Revelation 13

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9th March 2003 at 11:36 PM Wildfire said this in Post 4:
...COUNT the number of the beast...

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Note that in the past, OT and NT, God has always spoken in the most common alphabet of the people he is speaking to at the time he is speaking. If Revelation 13:18 is meant for our time, then I believe it's possible that the calculation it refers to should be done in the most common alphabet of the people who will need to perform the calculation.

But how are we to "count the number of the beast" (Revelation 13:18), "the number of his name" (Revelation 13:17, 15:2)? Note that the letters of the Hebrew and Greek alphabets also stand for numbers; it's possible that we are to apply the same numbering system to the letters of our Roman alphabet:

A = 1
B = 2
C = 3
D = 4
E = 5
F = 6
G = 7
H = 8
I = 9
J = 10
K = 20
L = 30
M = 40
N = 50
O = 60
P = 70
Q = 80
R = 90
S = 100
T = 200
U = 300
V = 400
W = 500
X = 600
Y = 700
Z = 800


Under a system like this, the name "JOHN SMITH" would equal 10 plus 60 plus 8 plus 50 plus 100 plus 40 plus 9 plus 200 plus 8, for a total of 485. So the number of the name "JOHN SMITH" would be 485.

When the Bible refers to the Antichrist and the "number of his name," it says "his number is 666" (Revelation 13:17-18).

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ephod, when I get some time, we have to talk bro. I think the two of us could put work together in some very interesting theories and discussions...

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Today at 03:27 AM JesusServant said this in Post #26

ephod, when I get some time, we have to talk bro. I think the two of us could put work together in some very interesting theories and discussions...

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Well i hope you fella's do get it together as i'm enjoying the read.

Well, first I'll say I think he may be right (and I have to give wildfire credit too, he's the first I've seen that brought up this possibilty) that the witnesses are the nation of Israel (Jews) and Christians. Now you have to keep in mind that the symbol of the woman in Revelation 12 is the nation of Israel (Jews - because the Jews make up Israel even when it was torn apart each time and the Jews sent throughout the world - Moses called the Hebrews Israel even before they possessed the land that is now the nation)

(Revelation 12:17) (1)And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, (2)which keep the commandments of God, and (3)have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

(1) satan was wroth with the nation of Israel no matter what he has tried God is able to restore Israel again and again (from Nebuchadnezzar and Babylon, then from Rome, and this latest time from Nazi Germany - IMHO, Israel has been restored three times, and this past restoration was the final restoration of the nation). This could be the very reason satan is "wroth" with Israel. No matter what he has done to try to destroy this witness and testament of the Living God, God is able to restore her every time.

(2) "which keep the commandments of God" - what if this refers to the Jews, the witness of the Living God. They are still blinded to Jesus being the Messiah, but they still seek God and serve Him through the Law and works of the law.

(3) "and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" - Christians.

So Revelation could be read as...

And satan was wroth with O Israel, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (both Jews and Christians), which are the Jews that keep the commandments of God and the Christians that have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I know at first it seems that we're reading about one group of people. I'm just throwing out a possibility

Also, God has promised the Jews that they will be redeemed and Jesus said He came not for the righteous but the unrighteous. So if there are Jews that keep the commandments of God, then they are righteous and therefor only need now accept that Jesus is the Messiah and Jesus' prophecy of "(Luke 13:35) Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord." - and this will set up the return of Christ.

I know many probably don't want to even study this possiblity, because that would mean that the Christians and Jews are the ones that will be lying dead in the streets for three days, but the good news, is we are resurrected (on the THIRD DAY!) just like Christ!

Just something to prayfully ponder. God bless.

Nevermind I'm wrong. In Revelation 11:13, it says after the witnesses are killed that 7000 were killed in the city and that the remnant were afrighted. So if I were right, there would be no remnant at this time. Oh well Back to studying.

I think that the witnesses are Moses and Elijah due to Elijah stopping the rain in OT (1 kings 17:1) see rev 11:6. also he didn't experience natural death. and Moses because he (and Elijah) appeared together at Jesus' transfiguration and there are also many similarities between plagues and judgements against Egypt (see ex 7-11) and the future plagues and judgements of the 2 witnesses.

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It's when I continue to read Revelation 11 that I have difficulties with it. It all fits until you read further down. I look forward to your response.

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Ephod, I really appreciate the time you've taken to post. It is really interesting to look at it symbolically vs literally. I too am a very literal person and seeing things symbolically does not come natural to me. So I appreciate your time and energy greatly!

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I thought 6 was man?

The book of Revelation was not some imaginary thing made up by John . This was sent Directly from GOD! And yes we are to take the Bible in a literal sense. What it says is what it means. God says if we take away from His words , He will take away our part in in the book of LIfe. Revelation 13:16-!7 means what it says.  This Is my opinion . I myself will never ever take any kind of mark on my forehead or hand!

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