Humans did NOT evolve from Apes...

Colter

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Even I, as an atheist, am willing to admit that that is a possibility.
Not a plausibility (since there is no evidence to support it), but certainly a possibility (since there is no way to logically disprove it).
That's perfectly reasonable. There is absolute truth, but man is finite. So we will always be short of absolute truth. We believe that is by designe for the purpose of "experience" and the fact that, if we are children of deity, we are NOT that absolute deity.

Let's assume we lived during the times of Jesus and that he was real, that the accounts we are given are accurate. After he left we STILL would have no absolute proof or scientific explanation of what we witnessed. At best we could only tell others what we witnessed, future generations would be left with our story.

So my point is, if some of these accounts are accurate we would be where we are right now. If they are NOT accurate then we are left to believe common Jewish fisherman left Judaism to create a fiction wherein they are less than heroic and a female prostitute was the first to believe while the boys hid out in doubt. Theses men stuck with their very controversial story even to their persecution and death.
 
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AV1611VET

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Why do you consider it a problem when I can't demonstrate something, but not a problem when you can't demonstrate something?
Because you're going on science, and I'm going on faith.

The creation events in 4004 BC were not acts of science, they were miracles.

As such: 1) no science was employed in the creation of the universe, and 2) no evidence was generated in the creation of the universe.

Remarks like: "That's demonstrably false" aren't apropos.
 
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AV1611VET

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Let's assume we lived during the times of Jesus and that he was real, that the accounts we are given are accurate. After he left we STILL would have no absolute proof or scientific explanation of what we witnessed. At best we could only tell others what we witnessed, future generations would be left with our story.
I like to equate demanding evidence for the creation of the universe is like demanding to see Jesus' footprints on the water as evidence He walked on it.

Scientists aren't going to find those footprints; I don't care how hard they try ... and if scientists deny it happened or claim it was done some other way (such as Jesus walking on it when it was ice), they would be wrong.

Science is myopic.

If you're going to embrace the creation week as fact, you're going to have to embrace it by faith, not by science.

Science is myopic.
 
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dad

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Sure it is when you read that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from WATER on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 AND the sons of God (prehistoric people) moveth. Science has also confirmed that prehistoric people descended from the common ancestor of Apes, which are NOT Adam's descendants. History provides the bones of these people which the traditional religious story CANNOT explain. ALSO, prehistoric people were made of FLESH. This is important as the following verse shows:

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, (Adam) for that he also is FLESH: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

The stuff made on certain days does not constitute everything made on all days of creation actually. The stuff made on day five was only the stuff made on day five. Looking at what was made before and after that day we can see that there was already fish and birds and a sun and etc etc by day five.


Some believe the sons of God were Angels but Angels are not made of FLESH since flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven, but Angels do. Mat 18:10

How angels can appear on earth is not really fully known to us. One cannot make a big doctrine that defines the whole creation out of guessing what angels can or can not be like. We do not even need any 'sons of god' to see what creation was like, they were not even mentioned in the account!


ONLY mankind and the sons of God (prehistoric people) were made of FLESH. Amen?

Who cares? One cannot really define what prehistoric people even are. Do you go by what was able to fossilize? You thin that is the way we know who lived on earth? Then there is the question of when the people lived that we have found the remains of. In my opinion, by the time man started to be able to leave remains and fossils, it was post flood already. So all you are talking about is post flood men...and the ape like thingies that some deluded evos think were early precursors to man...etc.
 
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Aman777

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Aman777 said:
Then please correct me. Show me where I have taken the verse out of context or everyone will see that you cannot. BTW, please use the KJV since most others have been ALTERED. God Bless you

Seems that the conversation has moved on, but here it is anyway:

Genesis 1:21-24
21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind, and every winged fowl after His kind: and God saw that it was good.

I bolded and underlined the Fact that EVERY living creature that moveth was created and brought forth from WATER. Did you miss that? Science discovered the SAME thing last year. Breaking News, World News & Multimedia2016/07/26/science/last-universal-ancestor.html Do you believe Science AND Scripture is wrong?

*** 22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. 23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. In verse 21, rather than everything coming from the waters we have the birds being created at the same time as the creatures of the seas, therefore not coming from the waters. And then in verse 24 the earth brings forth land animals - it's not animals coming out of the sea onto land. Context is such a pesky problem, isn't it?

Not at all since you also failed to notice that God created the creatures from WATER and Lord God/Jesus made the creatures from the ground. God created "THEIR" (Trinity) kinds on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 AND Lord God/Jesus made man, birds, beasts of the field and creeping things on the 6th Day. Gen 2:19

Increased study of Genesis is indicated. God Bless you and Try again?
 
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Aman777

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Try some science. Geology, physics, biology,... none of these sciences are compatible with the creation myth of the bible as written in genesis.

The world is not young.
The universe is not young.

Amen, which agrees with the Scriptural Fact that we still live on the 6th Day of the Creation since Gen 1:28-31 is Prophecy of future events. You're probably confused because you didn't know that a Day to God is several Billions of years in man's time.

*** Extant species weren't created from scratch - instead, they evolved from a common ancestor.

Amen, which agrees with the Scriptural Fact that Lord God/Jesus made the common ancestors (His kinds) Gen 2:19 after God (Their kinds) made EVERYTHING from water. Gen 1:21 The word "evolved" was taken from the phrase Descent with modifications within kinds, by Godless men who tried to eliminate God from His own Creation.

*** The entire world never flooded.

Adam's did, but the present world has never suffered a Global Flood and the Bible does NOT say it did. It cannot since it's a ROCK and already covered with Water. As Adam's firmament sank in Lake Van, Turkey, 11,000 years ago, the Ark was released into the present world and Human civilization can be traced to the arrival of the Ark on Planet Earth. History agrees and here is the historic EVIDENCE: Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE

*** The earth did not exist before the sun.
Etc etc etc etc.

Adam's Earth was made the 3rd Day. Gen 1:10 The Sun, Moon and Stars of our cosmos lit up on the 4th Day. Gen 1:16 IOW, Adam's Earth existed long BEFORE the Big Bang of our Universe. It was almost a Billion years BEFORE the first Stars lit up after our world began. www.iflscience.com/space/the-first-stars-in-the-universe-formed-later-than-we-thought/
Sep 1, 2016

God got it right in EVERY case which means that you didn't. Try again?
 
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Aman777

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Are people even willing to believe that life was created to evolve according to Gods plan?

Of course. That's why Genesis shows that God (The Trinity) created and brought forth "every living creature that moves" from Water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 whereas Lord God/Jesus made the common ancestors from the ground, on the 6th Day. Gen 2:19

Human life descended with Intellectual modifications when Adam's (His kind) daughters married and produced Hybrid Humans with Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 AND the DNA of prehistoric people whose offspring were modified by INHERITING Adam's superior intelligence. Gen 6:4 Today, there are 7.4 Billion Hybrid Humans alive on Planet Earth. God Bless you
 
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Colter

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Of course. That's why Genesis shows that God (The Trinity) created and brought forth "every living creature that moves" from Water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 whereas Lord God/Jesus made the common ancestors from the ground, on the 6th Day. Gen 2:19

Human life descended with Intellectual modifications when Adam's (His kind) daughters married and produced Hybrid Humans with Adam's superior intelligence, which is like God's, Gen 3:22 AND the DNA of prehistoric people whose offspring were modified by INHERITING Adam's superior intelligence. Gen 6:4 Today, there are 7.4 Billion Hybrid Humans alive on Planet Earth. God Bless you
You've made up quite a lot of stuff. You should just write a new bible and start a new religion. You could call it Lake Vanityism. :sorry:
 
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Aman777

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The stuff made on certain days does not constitute everything made on all days of creation actually. The stuff made on day five was only the stuff made on day five. Looking at what was made before and after that day we can see that there was already fish and birds and a sun and etc etc by day five.


Where? When? Only the refuted Gap Theory, where one MUST "add to" what is actually written, in order to make it sound reasonable. The FIRST animals were made on the 5th Day from Water UNLESS you can post chapter and verse where other animals were made before then. This does not include Adam, since he was first made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 AND Adam was NOT an animal but was made to live for Eternity, which NO animal was.


*** How angels can appear on earth is not really fully known to us. One cannot make a big doctrine that defines the whole creation out of guessing what angels can or can not be like. We do not even need any 'sons of god' to see what creation was like, they were not even mentioned in the account!

Amen..IF you are speaking of the traditional religious view of ancient men...BUT...the fact that flesh and blood CANNOT enter Heaven rules our Angels as being the sons of God. Also, Jesus tells us that Christians will be like Angels in Heaven which means we won't marry in Heaven:

Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

*** Who cares?

Me and anyone who is interested in knowing the Truth Scripturally, scientifically and historically. Those who push false Theories don't care since they are only interested in their own foolish opinion backed by nothing but Bluff.

*** One cannot really define what prehistoric people even are.

Sure we can since the Ark, bringing the FIRST Humans (descendants of Adam) to this planet of Apes, was recorded by History, to have happened some 11k years ago. Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE It's physical empirical (testable) EVIDENCE of the literal God. Farming, the first Human cities, and EVERY other trait of modern Humans was first identified in the Fertile Crescent, which is just SW of the mile high Lake Van, in the valleys of the "Cradle of Human Civilization on Planet Earth" known as Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers. Only Adam's descendants were Humans and they lived among the One Million sons of God (prehistoric people) who were already here when the Ark arrived....UNLESS...you can tell us WHO Noah's grandsons married?

*** Do you go by what was able to fossilize? You thin that is the way we know who lived on earth? Then there is the question of when the people lived that we have found the remains of. In my opinion, by the time man started to be able to leave remains and fossils, it was post flood already. So all you are talking about is post flood men...and the ape like thingies that some deluded evos think were early precursors to man...etc.

False, since Adam was made the 3rd Day from dust by Lord God/Jesus. Gen 2:7
The sons of God were created the 5th Day from Water, by God the Trinity. Gen 1:21 His and Their "kinds" could produce children together as Gen 6:4 clearly shows and that is the way today's Earth has brought forth the 7.4 Billion Humans (descendants of Adam) alive today. That's important since ONLY Humans can be born again Spiritually in order to become God's Eternal Children and live forever with Jesus in the 3rd Heaven. It's ALL a part of God's perfect plan. God Bless you
 
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Aman777

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You've made up quite a lot of stuff. You should just write a new bible and start a new religion. You could call it Lake Vanityism. :sorry:

Only money grubbers and cult leaders start new religions and change God's Holy Word to "fit" their man made ideas. I seek to find the Truth in Scripture which AGREES in every way with every discovery of mankind. It's because God tells us of the last generation of Spiritual Christians who will have the "increased knowledge" to understand what He told us in Genesis. Daniel 12:4 Did you know that God tells us that we live in a Multiverse? It's exciting. God Bless you
 
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AV1611VET

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*** How angels can appear on earth is not really fully known to us. One cannot make a big doctrine that defines the whole creation out of guessing what angels can or can not be like. We do not even need any 'sons of god' to see what creation was like, they were not even mentioned in the account!
Aman, angels were created before the earth was.

In fact, they shouted for joy at its inception.

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Lucifer would also be included in that group, as he hadn't rebelled yet.

I take it Lucifer was assigned to the Garden of Eden ...

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

... possibly as a musician ...

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

... whose job was to play music for the angels that came to eat of the Tree of Knowledge which, of course, was placed off-limits to Adam & Eve.

I am assuming, of course, that the fruit on that tree was manna -- angels' food.

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.
 
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Halbhh

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Then that "figurative first day", lasts some +8 billion years.

I'll just let the universe tell me the facts instead of some ancient book.

Rather, that time during verse 1 is *before* the 'first day' which is not yet being at hand until verses 3 through 5. And with that in mind, your number '8 billion' is the right idea. This time passage in verse 1 is close to 9 billion years we can deduce.

About your 2nd sentence, that's always been my attitude regarding astrophysics and astronomy. The scripture isn't about astronomy, it's about your relation to the ineffable Something which is of that ultimate reality you'll face as this mortal body passes.
 
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dad

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Where? When? Only the refuted Gap Theory, where one MUST "add to" what is actually written, in order to make it sound reasonable. The FIRST animals were made on the 5th Day from Water UNLESS you can post chapter and verse where other animals were made before then. This does not include Adam, since he was first made on the 3rd Day Gen 2:4-7 AND Adam was NOT an animal but was made to live for Eternity, which NO animal was.
Context. When it names what was made on day five or another day, that could not mean anything that was already made. It has to be looked at in context of all that was made on that day. Otherwise you need to toss out the various days of creation.

Amen..IF you are speaking of the traditional religious view of ancient men...BUT...the fact that flesh and blood CANNOT enter Heaven rules our Angels as being the sons of God. Also, Jesus tells us that Christians will be like Angels in Heaven which means we won't marry in Heaven:
Great, so we don't know all about angels. Nor do we know all the people who may have lived before we have fossils for apes and early man.


Sure we can since the Ark, bringing the FIRST Humans (descendants of Adam) to this planet of Apes, was recorded by History, to have happened some 11k years ago.
Total conjecture. The times are not know by science or given in the bible as the time you claim. I saw no planet of the apes in Genesis? I saw a creation that included fish and animals, and birds and plants and man...no ape planet at all...ever.



Map: Fertile Cresent, 9000 to 4500 BCE It's physical empirical (testable) EVIDENCE of the literal God. Farming, the first Human cities, and EVERY other trait of modern Humans was first identified in the Fertile Crescent, which is just SW of the mile high Lake Van, in the valleys of the "Cradle of Human Civilization on Planet Earth" known as Mesopotamia, the land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers.
That depends if the continents separated after the flood, in which case the current Tigris and other rivers need not represent the old locations. Just because man started after the flood in the mid east does not mean we were in some magic bublle under a lake you chose for no apparent reason before that! Sorry.


Only Adam's descendants were Humans
Mankind in other words. We were here from the beginning.
and they lived among the One Million sons of God (prehistoric people) who were already here when the Ark arrived....UNLESS...you can tell us WHO Noah's grandsons married?
Now you grab an imaginary number for your imaginary ape people? Ha.
False, since Adam was made the 3rd Day from dust by Lord God/Jesus. Gen 2:7
Man was created on the fifth day. Read the first chapter in the bible and see.

The sons of God were created the 5th Day from Water, by God the Trinity. Gen 1:21 His and Their "kinds" could produce children together as Gen 6:4 clearly shows and that is the way today's Earth has brought forth the 7.4 Billion Humans (descendants of Adam) alive today.
We will have to disagree, and I will note for the lurkers that this sounds insane to me.

That's important since ONLY Humans can be born again Spiritually in order to become God's Eternal Children and live forever with Jesus in the 3rd Heaven. It's ALL a part of God's perfect plan. God Bless you

All men can be born again actually...no planet of the apes needed.
 
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dad

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Rather, that time during verse 1 is *before* the 'first day' which is not yet being at hand until verses 3 through 5. And with that in mind, your number '8 billion' is the right idea. This time passage in verse 1 is close to 9 billion years we can deduce.

About your 2nd sentence, that's always been my attitude regarding astrophysics and astronomy. The scripture isn't about astronomy, it's about your relation to the ineffable Something which is of that ultimate reality you'll face as this mortal body passes.
Jesus came down and showed us what He is like..no ineffable Something involved at all any more.
 
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Aman777

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Aman, angels were created before the earth was.

In fact, they shouted for joy at its inception.

Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?


Don't forget that it was on the FOURTH Day the Stars were made. Gen 1:16 Adam's Earth was made on the THIRD Day. Gen 1:9-10

Therefore, the Angels were made between the 3rd and 5th Days, which was AFTER Adam was formed from the dust on the 3rd Day. Gen 2:7 That is WHY Humans are higher in the pecking order than Angels as the following verse reveals:

1Co 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels?

***Lucifer would also be included in that group, as he hadn't rebelled yet.

I take it Lucifer was assigned to the Garden of Eden ...

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

... possibly as a musician ...

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

... whose job was to play music for the angels that came to eat of the Tree of Knowledge which, of course, was placed off-limits to Adam & Eve.

I am assuming, of course, that the fruit on that tree was manna -- angels' food.

Psalm 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
Psalm 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven.
Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

Amen, brother. Ole Lucifer must a been a h--- of a musician. :)
 
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Aman777

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Context. When it names what was made on day five or another day, that could not mean anything that was already made. It has to be looked at in context of all that was made on that day. Otherwise you need to toss out the various days of creation.


Looks to me that you already have. If it says what was made that Day, that doesn't mean that it was made that Day, you say?


*** Great, so we don't know all about angels. Nor do we know all the people who may have lived before we have fossils for apes and early man.

Total conjecture. The times are not know by science or given in the bible as the time you claim. I saw no planet of the apes in Genesis? I saw a creation that included fish and animals, and birds and plants and man...no ape planet at all...ever.

It's called a scientific discovery, a Fact. Your problem seems to be that you don't know what Day it is. The sons of God (prehistoric people) were created and brought forth from Water on the 5th Day Gen 1:21 since they "moveth". We know they moved because Lucy was the First of THEIR kind who walked upright some 4 Million years ago.

*** That depends if the continents separated after the flood, in which case the current Tigris and other rivers need not represent the old locations. Just because man started after the flood in the mid east does not mean we were in some magic bublle under a lake you chose for no apparent reason before that! Sorry.

Come on Dad and catch up. Our world has NEVER suffered a Global Flood. Our Earth is a Rock covered in water. That's WHY it will be burned. ll Peter 3:10

***Mankind in other words. We were here from the beginning.
Now you grab an imaginary number for your imaginary ape people? Ha.
Man was created on the fifth day. Read the first chapter in the bible and see.

Not so, since there was some 9 Billion years, in man's time, from the first Day until Adam was made the 3rd Day. Then, there was some 9 more Billion years from the time of Adam to when the sons of God (prehistoric people) appeared in the Water on our Earth. Since today is the 6th Day and Adam was made on the 3rd Day BEFORE the Big Bang, EACH of God's Days/Ages is some 4.5 Billion years in length in man's time. You do the math.

*** We will have to disagree, and I will note for the lurkers that this sounds insane to me.

All men can be born again actually...no planet of the apes needed.

Apes don't need to be "created" since they came forth from the water already "created" by the Trinity. FYI, The Trinity (God) ALWAYS creates Eternally. Innocent Apes, don't know good and evil and are not subject to God's perfect Law. They are bound for Heaven but mankind MUST be born again by the AGREEMENT of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Gen 1:28 Gen 5:1-2 John 14:16 God bless you
 
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Bungle_Bear

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Aman777 said:
Then please correct me. Show me where I have taken the verse out of context or everyone will see that you cannot. BTW, please use the KJV since most others have been ALTERED. God Bless you
Already done, but I'll make it a little easier to digest. God created all the creatures that move in the water on the same day he made birds. Nowhere does it say he created birds from animals in the water. On the next day he created creatures on the land from the earth. Let me say that again: land animals were created from the earth. Whether you read Genesis 1:24 in context or out of context the words mean the same thing - land animals were created from the earth.

I bolded and underlined the Fact that EVERY living creature that moveth was created and brought forth from WATER.
Your understanding of 17th century English grammar is pretty poor. What the verse actually means is that God created whales and every creature that moves in water :doh:
 
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Aman777

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Already done, but I'll make it a little easier to digest. God created all the creatures that move in the water on the same day he made birds. Nowhere does it say he created birds from animals in the water. On the next day he created creatures on the land from the earth. Let me say that again: land animals were created from the earth. Whether you read Genesis 1:24 in context or out of context the words mean the same thing - land animals were created from the earth.

Your understanding of 17th century English grammar is pretty poor. What the verse actually means is that God created whales and every creature that moves in water :doh:

I see. With no evidence to support your view, you think you know more about what God meant, when He actually said NOTHING about water creatures:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind, (Trinity's kind) and every winged fowl after His kind: (Jesus' kind) and God saw that it was good.
 
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Bungle_Bear

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I see. With no evidence to support your view, you think you know more about what God meant, when He actually said NOTHING about water creatures:
I have no evidence to support my view except for the words of the KJV Bible and a proper understanding of old English grammar. But you want to dismiss it as not being evidence of itself? :scratch:

Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after Their kind, (Trinity's kind) and every winged fowl after His kind: (Jesus' kind) and God saw that it was good.
You really shouldn't go rewriting the bible to suit your needs. "their kind" and "his kind" (notice that they are not capitalised in the KJV) do not refer to the Trinity and Jesus. Seriously, if you want to insist on the KJV as the source of truth then I'm going to insist on two things: 1) that you quote the real text, not your edited version, and 2) that you learn to understand Jacobean English. Come back when you've done that and we can have a sensible discussion of what the words actually mean.
 
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