals aside from Yeshua used "ego eimi" as well. In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, "Ego eimi Gabriel." In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Yeshua said, "Ego eimi." In Acts 10:21, Peter said, "Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom you seek." Obviously, the mere use of "ego eimi" does not equate one to the "I AM" of Exodus 3:14.
 
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