THE RAPTURE

Monk Brendan

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Right up there in the bold...rapiemur....

rapiēmur

Rapiemur is the equivalent of RAPE, not feeling wonderful. Is God going to RAPE us into heaven? God is, among His other attributes, a gentleman, and He is not going to FORCE us into heaven.

I know that the tribulation is going to be tough. And if I am still alive when that happens, then I will probably die. I'm not Superman, Batman, the Green Lantern, or even Wonder Woman. My idea of "roughing it" is cold water showers and no toilet paper. I would not last long under Sharia law. But I would die a CHRISTIAN.
 
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redleghunter

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Rapiemur is the equivalent of RAPE, not feeling wonderful. Is God going to RAPE us into heaven? God is, among His other attributes, a gentleman, and He is not going to FORCE us into heaven.

I know that the tribulation is going to be tough. And if I am still alive when that happens, then I will probably die. I'm not Superman, Batman, the Green Lantern, or even Wonder Woman. My idea of "roughing it" is cold water showers and no toilet paper. I would not last long under Sharia law. But I would die a CHRISTIAN.
I see you picked up on one meaning of about 4.

Dont' take my word for it though. EWTN's Taylor Marshall (who openly ridicules pre-trib rapture adherents) said this:

Here the Latin Vulgate describes the exaltation and assumption of the Catholic Church on the Last Day with the verb rapiemur. Rapiemur is the first person plural future passive form of rapere, meaning to “carry off, seize, or drag away.” It’s perfect passive form is raptus from which we derive the English word “rapture.” To be “raptured” is to be taken up. It can be positive, as with Christ exalting His Church. It can be negative, like an eagle seizing a fish from the sea.

Therefore, the usual answer of 'there is no rapture in the Bible' is an inaccurate answer. It's there and in your very own Latin Vulgate.
 
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JacksBratt said in post #74:

God always gives His people and out.

But not always right away.

For example, Job should be looked to by obedient Christians as an example of patient endurance through suffering (James 5:11). Just as God allowed Satan to bring suffering to righteous Job (Job chapters 1-2), so God sometimes allows Satan to bring suffering to even obedient Christians (Revelation 2:10). And during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, Satan will be allowed to unleash his wrath against even obedient Christians (not in hiding) in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

By the power of Satan working against Job (Job 1:12), he first suffered the loss of his wealth and servants from murderous robbers (Job 1:14-15,17) and a natural disaster (Job 1:16), and suffered the death of all his children in a natural disaster (Job 1:18-19). Then, again by the power of Satan working against him (Job 2:6), Job suffered the loss of his health (Job 2:7). But he remained patient through all his loss and suffering, never cursing God because of it (Job 2:9-10, Job 1:20-22), but wholly trusting in God through it all (Job 13:15).

Because of this, God greatly rewarded Job after his suffering was over, giving him twice as much wealth as he had before (Job 42:10,12, Job 1:3) and the same number of children as he had before (Job 42:13, Job 1:2), and giving him a very long life (Job 42:16), so that he lived to see his grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren (Job 42:16). While he was still suffering, Job mistakenly thought his suffering was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11), when in fact God had no wrath against him, because he was righteous in God's eyes (Job 1:1,8, Job 2:3). Instead, Job was suffering from the hand of Satan (Job 1:12, Job 2:7). Similarly, during the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, the suffering of obedient Christians won't be God's wrath against them, but Satan's wrath against them (Revelation 12:9,17, cf. Revelation 2:10).

God allowed Satan to bring loss and suffering to Job in order to prove Job didn't love God just because God had made him wealthy and secure (Job 1:9-12) and healthy (Job 2:4-6), but that Job would continue to love and trust God even if all his wealth, family, and health were stripped away from him. Indeed, Job would have continued to love God even if God had killed him (Job 13:15). This is the kind of love for God which Christians will need to have during the future Tribulation. They will need to continue to love God even when he allows Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") to make war against Biblical Christians (not in hiding) and to physically overcome them in every nation (Revelation 12:9,17, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13), stripping away all their wealth and family and leading them away to be beheaded (Revelation 20:4-6). Christians must so love God and so trust him that they have no fear of suffering or death (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:15), knowing even death will only bring their still-conscious souls into the presence of Jesus Christ in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Luke 23:43, Revelation 6:9-10), which is far better than remaining in this fallen world (Philippians 1:21,23).

Christians mustn't love their mortal lives to where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep from getting killed (Mark 8:35-38, John 12:25, Revelation 12:11), just as Christians mustn't love their families to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their families from starving or getting killed (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26). And Christians mustn't love their wealth to the point where they will deny Jesus Christ and the Bible in order to keep their wealth from being taken away (Matthew 6:24; 1 Timothy 6:9-10). Jesus Christ requires Christians to forsake everything, even their own lives, for His sake (Luke 14:33, Luke 9:23, Matthew 10:38-39), just as He forsook everything, even His own life, for their sake (Philippians 2:6-8; 2 Corinthians 5:15; 1 Corinthians 15:3).

1 Peter 4:12 ¶Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
 
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JacksBratt said in post #74:

He gave them specific instructions of what to do in order to be removed from the coming wrath...

Note that nothing requires the entire future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 will be God's wrath, or that any part of the Tribulation which will be His wrath will be directed against any of the Christians (1 Thessalonians 5:9) who will still be alive on the earth at that time (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6). Most of the Tribulation could be Satan's wrath working through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on the earth, like when Satan was allowed to work through evil people and natural forces to bring disaster on righteous Job (Job 1:12-20), against whom God had no wrath.

The Tribulation's first five seals (Revelation 6:1-11) won't be God's wrath or judgment. For after the first four seals, the Christian martyrs of the fifth seal ask God when He's going to bring His judgment against the non-Christian world (Revelation 6:10). And the killing of even more Christian martyrs, which the fifth seal foretells will happen sometime after the fifth seal (Revelation 6:11), won't be God's wrath against those Christian martyrs. So Jesus Christ's unsealing of the seals (Revelation 6), the future Tribulation's first stage, doesn't mean the events unsealed will be God's wrath, but that they will be permitted by God to happen at that time.

The Tribulation's sixth seal (Revelation 6:12-14) will happen sometime before the future Day of the Lord (Joel 2:31, Revelation 6:12), as in only a few years before. The future Day of the Lord itself won't begin until Jesus Christ's Second Coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10), which won't occur until Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, immediately after the future Tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). Similarly, the future Day of the Lord's wrath (Psalms 110:5) won't begin until Jesus' Second Coming (Revelation 19:19-21).

So the people quoted at the sixth seal (Revelation 6:17), during only the first stage of the future Tribulation, could be just as mistaken as Job was when Job said what was happening to him was God's wrath against him (Job 19:11). Just as what was happening to Job was actually Satan's wrath against him, not God's wrath, so the sixth seal could actually be Satan's wrath, not God's wrath. And just as the writer of the book of Job didn't go out of his way to correct Job's mistaken statement in Job 19:11; and just as the apostles John and Matthew didn't go out of their way to correct the mistaken statements of the people they quoted in John 7:12b and Matthew 27:63a; so the apostle John could have not gone out of his way to correct the statement of the people he quoted in Revelation 6:17.

After the Tribulation's sixth seal will occur its seventh seal (Revelation 8:1), out of which will come its seven trumpets (Revelation 8:1-2). Note that nothing requires any of the first six trumpets' events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will be God's wrath. The fifth trumpet's events will be the work of strange locust-like beings from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:2-10), led by a fallen angel from the bottomless pit (Revelation 9:11). And the sixth trumpet's events to the end of Revelation 9 will be the work of weird horse-like beings led by four fallen angels previously bound at the Euphrates (Revelation 9:14-19). So even though good angels of God will sound the first six trumpets, this could be announcing God's allowing the wrath of Satan to destroy a third of different things (Revelation 8:7-12, Revelation 9:15,18), just as Satan will subsequently, mid-tribulation, be allowed by God to cause a third of the angels (that is, his fallen angels) to be cast down to the earth permanently (Revelation 12:4,9).

Revelation chapters 8 and 9 will happen before the Antichrist's (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's beast's) future, literal 3.5-year worldwide Luciferian/Satanic reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). And the events in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 could be used by Satan to help prepare the non-Christian world to welcome that reign. For what Satan could do is first take great pleasure in causing the destruction in each event, but then claim the destruction isn't from him, but from YHWH, and that YHWH is a cruel tyrant god who hates mankind and only wants to make it suffer, while he (Satan, as "Lucifer") only wants the best for mankind (cf. Mark 8:33b). In this way, Satan could deceive the non-Christian world into actively hating YHWH and worshipping Satan (the dragon) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9). The Antichrist will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36).

After the Antichrist's literal 3.5-year reign (Revelation 13:5-7) is declared legally over at the sounding of the Tribulation's seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:15), the seven plagues of the seven vials of God's wrath will come out of the heavenly-temple opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1). The vials will then be poured out on the Antichrist's followers as God's judgment for their receiving the Antichrist's mark and worshipping his image (Revelation 16:2), and for their killing of Christians (Revelation 16:6-7, Revelation 13:7-10, Revelation 14:12-13, Revelation 20:4-6, Matthew 24:9-13).

During the Antichrist's worldwide reign, Christians will be hated and killed in every nation for refusing to renounce the name of Jesus Christ (Matthew 24:9-13). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the witness of Jesus Christ (Revelation 20:4), for refusing to accept the antichrist lies that Jesus Himself isn't the Christ (1 John 2:22), and that Christ Himself isn't in the flesh (2 John 1:7). They will be beheaded for refusing to renounce the sound doctrine of the Bible, the Word of God (Revelation 20:4; 2 Timothy 3:15 to 4:4), for refusing to depart from the Biblical faith and to give heed instead to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils (1 Timothy 4:1-2). They will be beheaded for refusing to worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 20:4, Revelation 13:15). And all of this will be Satan's wrath against Christians (Revelation 12:17), not God's wrath, for Christians aren't appointed to God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Even when God's wrath comes in the seven vials (Revelation 16), the future Tribulation's final stage, because Christians aren't appointed to God's wrath, none of the vials will be directed at any Christians who will still be alive on the earth at that time, still waiting for Jesus Christ's Second Coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15). Instead, they will go into protective chambers which they will have prepared for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the protective ark which they had prepared for themselves on the earth (Genesis 7:11,13).

Jesus Christ will return right after the seventh-and-last vial is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21, Matthew 24:29-30), and He will bring the Second-Coming wrath of God on the non-Christian world (Revelation 19:15-21). But before that Second-Coming wrath begins, Christians will be caught up together/gathered together (raptured) (1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, Matthew 24:31) into the sky to hold a meeting in the air with the returned Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
 
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Uber Genius

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would expand the scope of 'return' in what do we have Biblical evidence for more than one Resurrection? Two is the answer from Revelation 20. Then the question is: Is the first resurrection in Revelation 20 the church 'caught up' or happens after.

tion 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God. These are not the church and then those who came to follow Christ during the tribulation.

This is not an argument in favor of rapture inference.
 
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redleghunter

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tion 20:12-13 identifies those comprising the second resurrection as the wicked judged by God. These are not the church and then those who came to follow Christ during the tribulation.

This is not an argument in favor of rapture inference.
I was referring to the first resurrection earlier in the chapter. Not the second.
 
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