Will there be a second chance for salvation after the Rapture?

Riberra · Jun 1, 2017

Quasar92 said:
First of all, Jesus showed John in Rev.20:4 the tribulation martyrs, seven years after the events in 1 Thess.4:16,

Can you show us where in the text it is written that Rev.20:4 will happen seven years after the events in 1 Thess.4:16 ?

-1 Thessalonians 4:15 make it clear that 1 Thessalonians 4:16 IS TIED TO THE COMING OF THE LORD NOT 7 YEARS BEFORE...

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are ALIVE AND REMAIN unto THE COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Now if you look at the meaning of the word REMAIN

continue to exist, especially after other similar or related people or things have ceased to exist.

That is clearly talking about SURVIVORS BELIEVERS which prove that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is tied to the Coming of Jesus IN THE CLOUDS AFTER the tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31

We will be FOREVER with Jesus in His Kingdom that will be ESTABLISHED HERE ON THE EARTH At His Coming.That is the reason why Jesus will descend from Heaven....

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Quasar92 · Jun 1, 2017

BABerean2 said:
Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　(Notice the present tense and past tense of this verse)
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　(from Jeremiah 31:31-34)
Heb 8:9　 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.　
Heb 8:10　 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.　
Heb 8:11　 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.　
Heb 8:12　 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　

Heb 9:11　 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.　
Heb 9:12　 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.　
Heb 9:13　 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh,　
Heb 9:14　 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?　
Heb 9:15　 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.　
Heb 9:16　 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.　
Heb 9:17　 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives.　
Heb 9:18　 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood.　

Heb 12:22　 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels,　
Heb 12:23　 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect,　
Heb 12:24　 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.　

Why do you continue to pretend that the text above does not exist?

.

All of the Hebrew text in your above post is accurate and correct and is what the Body of Christ was and is to this day, built upon. Consisting of Jews and Gentiles alike, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13. Israel HAS NOT YET accepted the New Covenant, through belief in Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Which WILL NOT rake place until Jesus SECOND COMING, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14:4-6.

When people believe/receive Jesus as Lord and Savior, they become members of His Body, the Church, NOT to Israel. As I have told you three times previously. The Church IS NOT Israel and you willm find such a view NOWHERE in the Bible. The New Coivenant DID not come into existence, until Jesus ratified it through His shed blood on a cross. No amount of your arguing and bearing false witness against me, that I pretend the content of your post doesn't exist. It is clear, you care far more about protecting falsely interpreted scriptures, than seeking the truth from them.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 1, 2017

Riberra said:
Can you show us where in the text it is written that Rev.20:4 will happen seven years after the events in 1 Thess.4:16 ?

-1 Thessalonians 4:15 make it clear that 1 Thessalonians 4:16 IS TIED TO THE COMING OF THE LORD NOT 7 YEARS BEFORE...

1 Thessalonians 4:15
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are ALIVE AND REMAIN unto THE COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

Now if you look at the meaning of the word REMAIN

continue to exist, especially after other similar or related people or things have ceased to exist.

That is clearly talking about SURVIVORS BELIEVERS which prove that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is tied to the Coming of Jesus IN THE CLOUDS AFTER the tribulation mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31

We will be FOREVER with Jesus in His Kingdom that will be ESTABLISHED HERE ON THE EARTH At His Coming.That is the reason why Jesus will descend from Heaven....

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church

The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!

The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts:

1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11.

2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!.

3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.

4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1.

The three "he's" in Dan.9:27, is the man of lawlessness in 2 Thess.2:3,4 and 8, where the Scriptures in verses 3 and 7 reveal, the Church departs and is taken out of the way, before he is revealed.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 1, 2017

parousia70 said:
You are right. That does not make a bit of difference. Since I can (and have) shown from scripture that you teach the opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught, your 80 years of erroneous schooling has been shown to be left wanting.

Ok...Lets review.
Acts 2:47
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Lets count the Gentiles in the Church at this time the Lord was adding people to it daily in Acts 2.

Lets see... hmmm... 500? 300? 200? 100? nope...
hmmm...one, two, 10, 20? 50?..
no wait... scratch that...

The Correct, truthful answer is ZERO.

A grand total of ZERO gentiles were being added to the Church Daily at that time.. this Church, Like the Church with Moses in the Wilderness (Acts 7:37-38) was a 100% JEWISH entity. It consisted entirely of Faithful, Obedient Israel. and we know from scripture that Faithful Obedient Israel is the ONLY Israel God recognizes as Israel, while the unbelieving wicked sons of Abraham are Cut off forever and have no inheritance. We also know that Gentiles could always join Israel by belief and obedience, and were considered full citizens of the Nation. As the believing Jewish remnant learned shortly after Pentecost, New Covenant Nazarene Israel is no exception.

The Church is the Nazarene sect of Biblical Judaism, of whom Paul was a "ringleader".

You call 100% "mostly"?... I guess they didn't teach Math at Divinity school then?

It plainly is.
It is the ONLY Israel with a covenant relationship with the Living God.
The unbelieving rest are "Cut off from among the People" and "have no inheritance" according to scriptures you ignore.

Such was true in Moses' Day (Acts 7:37-38) Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

Isaiah pointed out that in times of Israel's great apostasies, the faithful of the nation were reduced to a tiny remnant of elect ones (Isaiah 1:8-9) through which Israel continues, while the unbelieving rest are cut off, destroyed from among the people. So it was in the first century, where Paul identifies himself as an example of the faithful remnant (Romans 11:1-5).

The apostles continually say that the members of the Nazarene sect are the true elect ones (2 Tim 2:10; Col 3:12; Galatians 6:15-16; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9-10 ).

However, as you demonstrate from your postings, you have a bizarre idea of who is Israel (you count the disobedient sons of Abraham as Israel while discounting entirely the faithful sons of Abraham).

YOU TEACH THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT THE APOSTLES TEACH.

You teach that the wicked, disobedient sons of Abraham are to be counted as Israel, while the Faithful, obedient Sons of Abraham are Cut off from the people and have no inheritance!

Such is untenable to any honest bible expositor.

parousia70 wrote: >>>You are right. That does not make a bit of difference. Since I can (and have) shown from scripture that you teach the opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught, your 80 years of erroneous schooling has been shown to be left wanting."<<<

Your above attack on me is opinionated speculation, based upon what you have been taught without a clue as to fielding a viable argument against Scriptural truth. Attacking my views without Scriptural support to verify your claims they are false, has no validity whatever.

Please tell me where you obtained your qualifications to teach the Bible?

FYI, everyone has been offered God's free gift of salvation, through the New Covenant, Jesus brought into existence, through His shed blood on a cross, for us all. It IS NOT exclusively for Israel, who has yet to accept it.

In addition, the Church consists of Jews and Gentiles alike, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, into the One Body of Christ, His Church, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13.

Quasar92

Riberra · Jun 2, 2017

Quasar92 said:
...In the FIRST of His TWO comings,

Jesus FIRST COMING was 2,000 years ago ....Jesus talk about HIS SECOND COMING in Matthew 24:29-31

BABerean2 · Jun 2, 2017

Quasar92 said:
All of the Hebrew text in your above post is accurate and correct and is what the Body of Christ was and is to this day, built upon. Consisting of Jews and Gentiles alike, as recorded in 1 Cor.12:12-13. Israel HAS NOT YET accepted the New Covenant, through belief in Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Which WILL NOT rake place until Jesus SECOND COMING, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14:4-6.

Is there a flaw in your Bible, which has smudged the word "Israel" in Hebrews 8:8, which is copied word-for-word from the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
Have you used scissors to cut the word "Israel" out of Hebrews 8:8?

How are you disconnecting the fulfillment of the New Covenant by Christ in Hebrews 8:6 from the New Covenant promised to Israel in Hebrews 8:8?
Is there a chapter division in your Bible between those two verses?

Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　

.

parousia70 · Jun 2, 2017

Quasar92 said:
parousia70 wrote: >>>You are right. That does not make a bit of difference. Since I can (and have) shown from scripture that you teach the opposite of what Jesus and the Apostles taught, your 80 years of erroneous schooling has been shown to be left wanting."<<<

Your above attack on me is opinionated speculation, based upon what you have been taught without aq clue qs to fielding a viable argument against Scriptural truth.

my citing scriptures that refute your view is not a personal attack.

Attacking my views without Scriptural support to verify your claims they are false, has no validity whatever.

Did you even read my post?
I cited several scriptures that refute your views, and not surprisingly you refuse to address a single one on them, and instead erroneously claim I have not cited any. Our readers are smarter than that.

Please tell me where you obtained your qualifications to teach the Bible?

Please cite the authoritative, governing body that you believe is qualified to say who can teach the Bible and who cannot .

FYI, everyone has been offered God's free gift of salvation, through the New Covenant, Jesus brought into existence, through His shed blood on a cross, for us all. It IS NOT exclusively for Israel, who has yet to accept it.

Israel plainly did accept it.
3000 in one day!

Did you rip those pages out of your bible or something?

This who did not were destroyed from among the people and have no inheritance.

Quasar92 · Jun 2, 2017

Riberra said:
Jesus FIRST COMING was 2,000 years ago ....Jesus talk about HIS SECOND COMING in Matthew 24:29-31

When you take the time to review my post #263, you will be able to clearly see the Scriptures you are denying, that refute you.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 2, 2017

BABerean2 said:
Is there a flaw in your Bible, which has smudged the word "Israel" in Hebrews 8:8, which is copied word-for-word from the promise of the New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34?
Have you used scissors to cut the word "Israel" out of Hebrews 8:8?

How are you disconnecting the fulfillment of the New Covenant by Christ in Hebrews 8:6 from the New Covenant promised to Israel in Hebrews 8:8?
Is there a chapter division in your Bible between those two verses?

Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—　

.

when are you going to cut out your pointless arguing? I fully agree with you, the New Covenant was brought into existence by Jesus and accepted by everyone who believes/receives Him as their Lord and Savior. They all become members of the One Body of Christ, the founder of His Church. Both the New Covenant and Jesus activating it, DID NOT take place until Jesus actions that has all taken place during NT times.

Israel HAS NOT accepted it yet, and will not do so until Jesus SECOND COMING, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14:3-5. The Church IS NOT Israel, nor isd Israel the Church. Both of which are completely non-
Scriptural.

Either cut out making derogatory remarks about me, or I will file a report against you!

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 2, 2017

parousia70 said:
my citing scriptures that refute your view is not a personal attack.

Did you vent read my post?
I cited several scriptures that refute your views, and not surprisingly you refuse to address a single one on them, and instead erroneously claim I have not cited any. Our readers are smarter than that.

Please cite the authoritative, governing body that you believe is qualified to say who can teach the Bible and who cannot .

Israel plainly did accept it.
3000 in one day!

Did you rip those pages out of your bible or something?

This who did not were destroyed from among the people and have no inheritance.

Here is the kind of attack on me personally you deny: You wrote: >>>Did you rip those pages out of your bible or something?<<< Posted here to remind you of what you forget.

You alluded to the 3,000 Peter brought to the Lord in Acts 2, as those who are Israelites receiving the New Covenant offer of Grace, by the Father, brought into existence by Jesus. Though the majority of those 3,000, were Israelites who were added to the CHURCH that day, they are by no means the nation of Israel, who rejected Jesus as their Messiah, and the New Covenant of Grace offered by the Father.

Israel will not accept the New Covenant, until Jesus returns in His Second Coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and Zech.14:4-5, when they finally recognize Him as their Messiah.

FYI, everyone who believes/receives Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior, become members of His One Body, the Church, in which He is the Head as well as the Founder. As recorded in Col.1:18 and in 1 Cor.12:12-13. The Church IS NOT Israel, not is Israel, the Church. Both of which are non-scriptural>

Quasar92

Riberra · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
When you take the time to review my post #263, you will be able to clearly see the Scriptures you are denying, that refute you.
Quasar92

You have been trained erroneously to believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 talk about a different Coming of Jesus in the clouds that the Coming mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 ....but you are wrong .

However, you are right to say that when Christians die their SOULS goes to Heaven in the presence of Jesus---[let me add] and their SOULS upon arrival in Heaven are placed by God in a state of rest (as in sleep) [Sleep in Jesus] until their resurrection ....no rapture needed to get Christians in Heaven!

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is talking about the DEAD believers whose SOULS are in Heaven [The BRIDE] that Jesus will bring with Him [to be resurrected] at His Coming ...

The BULK of the CHURCH is actually in Heaven ...it is made of the Billions of DEAD BELIEVERS whose SOULS are actually in Heaven [Sleep in Jesus] whose numbers continue to grow since Jesus have ascended to Heaven to prepare a place for the SOULS of the faithful believers ....Think about it !

*The souls of the unrepentant unbelievers for their part ...goes to Hades/Hell [a very unpleasant domain inside the Earth] at their death ...

parousia70 · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
Here is the kind of attack on me personally you deny: You wrote: >>>Did you rip those pages out of your bible or something?<<< Posted here to remind you of what you forget.

An honest question predicated upon your willful ignorance of the scriptures I cite, and their clear refutation of your assertions.

You alluded to the 3,000 Peter brought to the Lord in Acts 2, as those who are Israelites receiving the New Covenant offer of Grace, by the Father, brought into existence by Jesus.

Yes. Yes I did

Though the majority of those 3,000, were Israelites

Yes. 100% is most definitely a MAJORITY.

If you are aware of any non Israelite members of that 3000, please present your evidence.

they are by no means the nation of Israel, who rejected Jesus as their Messiah, and the New Covenant of Grace offered by the Father.

Such is untenable.
They were by ALL MEANS the Nation of Israel.

Were the 7000 that God preserved who "did not bow their knee to Baal" by no means "The Nation of Israel" either?

Really??

What is the difference?

BABerean2 · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The Church IS NOT Israel, nor isd Israel the Church.

Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.

(GW)

.

Quasar92 · Jun 3, 2017

Riberra said:
You have been trained erroneously to believe that 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 talk about a different Coming of Jesus in the clouds that the Coming mentioned in Matthew 24:29-31 ....but you are wrong .

However, you are right to say that when Christians die their SOULS goes to Heaven in the presence of Jesus---[let me add] and their SOULS upon arrival in Heaven are placed by God in a state of rest (as in sleep) [Sleep in Jesus] until their resurrection ....no rapture needed to get Christians in Heaven!

1 Thessalonians 4:14
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

This is talking about the DEAD believers whose SOULS are in Heaven [The BRIDE] that Jesus will bring with Him [to be resurrected] at His Coming ...

The BULK of the CHURCH is actually in Heaven ...it is made of the Billions of DEAD BELIEVERS whose SOULS are actually in Heaven [Sleep in Jesus] whose numbers continue to grow since Jesus have ascended to Heaven to prepare a place for the SOULS of the faithful believers ....Think about it !

*The souls of the unrepentant unbelievers for their part ...goes to Hades/Hell [a very unpleasant domain inside the Earth] at their death ...

The Scriptures I have been trained from, is what you claim I have been erroneously trained by, that refute you. Explain to me how the Bride/Church gets into heaven, for the marriage to the Lamb/Jesus, recorded in Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation takes place on earth. Then in verse 14, Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming WITH HIS CHURCH; riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven. A review of Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 tell us how.

Your belief in "soul sleep" is refuted by Jesus in Lk.16:19-31, Rev.6:9 and Rev.7:9-17. It is also clear, you did not read my post #263, that come directly from the Scriptures teaching us, there are two comings of Jesus yet to take pace.

Where, may I ask, did you obtain your qualifications to teach to Bible?

As I previously wrote, Israel is not the Church, nor is the Church, Israel, The nation of Israel are non-believers, rejecting Jesus as their Messiah. They will finally recognize Him as their Messiah at His second coming, as recorded in Zwch.12:10 and Zech.14:4-5.

All of us who believe/receive Jesus as our Lord and Savior become members of His Body, the Church. Not Israel. He is the Head and Founder of the Church, not Israel. See Col.1:18 and 1 Cor.12:12-13.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 3, 2017

parousia70 said:
An honest question predicated upon your willful ignorance of the scriptures I cite, and their clear refutation of your assertions.

Yes. Yes I did

Yes. 100% is most definitely a MAJORITY.

If you are aware of any non Israelite members of that 3000, please present your evidence.

Such is untenable.
They were by ALL MEANS the Nation of Israel.

Were the 7000 that God preserved who "did not bow their knee to Baal" by no means "The Nation of Israel" either?

Really??

What is the difference?

The "wilful ignorance of the Scriptures you accuse me of comes from the Bible Colleges I have earned my qualifications from, to teach the Bible, are Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada; Liberty University, in Lynchburg, VA and Dallas Theological Institute , in Dallas, TX. And where, may I ask, did you earn your qualifications to teach the Bible, and to judge others who have?

FYI, you have refuted none of what I have posted, except by faulty interpretation of the Scriptures, you assume to do so

BABerean2 said:
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.

(GW)

.

.

BABerean2 said:
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.

(GW)

.

Quasar92 · Jun 3, 2017

BABerean2 said:
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.

(GW)

.

The "Israel of God" Paul referred to in Gal 6:16 pertain to the Israelites who believed/received Jesus as their Messiah, and members of His one Body, the Church, which He founded and is the Head of. Refer to Col.1:18 and 1 Cor.12:12-13. Israel is not the Church, nor is the Church Israel. Both of which are non-Scriptural.

Israel has not yet accepted Jesus as their Messiah. That will not take place, until Jesus second coming to the earth, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.

Quasar92

Quasar92 · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The "wilful ignorance of the Scriptures you accuse me of comes from the Bible Colleges I have earned my qualifications from, to teach the Bible, are Prairie Bible Institute, in Three Hills, Alberta, Canada; Liberty University, in Lynchburg, VA and Dallas Theological Institute , in Dallas, TX. And where, may I ask, did you earn your qualifications to teach the Bible, and to judge others who have?

FYI, you have refuted none of what I have posted, except by faulty interpretation of the Scriptures, you assume to do so

This was posted in error, because when I kept attempting to respond to a post by BABerean2, this post kept coming up. My apology, if I did something wrong.

Quasar92

Riberra · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The Scriptures I have been trained from, is what you claim I have been erroneously trained by, that refute you. Explain to me how the Bride/Church gets into heaven, for the marriage to the Lamb/Jesus, recorded in Rev.19:7-8, while the tribulation takes place on earth.

They [THEIR SOULS ] get to Heaven because they have died from natural death or because they have been beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast/Antichrist.

Quasar92 said:
Then in verse 14, Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming WITH HIS CHURCH; riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven. A review of Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 tell us how.

These are the SAINTS MARTYRS wearing white robes ....Revelation 6:9-11

Quasar92 said:
Your belief in "soul sleep" is refuted by Jesus in Lk.16:19-31, Rev.6:9 and Rev.7:9-17.

Revelation 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar THE SOULS of them THAT WERE SLAIN for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

They [the SOULS of the Early CHRISTIANS MARTYRS]were not crying anymore after that it was said to them THAT THEY SHOULD REST... UNTIL their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

All the Christians believers that will be killed as they were for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held ....will be wearing WHITE ROBES.

Quasar92 said:
Where, may I ask, did you obtain your qualifications to teach to Bible?

From the same AUTHORITY that was provided to the 12 Apostles to teach the Gospel of Jesus .

parousia70 · Jun 3, 2017

Quasar92 said:
The "wilful ignorance of the Scriptures you accuse me of comes from the Bible Colleges I have earned my qualifications from.....

I agree.

FYI, you have refuted none of what I have posted, except by faulty interpretation of the Scriptures, you assume to do so

If that were true, you would have already used the scriptures I cite to show us why they do not mean what I contend they do.

Until such a time as you do that, your objections are moot.

So, again, were the 7000 God preserved who did not bow their knee to Baal "Israel" or were they, as you claim "most certainly NOT Israel"? (1 Kings 19:18 / Romans 11:4)

Use as much scripture as you can to demonstrate your answer.

Quasar92 · Jun 3, 2017

Riberra said:
They [THEIR SOULS ] get to Heaven because they have died from natural death or because they have been beheaded during the 42 months reign of the Beast/Antichrist.

These are the SAINTS MARTYRS wearing white robes ....Revelation 6:9-11

Revelation 6:9-11

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar THE SOULS of them THAT WERE SLAIN for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

They [the SOULS of the Early CHRISTIANS MARTYRS]were not crying anymore after that it was said to them THAT THEY SHOULD REST... UNTIL their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

All the Christians believers that will be killed as they were for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held ....will be wearing WHITE ROBES.

From the same AUTHORITY that was provided to the 12 Apostles to teach the Gospel of Jesus .

It is clear, the past five posts of my replies to you, with Scriptural proof for the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, refute the errors of your views, go past your understanding of the Scriptures.

You have yet to explain how every believer, left alive on earth at the first of the two comings of Jesus get into heaven, beside all of them who previously died in Him.

Nor can you explain your claim of who the saints are in Rev.6:9-11 and 7::9-17, when the Church does not go through the tribulation, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3; 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8 and Rev.4:1-2 and 19:7-8.

How is it the Church returns with Jesus from heaven in His second coming, while the tribulation is taking place on earth?

The teachings of Jesus and His apostles are clearly documented in the four post link below, in their teachings of the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church.

Which clearly reveals you were not listening to them from your claim they are your qualifications to teach the Bible. Which is more clearly understood as being formerly unqualified to do so. You have no argument that keeps coming from an empty wagon.

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

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