Soul ties?

Far Side Of the Moon said:

I honestly think it is... This body is just a vessel that contains our soul.

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That is a residual of the ancient heresy of gnosticism.

"God formed MAN (NOT a vessel for a man) from the dust of the ground ..."

Sam91 said:

Not really.

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Yeah really. That mindset was expressed by one song writer in this way:


It is the same as saying "I am me, I own a computer and I live in a house." But it ALSO says that neither the computer or the house are truly "me."

Sam91 said:

''I see it says 'your body's' ... I was going to say 'present yourselves as living sacrifices'..."

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The Good News translation uses "yourselves" on that verse. New Century (NCV) uses "lives." Every other major translation says "bodies."

Sam91 said:

So surely there isn't a proper basis for it to be a ministry?

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Some people try to take every little niche and make a full blown ministry out of it. Not a good idea. I believe that kind of thing is needed in many cases; but it should be handled by any counselor, mentor or pastor. My wife and I have ministered this way and it takes all of about 5 minutes. And it does make a change in the person's life. (if they are truly repentant of their former lifestyle)

Galatea said:

Forgiveness is not incumbent upon one's sorrow. It is there, ready for the taking.

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Correct. It is incumbent on proper repentance.

Sam91 said:

But it wasn't what I was saying. It was how you were interpreting it.
I don't even understand the difference between soul and spirit... people say there is one. All I know is that God made me. I have a body, feelings and a spirit/soul. God will look after it too as it is His.

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OK. Maybe I was thinking you were making that distinction because many people I interact with here and elsewhere keep pumping that viewpoint. I do not want you (or anyone else) going down that path.

You ARE a body, you ARE a soul and you ARE a spirit. (kind of like 3 in 1)
Take any part of that away and you are dead.

Sam91 said:

1) What are soul ties? I had never heard of them until someone from my old Church phoned a couple weeks ago and told me that the new Pastors at my old church were setting up in ministry to loosen them or something.

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It's some sort of spiritual link between two souls created when they have sex.

Sam91 said:

2) Is there any biblical basis for separating them at all?

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No, the closest thing you get is "two become one flesh", but that means more that there's a deep psychological and emotional connection made when people have sex. Science has shown this to be true, our bonding hormone, oxytocin is released during sexual intercourse.

Sam91 said:

3) Any traditional Church basis?

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No, the idea of soul ties didn't come about until the 20th century or maybe even the 21st century.

Sam91 said:

Right...

Have no idea if there is anywhere else to post this... so I apologise in advance for probably posting in the wrong place like last time. Please be gentle with me as I'm not fond of debate.

1) What are soul ties? I had never heard of them until someone from my old Church phoned a couple weeks ago and told me that the new Pastors at my old church were setting up in ministry to loosen them or something.
Some base it on 1 Samuel 18:1, Deuteronomy 13:6...and claim this to be a "soul tie" or many make out to be a supernatural bond/soul tie, it's not though.
It's a deep commitment to another person regardless of the cost...we are souls(many of us aren't use to hearing that since it's not regularly used anymore).
Jonathan's soul being knit with David's...in short, it's a covenant with another person.

Being bonded/tied up with another person(christian or not)... this can happen through sexual relations or deep intimate conversations...I've known many people who have "jumped ship" because of their deep attachments to someone else...some engaged in sexual relations with the other person, but others had not since they'd met online or corresponded by mail and formed such attachments to the other person because of their deep need to be with someone who values and validates them...some want that so much that they lower their guards and or standards just because there's someone who's saying all the right things to them etc.

2) Is there any biblical basis for separating them at all?
John 15:4
James 5:16-20
Chapter 2 of 2 Timothy

3) Any traditional Church basis?


Thank you very much. At the moment from all I have read I only see a one flesh relationship and God said no man should separate. So feel like God gave me a new Church home at the right time. However, it keeps coming up in my mind and can't let it go until I know whether it is unbiblical or not.

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The Bible says for us to repent of ungodliness, turn to God/get saved, abide in the
True Vine etc. Scripture warns against idolatry we aren't to worship man-made idols, ideas, self or place more value on our jobs, status, other people.

Dave-W said:

The Good News translation uses "yourselves" on that verse. New Century (NCV) uses "lives." Every other major translation says "bodies."

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The Greek is soma, which can be pretty straightforwardly translated as "body."

I do agree with your take on what it means to be human, though, Dave.

As for soul ties, I think it takes a basic truth - there are consequences for relationships, and sometimes they need to be dealt with at a spiritual level - and blows it out of all proportion.

Galatea said:

Forgiveness is not incumbent upon one's sorrow. It is there, ready for the taking.

Don't get me wrong, godly sorrow is good- but self flagellation over and over again about sin is no good. God is not a sadist, He doesn't want people to beat themselves up over sins AFTER THEY ARE OUT OF THEM.

What I mean is this, if I am getting drunk every night- I would be miserable and sorrowing because I am out of God's will and out of fellowship with Him. But if I STOP getting drunk and ask for forgiveness and the strength not to relapse, then sorrowing is over.

Godly sorrow worketh repentance.

Not repentance worketh godly sorrow. The sorrow BRINGS you to repentance.

The Prodigal Son was an absolute mess in the far country, sorrowing. But when he came home, there was no more sorrow.

Forgetting those things which are behind, I press toward the mark of the high calling which is in Christ Jesus.

Sorry for being strong, here, but I think the sorrow is while you are in your sins- not after you have repented.

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"self flagellation" explains itself - it is self not divine. However, my post was about the trouble some have in accepting forgiveness. Note these lines from my post.
"Restoration – being made whole again is about surrendering to the LORD and loving Him and hating the wicked desires. . . . We are so selfish and passionate for our fleshly desires, that it might require considerable suffering and our own obstinate barrier to the Holy LORD before our desire for the Holy Presence of the LORD destroys the desires of the flesh." Maybe not biblical, but the believer must desire the LORD more than self is the point.

I agree with what you posted about forgiveness - the atonement has provided the forgiveness. However, I wish to emphasis the difficulty some believers have in the surrendering to the Lord and Master because of their guilt and its consequences in prohibiting the Holy Ghost in making a new creature - from broken to whole.

Guilt and suffering have a role - maybe as with Zacchaeus? Because of its pain it pushes the believer towards restoration or relief. Guilt and suffering are not self flagellation when one is guilty and suffers over it. The damage to ones self and to others stands in stark contrast to the glory of the presence of the LORD. But . . . but the glory and presence of the LORD drenches only those who have surrender self to the Master.

Crucifying self is not easy for some. There is a man who said, "The longest step in believing is from the foot of the cross. I have worn a trench around the foot of the cross." This man has little to be guilty about according to worldly standards. From his perspective and those who know him he is a good man. He struggles in finding reasons to hate his carnal nature.

Some genuinely find surrender relative easy. Both the criminal and the perfect child of Christian parents may find surrender easy. Others find it a constant struggle. Yet others have never been able to surrender, despite their desire and spiritual need.

As Holy Ghost sanctified, the hate towards our wicked past reminds us of what will never ever be done again, and how such wickedness is viewed by the LORD. Because of divine forgiveness the guilt is removed. In some cases the suffering remains. King David might be an illustration.

For me? My testimony is that I know what the blood of the Lord Jesus covers. And I hate everything under the precious blood . . and I will keep on hating and being shamed by those things! Because I see what is under the blood there is not anymore willful sinning so that grace may abound! The shame of my sins, not the guilt, motivates both the hate of what I have done and the commitment to never again. Call it godly sorrow or self flagellation, but I must remember over and over again of what I did to crucify my Lord. I am with Amy Carmichael, a Jerusalem sinner.

But for "she who is milk white" there ought not be, as the myth goes, any need of a Mount Calvary.

Sam91 said:

You see that's the thing. If according to Romans 12:1 oh I see it says 'your body's' ... I was going to say 'present youselves as living sacrifices'... then again a body houses yr soul. But my point is that if I am cleansed through the blood of Jesus, classed as 'Holy and righteous' due towhat Jesus did, I shouldn't have any soul ties. I prayed about it last night and felt like I was praying needlessly. I am yet to be convinced that I'm spiritually unclean and that my soul isn't God's alone.

Is this biblical, the ministry part of it?

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SOUL BODY SPIRIT - Probably should not post this because it will cause some confusion and a lot of disagreement. Please, read and try to comprehend that what is actually known about the composition of man is more philosophical speculation than divine revelation. Honest theologians and interpreters should not find there is biblical treatise on the subject. This is presented so that some caution might be considered in our knowledge of the composition of man. Just a different view to demonstrate our ignorance.

Before considering the idea of ‘one flesh” one ought to consolidate their theology concerning the composition of man.
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Is man a Body, Soul, and Spirit
or is man a Body (dust) + Spirit (divine breath) = Soul

Theology of Anthropology - What is the nature of man?

Biblically the nature of man is described in Genesis 2:7.

Literally it reads: “and-he-is-forming YHWH Elohim the-human soil from the-ground and-he-is-blowing in-nostrils-of-him spirit-of living-ones and-he-is-becoming the-human to-soul-of living.”

In a little less literally translation it reads: “ And YHWH Elohim forms the man -- dust from the ground, and blows into his nostrils spirit of life, and the man becomes a living soul.” Adam did not become a soul without a body or a body/soul/spirit composition. What Adam became was a man. Man is a soul, which is an earthly body made alive by the Spirit of God.

Again we find what is a soul in Genesis 46:27 just after all the descendants of Israel are listed in verses 8 -26. It is said of them literally, “and-the-sons-of Joseph who he-was-born to-him in-Egypt soul two; all-of the-soul of-the-house Jacob the-one-coming toward-Egypt seventy.”

Or a little less literal translation would read, “and the sons of Joseph, who were born to him in Egypt were two souls; all the souls of the house of Jacob, who came to Egypt, were seventy souls.”

Did 70 disembodied souls go to Egypt?
Were Jacob’s boys ghosts/souls?
Were there these two disembodied souls or sons of Joseph born in Egypt?
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Composition of Man

Greek Philosophy provides the idea that man is composed of body, soul, and spirit.

The body is temporal and made of material but participates in or captures the immortal image of its own soul. The spirit is what provides animation to the body. In Greek Philosophy all three are required for there to be a man.

The Biblical composition of man is not as many think – body/soul/spirit – this is pure Greek philosophy adopted into the western philosophical tradition. The terms in the Greek language were defined by Greek ideas and not Hebrew ideas.

Western philosophy starting with the ancient Greeks (Plato particularly) thought of soulishness as an entity – something that exists apart, i.e. on its own just as body exists on its own. In Greek philosophy and religions, the soul was immortal. It existed endlessly before birth and after death. Greek spirit or spirits were the mechanisms that animated the world of nature and the affairs of men. So there were spirits for weather, water, mountain, sea, river, animal, crop, fate, fertility, governments and armies. Neither use in the Greek corresponds with what is the Biblical view of spirit and soul. Soul and spirit in Greek were very different from the meaning in Hebrew or Aramaic.

This Greek philosophy has infiltrated western Christian theology because the New Testament texts were transmitted in the Greek language from the first centuries and through western philosophy to all western languages including English. Even western translations of the Bible (English versions included) are captured by the Greek philosophy that man is body, soul, and spirit and so translate the passages using English words with these Greek philosophical presuppositions. So, we in the Western (Greek) philosophical tradition are trapped in seeing the scriptures as teaching a body/soul/spirit as the composition of man rather than what is intended by the Hebrew and Aramaic languages.

The biblical view of the composition of man:
Man is of a body (dust) + spirit (divine breath) = soul or man.
Soul and man are equivalent terms.

Genesis reveals a body created by God and animated by the Breath of God (Spirit) becomes a living soul. Living soul equates to human being. A soul is the body made from the elements of the earth that has the spirit of life “blown” into it by God. This life spirit is from God and does not belong to man but is, so to speak, on loan from God. Man is a living soul. That is, an earthly body animated and made alive by life (Spirit) from God.

The breath of every human being is the Spirit of breath on loan from the Holy God and does not belong to humans. When man sins he will become separated from the Holy God and thus from the life Spirit of the Holy God – this is why sin causes death. Because of sin man looses the breath of life belonging to God. What is left is a decaying body made of the dust of the earth.

There is nothing of man that is automatically immortal or even everlasting apart from divine intervention. Anyone’s existence after death continues to be a creative act of God. He provides eternal life rather than humans having a soulish immortality or a spiritual survival after death. To place themselves into the correct understanding believers ought to know that when God quits thinking (perseverance) about us - or about the earth, or the universe – it isn’t anymore – gone as if it had never been. Every man that has lived existed only because God has provided the gift of life, and every man alive or that will live only exists because God has provided the gift of life. Life is the breath of God and therefore, very, very holy.

The translation into the Greek language of what the Lord Jesus taught in Aramaic (a version of Hebrew) and what was written in the Old Testament did not have Greek words with ideas that corresponded exactly to Hebrew ideas. H. Wheeler Robinson, New Testament and Greek scholar, demonstrates in his commentaries how the Greek philosophy has corrupted the terms used mainly by the Apostle Paul.

This was a long answer to say, No, we don’t have a relationship with our flesh. Biblically, we are our flesh and only our flesh. This is what the resurrection on the last Day or Judgment Day is about – resurrection of the physical/fleshly body and not ghosts. You know, the sea will give up its dead, etc. Most reject this biblical revelation because they like the pagan Greek idea - the idea that they are immortal souls or spirits. Applying a Greek or western philosophical view of the composition of man is why some of those studying the Bible are confused about the difference between soul and spirit.

Please remember - this is just another view to encourage caution about what is actually known.

Sam91 said:

So I'm looking for scripture and advice for peace of mind as I should have forgotten this by now.

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Sam91, Glad you found thenarrowpath.com some help. The same site has a M-F - twice daily - on line talk radio broadcast with a toll free call in number. Listen live on your computer. Steve Gregg will have some thoughtful and wise answers for any question.

Sam91 said:

So is there a need for someone to go to ministry to break these things?

Following a proper Christian life, devoted to God and not being of the world, submitted and obedient to God after turning away from sin is all that is needed? My friend who I didn't bring up until later in the thread seems to think she is tied to anyone she ever had 'relations' with. I told her that I couldn't say so for sure but I believe now she has given herself to the Lord her soul would have been cleaned of all that.

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Soul ties – This idea seems to be extracted from passages as quoted below by the employment of what some would deduce as eisegetical interpretation.

2 Corinthians 12:21New American Standard Bible (NASB)

21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.

1 Corinthians 6:15-20New American Standard Bible (NASB)

15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16 Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “The two shall become one flesh.” 17 But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18 Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Colossians 3:5New American Standard Bible (NASB)

5 Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry.

the old scribe said:

or is man a Body (dust) + Spirit (divine breath) = Soul

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I would make that more like this:

Body (dust) + Spirit (divine breath) => Soul.

When a physical body is inbreathed by God, a third part called the soul is produced.

Sam91 said:

You see that's the thing. If according to Romans 12:1 oh I see it says 'your body's' ... I was going to say 'present youselves as living sacrifices'... then again a body houses yr soul. But my point is that if I am cleansed through the blood of Jesus, classed as 'Holy and righteous' due towhat Jesus did, I shouldn't have any soul ties. I prayed about it last night and felt like I was praying needlessly. I am yet to be convinced that I'm spiritually unclean and that my soul isn't God's alone.

Is this biblical, the ministry part of it?

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HE is the overseer of your soul and the ONE who makes men holy

Apart from HIM we aren't sanctified and apart from HIM we certainly can't sanctify ourselves

When Paul disciplined the body, it was because we can't be unevenly yoked with those who aren't washed

How can we be?

It's no different in the understanding that a lilttle yeast leavens the whole batch because there is always going to be influences and interference and intrusion from those who are not together with us or not in line with is in THE TRUTH

This is not to say that we turn our backs on unbelievers

But we are supposed to be a separated people in the ministry of reconcilng bringing those who do not know the truth to THE TRUTH

We don't follow their direction
But we do lovingly correct those who are in error in their ignorance

I had a hard time trying to understand what you were asking

Sorry to come in this late now
I think I understand what you are asking

You who are not made unclean by those whom you come in contact with as long as you do not follow them in what is forbidden you to do

As long as you don't alter the TRUTH so as to please and conform with those who are not yet washed