ANGELS: Spirit Beings? Do you believe in them?

Ron Gurley · Jun 3, 2017

ANGELS: Spirit Beings? Do you believe in them?

Angels are REAL and pure spirit beings who do the will of God...His "messengers"
who dwell in heaven and occasionally are revealed on earth..."men in white?"...NO wings!...NO halos!
Angels are SPIRIT beings, created by God to serve Him, though created higher than Man.
Angels have the spiritual gift of "free will".
Some, the "good angels", have remained obedient to Him and carry out His will,
while others, "fallen angels", disobeyed, fell from their holy position, and now stand in active opposition to the work and plan of God, following Lucifer / devil / satan....wherever.

"Good" angels reside in heaven.

Classifications:
A. Cherubim (Genesis 3; 2 Kings 19:15)
B. Seraphim (Isaiah 6)

"Bad" angels will reside in the "lake of fire"for eternity. Matthew 25:41

Most of the time, "Good" angels have manifested themselves on earth as "glowing men dressed in white".
Metaphors: They hover around the "throne of God". Art / Music: robes, halos, wings...nice try!

The Hebrew word for "angel" is "mal`ach",
and the Greek word is "angelos".
Both words mean “messenger” and describe one who executes the purpose and will of the One whom they serve.

Angelology: The Doctrine of Angels

1 Thessalonians 4 (NASB)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven
with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and
with the trumpet of God, and
the dead in Christ will rise first.

Matthew 26
64 Jesus said to him, (trial by Caaphas)
“You have said it yourself; nevertheless I tell you,
hereafter you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” (with angels?)

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation,
the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him
when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.”

Matthew 28:2
And behold, a severe earthquake had occurred,
for an "angel of the Lord" descended from heaven and
came and rolled away the stone and sat upon it.

John 20:12
and she (Mary M.) saw two angels in white sitting,
one at the head and one at the feet,
where the body of Jesus had been lying.

Matthew 28:5
The angel said to the women,
“Do not be afraid; for I know that you are looking for Jesus who has been crucified.

Luke 1:30, 34
The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God.
Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?”

Luke 2:9-10
And an "angel of the Lord" suddenly stood before them, (shepherds) and
the glory of the Lord shone around them; and they were terribly frightened.
But the angel said to them,
“Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;

Luke 22:42-43(NASB)
“Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.”
Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.

1. Who is "the angel of the LORD" ?...a pre-figuration / shadow of Jesus the Christ?

SEE:
Genesis 16: 7-11; Genesis 22: 11-15; Exodus 3:2; Numbers 22:22-35; Judges 2:1-4;
Judges 6:11-22; Judges 13: 3-21;

"the angel of God":

2 Samuel 14: 17-20; 2 Samuel 24:16 1 Kings 19:7; 2 Kings 19:35; 1 Chronicles 21: 12-30
Psalm 34:7; Psalm 35:5-6; Isaiah 37:6; Zechariah 1:11-14; Matthew 1:20-24; Matthew 2:13-19;

2. What are "Guardian angels"?

Psalm 91...Security of the One Who Trusts in the Lord

Used by satan to tempt Jesus?

Matthew 4:6!
11 For He will give His angels charge concerning you,
To guard you in all your ways.
12 They will bear you up in their hands,

Matthew 18:1-11
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones, for I say to you that their "angels in heaven" continually see the face of My Father who is in heaven.

3. Some angels have NAMES:
Gabriel: Luke 1:19

Michael:
Jude 1:9
But Michael the archangel,
when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven,
Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon.(satan)
The dragon and his angels waged war,

4. And the book of Revelation is absolutely FULL of ANGELS!

Some do not acknowledge the existence of ANY spirit being. That is SAD-U-SEE!

Act 23:8
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.

And that is FAIR-U-SEE!

Whatcha think??...or do you??

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

What makes you believe they don't have wings?

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

Or rather "some" of them have wings.

tturt · Jun 3, 2017

Zec 5:9 "Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens."

Matthew Henry Commentary "These are God’s agents for removing wickedness out of the land. God’s covenant faithfulness removes the sin of His people far from them (Ps. 103:11, 12; Mic. 7:19)."

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

tturt said:
Zec 5:9 "Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heavens."

Matthew Henry Commentary "These are God’s agents for removing wickedness out of the land. God’s covenant faithfulness removes the sin of His people far from them (Ps. 103:11, 12; Mic. 7:19)."

True but I don't think they are the only ones with wings even though the Bible doesn't mention any other angels with wings, just for the fact of the picture I posted not long ago. And we know that they definately don't have wings when they appear in a human like form as messengers.

Ron Gurley · Jun 3, 2017

Post #2/3: Q: "What makes you believe they ( or "some" of them) don't have wings?

A: It is not Biblical. Assumption: "hover around the Throne of God" does not prove it.

Is God the Father a bearded old man, sitting on a throne, floating on the clouds?? Nope.

The TRI-UNE GOD is pure and perfect SPIRIT!

John 1:18
No one has SEEN God (the Father) at any time; (only manifestations!)
the only begotten God (Jesus) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 6:46
Not that anyone has SEEN (God) the Father, except the One who is from God (Jesus); He has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God (the Father) at any time;
if we love one another, God abides (dwells) in us, and His love is perfected in us.

And no one has ever SEEN:
A. Cherubim (Genesis 3; 2 Kings 19:15)
B. Seraphim

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Post #2/3: Q: "What makes you believe they ( or "some" of them) don't have wings?

A: It is not Biblical. Assumption: "hover around the Throne of God" does not prove it.

Is God the Father a bearded old man, sitting on a throne, floating on the clouds?? Nope.

The TRI-UNE GOD is pure and perfect SPIRIT!

John 1:18
No one has SEEN God (the Father) at any time; (only manifestations!)
the only begotten God (Jesus) who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

John 6:46
Not that anyone has SEEN (God) the Father, except the One who is from God (Jesus); He has seen the Father.

1 John 4:12
No one has seen God (the Father) at any time;
if we love one another, God abides (dwells) in us, and His love is perfected in us.

And no one has ever SEEN:
A. Cherubim (Genesis 3; 2 Kings 19:15)
B. Seraphim

Have you seen this thread?
Real picture of an angel.

Ron Gurley · Jun 3, 2017

Post #4: "two women, and the wind was in their wings"

These chicks AIN'T ANGELS!

Ron Gurley · Jun 3, 2017

Real picture of an angel.

And these manifestations ain't "angels" either!

Most of the time in the Bible, "Good" angels have manifested themselves on earth as "glowing men dressed in white".

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Real picture of an angel.

And these manifestations ain't "angels" either!

Most of the time in the Bible, "Good" angels have manifested themselves on earth as "glowing men dressed in white".

Ok

tturt · Jun 3, 2017

I didn't write the Scriptures I posted.

We do want to consider all Scripture to form our perspectives. Right? "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:" His clothes were white but his appearance was like lightning which has many colors such as Color + Design Blog / Bolts From the Blue: The Electric Colors of Lightning by COLOURlovers :: COLOURlovers

Wonder why we can accept the Scripture such as Daniel 8:15-6 that states some appear as male but not accept the ones (Zec 5:9) that state some look like women?

Hall, yeah, I know some have wings while others don't. That's the reason I posted those Scriptures. Those who appear as humans would look funny stuffing their wings inside their clothing.

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

tturt said:
I didn't write the Scriptures I posted.

We do want to consider all Scripture to form our perspectives. Right? "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:" His clothes were white but his appearance was like lightning which has many colors such as Color + Design Blog / Bolts From the Blue: The Electric Colors of Lightning by COLOURlovers :: COLOURlovers

Wonder why we can accept the Scripture such as Daniel 8:15-6 that states some appear as male but not accept the ones (Zec 5:9) that state some look like women?

Hall, yeah, I know some have wings while others don't. That's the reason I posted those Scriptures. Those who appear as humans would look funny stuffing their wings inside their clothing.

I agree

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

I think the one caught on camera was a Cherubim because they are highly involved in the worship of the Lord and that's what my wife was doing, worshipping the Lord. I was just reading this:

A cherub (plural cherubs or cherubim) is an angelic being. A look at the Bible's mentions of cherubs (more than 60 times) offers insight into their role and activities.

The first mention of cherubs is found in Genesis 3:24: "He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life." These angels guarded the Garden and held a flaming sword.

Golden images of cherubs are mentioned in the design of the lid of the Ark of the Covenant (Exodus 25:18-19), revealing the importance of cherubim in the presence of God. Cherubs were also included in other aspects of the tabernacle's design (Exodus 26:31) and later the Jewish temple, as noted in Ezekiel 41.

Second Samuel 22:11 notes cherubs as God's attendants when He comes to the aid of people (also Psalm 18:10). Hezekiah prayed, stating, "O Lord, the God of Israel, enthroned above the cherubim, you are the God, you alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth" (2 Kings 19:15).

Ezekiel 10 includes a vision that shows the work of cherubs in God's presence. Their description includes wings (10:5, 19) and hands (10:7-9). Ezekiel 28:16 also mentions cherubs as guardians. A detailed description of cherubs given both in Ezekiel 10 and in Ezekiel 1 describes them as having four faces (that of a cherub, human, lion, and eagle in 10:14; and that of a human, lion, ox, and eagle in 1:5). They are described with four wings, two used for flying and two for covering their bodies (1:6-23; 10:21). It is unclear if this is true of all cherubs or not.

In the New Testament, the only reference to cherubs is in Hebrews 9:5: "Above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat." It simply notes them as part of the Ark.

Based on these observations found throughout Scripture, we can see that a cherub is an angelic being. He is frequently mentioned in Scripture, especially in connection with the worship of God and in His presence. A cherub's physical description includes hands like a human and wings, with a body somewhat similar to humans yet distinct in many ways. At least some cherubs are armed with flaming swords. While cherubs seen by Ezekiel included four faces, four wings, and many eyes, it is uncertain whether this is true of all cherubs or was limited to those in his vision. Overall, cherubs are clearly important angelic beings given the task of serving directly in God's presence, highly involved in the worship of the Lord.
From: compellingtruth.org

Hall · Jun 3, 2017

tturt said:
I didn't write the Scriptures I posted.

We do want to consider all Scripture to form our perspectives. Right? "In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:" His clothes were white but his appearance was like lightning which has many colors such as Color + Design Blog / Bolts From the Blue: The Electric Colors of Lightning by COLOURlovers :: COLOURlovers

Wonder why we can accept the Scripture such as Daniel 8:15-6 that states some appear as male but not accept the ones (Zec 5:9) that state some look like women?

Hall, yeah, I know some have wings while others don't. That's the reason I posted those Scriptures. Those who appear as humans would look funny stuffing their wings inside their clothing.

It does look like the one on the picture has a countenance like lightning and it is white too. You're right It would look funny trying to hide the wings inside a coat lol.

~Anastasia~ · Jun 3, 2017

Well, since you posted in Traditional Theology.

Yes, angels are created beings, who are spirits, and do not have physical bodies in the sense that humans do. Angels were given the gift of free will. Some angels have rebelled, and function as (demonic) evil spirits. The others remain loyal to God, and we refer to them as Holy Angels. Angels are now "fixed" in their choice ... those that are Holy will remain Holy.

Angels do not have the artistic haloes drawn in some art. The haloes come from iconography, and are meant to show which persons, angels, beings, etc. are recognized as being dedicated to and pleasing to God. But such beings could be seen as "glowing" such as Christ, Moses, and Elijah were seen by Peter, James, and John at the Transfiguration, as a result of God's glory.

(Haloes are traditionally shown as a glowing nimbus around the head, not the stylized floating ring that has come to be depicted in western art - it is meant to depict something more like the reality of God's glory surrounding Holy Angels and Holy persons, such as in the Transfiguration.)

Wings are another artistic device that shows them to be angels, but angels do not necessarily have wings. Some, however, do, such as the six-winged seraphim.

There are actually nine orders of angels. (These are reflected in the halo of Christ in iconography, who has nine lines, forming the shape of the Cross, in His halo - one of the things that sets Him apart from every other figure depicted in iconography.)

Their purpose is to serve God, and to that end some are ministering spirits to humans, especially those who are among the faithful. They are often (but not always) seen to be like men, yet sometimes not exactly like men, since they often inspire fear or awe, or are even something men may at first think to worship.

This is the Orthodox teaching about angels, and yes, of course I believe in them.

Ron Gurley · Jun 3, 2017

Seraph, plural "seraphim"
...appear in the Temple VISION (NOT a SEEN angel!) of the prophet Isaiah as "six-winged creatures" (SEE:Isaiah 6)

seraph | angel

Cherub, plural "cherubim"
...throne bearers of God, rather than an intercessory functions

cherub | religion

mark kennedy · Jun 3, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Seraph, plural "seraphim"
...appear in the Temple VISION (NOT a SEEN angel!) of the prophet Isaiah as "six-winged creatures" (SEE:Isaiah 6)

seraph | angel

Cherub, plural "cherubim"
...throne bearers of God, rather than an intercessory functions

cherub | religion

I don't think the prophet Isaiah knew what he was seeing, this seems so mythical it's staggering. Never the less, God has created these spirit beings and apparently describing their appearance is pretty hard to translate in a way us humans can comprehend. Whatever these angels actually are is really hard to take in, one of these days it will be obvious but right now it's kind of out of reach. I don't know if they literally have wings or not, what I do know is the God has created creatures that are well beyond our ability to truly comprehend, let alone prove.

~Anastasia~ · Jun 3, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Post #15: "...nine orders of angels..."

As per usual, this false doctrine is NOT Biblical.
"Tradition"?..."Magisterium"?...of the RCC?

Why do you ask in Traditional Theology if you don't want the Traditional answer? I have no idea what the Roman Catholic Magesterium teaches. I'm not Roman Catholic.

Please do read the Statement of Purpose - this forum does not exist to argue against Tradition.

However, I do wish to reply to your charge - the other orders of Angels ARE mentioned in Scripture actually. If you are interested, rather than quoting and pasting them all, here's a link. They have also included some of the historical thinking found in Judaism, which is actually quite interesting.

Christian angelology - Wikipedia

Just a quick point in case you don't want to follow the link - nearly all Christians refer to Gabriel and Michael (correctly) as Archangels, which represents a distinction beyond just Cherubim and Seraphim.

mark kennedy · Jun 3, 2017

~Anastasia~ said:
Why do you ask in Traditional Theology if you don't want the Traditional answer? I have no idea what the Roman Catholic Magesterium teaches. I'm not Roman Catholic.

Please do read the Statement of Purpose - this forum does not exist to argue against Tradition.

However, I do wish to reply to your charge - the other orders of Angels ARE mentioned in Scripture actually. If you are interested, rather than quoting and pasting them all, here's a link. They have also included some of the historical thinking found in Judaism, which is actually quite interesting.

Christian angelology - Wikipedia

Just a quick point in case you don't want to follow the link - nearly all Christians refer to Gabriel and Michael (correctly) as Archangels, which represents a distinction beyond just Cherubim and Seraphim.

I think one of these days we are going to meet the angels and while we might be surprised, we will learn something we still struggle with on our earthly plane. Their not that different then the rest of us. I'm sure they are quite spectacular and God has glorified them in ways we find unimaginable right now. But honestly, can we expect to understand spiritual things like angels when were still figuring out how to have a conversation with the God who made us? If we do, I think we might have some priority issues.

Grace and peace,
Mark

~Anastasia~ · Jun 3, 2017

mark kennedy said:
I think one of these days we are going to meet the angels and while we might be surprised, we will learn something we still struggle with on our earthly plane. Their not that different then the rest of us. I'm sure they are quite spectacular and God has glorified them in ways we find unimaginable right now. But honestly, can we expect to understand spiritual things like angels when were still figuring out how to have a conversation with the God who made us? If we do, I think we might have some priority issues.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Well, I'm not claiming to know everything about angels. Just trying to keep order in this forum, and replying to the charge that there is no Scriptural basis for my post (not that that is actually a requirement in this forum area).

Like us? In some ways, I suspect they are. In others, I'm sure quite different. Being purely spiritual, not subject to physical limitations, death, or sin and being able to be directly present in God's Presence has to make some differences, for now.

And actually, Angels are pretty far down my list of things to consider. I just initially thought the OP was looking for replies.

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