Is it against God to see life as vanity?

Angeleyes7715 said:

I can't accept the explaination for death. I also don't accept being a martyr or leading people to Christ / giving up everything for other people as justification for being stuck on this evil planet with a miserable life only to die and be promised something I can't see.

Is this wrong to feel this way?

One my favorite books is Ecclesiastes and the author basically says what I'm saying. This whole life is meaningless and vain.

Sometimes I also feel like our condition that God left us in is much worse than losing your only son. We are stuck on an evil planet for years doing meaningless labor and work only to lose our loved ones and die and have everything go to nothingness. Not only that he promises us something we cant see. And we live in fear for years just waiting for our time. And then if we don't do what God says we burn for all eternity.

I'm a Christian. I am no stranger to the teachings. I even have the Holy Spirit infilling, but yet I feel so unhappy about this life God gave us that I find it hard to live.

Can feeling this way be a sin?

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Solomon does not say that life is vanity, but all is vanity, and he refers to the world system, sin and death. Life is good and glorious because God is life. I am in sympathy with your point of view, though. I have spent many years understanding the conspiracy of the aristocracy to destroy freedom and set up and one world government. They want the population reduced so they feed us GMO's filled with Round-UP and fill the skies with chemtrails of aluminum. They dumb us down through government school indoctrination, and steal from us blindly through inflation, income taxes and unending wars.

This made me very angry and discouraged. But this anger has only come because of focusing too much on the evil that surrounds us instead refocusing on the good that is everywhere. Life does not suck. Sin, death and evil suck. The creation is good, but is marred with sin and death. Nonetheless, the animals multiply, plants grow, rain falls and the created world is filled with magnificent beauty from the sunsets, plants and even down to the molecular level. The creation is good.

And even if the entire creation was evil, which it is not, God is greater than all of His creation and He is purely good, right, just and perfect in his kindness, love and generosity. The English word, "God," is a truncation of the word, "good." Our ancestors understood the goodness of God.

Feeling this way is not sin. One third of the psalms are called Deprecatory Psalms because the psalmists are complaining about the evil around them, their success, and their pursuit of the psalmists to trap them. No, it is not sin, for God knows the evil. Take heart. Remember the goodness of the Lord and all of the creation, and know that this present evil will pass.

I enjoy Ecclesiastes very much also, and one good medicine (unexpected) can be to read the book of Job but not in an anticipating or thinking way -- not thinking to know already, but to read like one might a novel, just for its own sake, as a story. But to read it as if real. As if it could have really happened just exactly that way even.

Yes and No..

You have detailed a lot of different issues not just one... So you need to break down your beliefs and ideas in forms that can be dealt with one by one..

""""I can't accept the explaination for death."""""

You state this but don't bother stating the explanation that has been given to you... So how can anyone respond to this if they do not know what explanation you have received?

"""I also don't accept being a martyr or leading people to Christ""""

This is sin... Jesus said to go out ans share His message to all nations ( peoples) so rejecting what Jesus says is rejecting Jesus.. And Christians have to be willing to choose death over renouncing Jesus as our LORD and Redeemer..

""""""giving up everything for other people as justification for being stuck on this evil planet with a miserable life only to die and be promised something I can't see.""""""

i cannot understand this question / statement.. Was there supposed to be a full stop in there? like was it two points? And explain what is /are you talking about when you say justification by giving up everything??? Justification comes by believing Jesus and trusting in the Atonement He secured for our salvation.. Jesus gives us salvation we do not gain salvation by giving stuff..

""""""""One my favorite books is Ecclesiastes and the author basically says what I'm saying. This whole life is meaningless and vain."""""""

King Solomon was correct that the pursuit of wealth power and social status was vanity and a waste of time.. But the very fact He came to that wisdom made His life just that little bit less vain.. A life where someone comes to the knowledge of salvation and the Love of the LORD is not a life of vanity.. A good thing has come out of ones life and what is good is not vanity.. King Solomon was talking about all the things people peruse and are consumed by that do not have eternal worth being vanity..

""""""We are stuck on an evil planet for years doing meaningless labor and work only to lose our loved ones and die and have everything go to nothingness. Not only that he promises us something we cant see. And we live in fear for years just waiting for our time. And then if we don't do what God says we burn for all eternity.""""""

The knowledge of the Love of God through the Atonement of the LORD Jesus Christ removes fear from us... Faith is trust and specifically trusting God so those who trust God do not need to see what lays beyond this world / life.. If one trusts Gods declarations then we trust that what He says about eternity and what will be there is Truth... Christians should have 100% confidence in all the Message of God..

"""""I'm a Christian. I am no stranger to the teachings.""""""

You are no stranger to the teachings? Yet you live in fear.. are you a stranger to the following scriptural teachings of the Holy Bible?

1 John 4: KJV
17"Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. {18} There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. {19} We love him, because he first loved us."

I can only conclude from your post that you are a stranger to the above Bible teaching..

""""I even have the Holy Spirit infilling""""

Are you sure??


"""""but yet I feel so unhappy about this life God gave us that I find it hard to live.""""""

I feel unhappy in this world too.. But i stay here and persevere because i hope to be of some value to God and to my brothers and sisters in Jesus... And in the end suicide is just self murder.. And i really don't want my final act on earth to be committing murder...

Jesus did kinda say the world is evil.

Verses like: John 15:19, 1 John 5:19 and even Luke 6:20-26.

Those verses clearly say if you righteous in this world, you will suffer a lot more than those who aren't (obviously since the world is evil). And those who would be deemed saved are clearly suffering and even in tears.

It's probably not a sin to be quite pessimistic about this world. It's fully of evil and negative things anyway. Even if you say a small % of people around the world live a good life, is that a good thing?

I used to feel the same way, why would God knowingly leave us on this troubled planet to let us rot until the Holy Spirit gave me this scripture: "For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of Christ." (Romans 8:21).

The Lord Jesus went through similar experiences on this sin and death dominated planet. Hard and discouraging as it may be, we His disciples can't ask for better treatment (Luke 9:23).

But if you let Him, the joy of the Lord will be your strength (Nehemiah 8:10).

If you're going through grief and the loss of a loved one reading the book of Job and psalms can be helpful.

Also, feeling by itself is not a sin. But if unchecked, feeling could give birth to sin. Hope that helps. God bless .

Our feelings are the result of thinking patterns.
Our thinking patterns have many influences.
But we can choose to think certain things, and not to think on other things.

Solomon started out so well. He admitted he needed God's wisdom, to be king over Israel.
But the time came that he forsook the greatest wisdom of all--worshiping God alone.
Solomon went deep into idol worship, because he married heathen wives, and then built temples for their gods.

Ecclesiastes was written after Solomon forsook the wisdom of worshiping God alone.
and this book is a clear reflection of what happens to the human soul, when it forsakes God, and seeks fulfillment in other things.
All those other things will leave the soul empty and feeling meaningless.

We have idols of another type these days.
Social interaction. Social status. Power. Money. Sex. Recreation. Drugs. Alcohol. Work. Independence. Yard-sale bargains. Antiques. Family.

Anything that takes the time and focus that we ought to be giving God, has become an idol to us.
And an idol will leave us feeling empty and worthless.
As if life is meaningless.

The cure is to return to God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Learn to live in thanksgiving, praise, and worship.
The closer one walks with God, the more one will find meaning in life... and even in death.

mukk_in said:

I used to feel the same way, why would God knowingly leave us on this troubled planet to let us rot until the Holy Spirit gave me this scripture: "For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the One who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of Christ." (Romans 8:21).

The Lord Jesus went through similar experiences on this sin and death dominated planet. Hard and discouraging as it may be, we His disciples can't ask for better treatment (Luke 9:23).

But if you let Him, the joy of the Lord will be your strength (Nehemiah 8:10).

If you're going through grief and the loss of a loved one reading the book of Job and psalms can be helpful.

Also, feeling by itself is not a sin. But if unchecked, feeling could give birth to sin. Hope that helps. God bless .

Click to expand...

It's very confusing but we find this a lot in the Bible and also just by looking at the lives of disciples.

So how did the popular belief these days that being a Christian, you'll have a good life came about? It seems contradictory to the Bible.

PollyJetix said:

Our feelings are the result of thinking patterns.
Our thinking patterns have many influences.
But we can choose to think certain things, and not to think on other things.

Solomon started out so well. He admitted he needed God's wisdom, to be king over Israel.
But the time came that he forsook the greatest wisdom of all--worshiping God alone.
Solomon went deep into idol worship, because he married heathen wives, and then built temples for their gods.

Ecclesiastes was written after Solomon forsook the wisdom of worshiping God alone.
and this book is a clear reflection of what happens to the human soul, when it forsakes God, and seeks fulfillment in other things.
All those other things will leave the soul empty and feeling meaningless.

We have idols of another type these days.
Social interaction. Social status. Power. Money. Sex. Recreation. Drugs. Alcohol. Work. Independence. Yard-sale bargains. Antiques. Family.

Anything that takes the time and focus that we ought to be giving God, has become an idol to us.
And an idol will leave us feeling empty and worthless.
As if life is meaningless.

The cure is to return to God with all the heart, soul, mind, and strength.
Learn to live in thanksgiving, praise, and worship.
The closer one walks with God, the more one will find meaning in life... and even in death.

Click to expand...

I was surprised to see the idea "Ecclesiastes was written after Solomon forsook the wisdom of worshiping God alone."

How do you know this? I'm not suggesting it has to be wrong, but I haven't seen any suggestion of that before. Just from careful and complete reading, I did not reach that conclusion. For instance, though Ecclesiastes is quite surprising at times, it doesn't have any falsehoods I have noticed. (It is though by far one of the most subtle and challenging parts of the scriptures, and does indeed look false in many ways at first, especially when under age 40 I think.) Not saying it's impossible, but what are they, precisely? Please don't think I'm suggesting either one of us has to have total and perfect understanding of Solomon's view. I merely wonder at the idea this is after he has fallen into idol worship.

Using a simplification (which will leave things out), a reduction, a big part of the message of Ecclesiastes (but not all of the messages) is ---

Ecclesiastes: Most all of the worldly things that seem so attractive and wonderful to us are really just vanity and chasing after the wind. The worldly is nothing, in the end. It is like dust.

timewerx said:

Jesus did kinda say the world is evil.

Verses like: John 15:19, 1 John 5:19 and even Luke 6:20-26.

Those verses clearly say if you righteous in this world, you will suffer a lot more than those who aren't (obviously since the world is evil). And those who would be deemed saved are clearly suffering and even in tears.

It's probably not a sin to be quite pessimistic about this world. It's fully of evil and negative things anyway. Even if you say a small % of people around the world live a good life, is that a good thing?

Click to expand...

We are still mortal, will suffer, all, every person, both righteous and unrighteous, and will die.

But.....the unrighteous will suffer extra calamities, extra losses, of what they imagine were good things, lost. In time. Before the end of this life. Bitterness even in this life. Bitterness.

While those relying truly on Christ, truly believing, and thus obeying His commands -- will find rest and comfort and blessings. Comfort and joy, even as their bodies begin to fail.

Both groups will suffer though; we are in mortal bodies, under the domain of nature. Suffering from that alone -- that's a given.

Ecclesiastes 2:16 "For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool."

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward

This is the viewpoint of one who does not see eternity from God's perspective.

However, toward the end of the book, Solomon begins to reassess and see things from the right perspective... He comes to the conclusion at the end, that it is important to remember the Lord in the days of your youth, before you get old, and then find that all your work is meaningless.

Ecclesiastes 12:
1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth...
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it...
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

PollyJetix said:

Ecclesiastes 2:16 "For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool."

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward

This is the viewpoint of one who does not see eternity from God's perspective.

However, toward the end of the book, Solomon begins to reassess and see things from the right perspective... He comes to the conclusion at the end, that it is important to remember the Lord in the days of your youth, before you get old, and then find that all your work is meaningless.

Ecclesiastes 12:
1 Remember now thy Creator in the days of thy youth...
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it...
13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

Click to expand...

In case you didn't see it yet, I added some extra above. Just in case, let me quote it again at the end of this.

"For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of the fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man? as the fool."
--> All mortal bodies will suffer, and die.

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward."
--> 'You can't take it with you', all this worldly stuff we imagine (wrongly) is good. All of it is just dross.
""Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal."

--------

Using a simplification (which will leave things out), a reduction, a big part of the message of Ecclesiastes (but not all of the messages) is ---

Ecclesiastes: Most all of the worldly things that seem so attractive and wonderful to us are really just vanity and chasing after the wind. The worldly is nothing, in the end. It is like dust.

Angeleyes7715 said:

Sometimes I also feel like our condition that God left us in is much worse than losing your only son. We are stuck on an evil planet for years doing meaningless labor and work only to lose our loved ones and die and have everything go to nothingness. Not only that he promises us something we cant see. And we live in fear for years just waiting for our time. And then if we don't do what God says we burn for all eternity.

Click to expand...

So there is good news and bad news.

First the good news: psalms, the prophets, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes all represent complaints about God and his administration of this planet. God allows creatures with limited understanding of how God works to vent their frustrations.

Bad news is that you will need significant study to recognize God's plan of including us to both build the Kingdom of God, and to rule and reign with him in the future. It took Jesus 3.5 years to transform and prepare the disciples for this work. And there are no other positions open in God's organization other than disciple. These would include what is the kingdom of the world? How did it arise? What is god's answer, and how did he bring it about? What is your identity in Christ and why? And understanding of basic theology is required, followed by a commitment to serve in a way you are called and equipped. But don't be fooled into thinking we are just to wait around till Jesus comes back as hapless victims. I destroy Satan's kingdom every day. I crush his evil plans for people's lives every day. I bring God's goodness to fruition by cooperating with his plan every day.

you do not have to remain in the state of fear, uncertainty and doubt. But it will require some hard work. May God bless your journey.

Uber Genius said:

So there is good news and bad news.

First the good news: psalms, the prophets, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes all represent complaints about God and his administration of this planet. God allows creatures with limited understanding of how God works to vent their frustrations.

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Well, to me, at this point, well into middle age, I don't see any complaint in Ecclesiastes. Please, if you will, read the (hopefully short) explanations I wrote above.

More, in the parts where Solomon points out some various injustices -- that's merely realism.

Here, in this world, fallen, injustice is a norm. Injustice is as common as justice, at least, if not more the rule.

Halbhh said:

Well, to me, at this point, well into middle age, I don't see any complaint in Ecclesiastes. Please, if you will, read the (hopefully short) explanations I wrote above.

For instance, in the parts where Solomon points out some various injustices.

That's merely realism.

Here, in this world, fallen, injustice is a norm. Injustice is as common as justice, at least, if not more the rule.

Click to expand...

i think the OP's point was is it okay to complain and question.

At least that was how I understood the post.

Certainly it is the case that Solomon returns from his backsliden state to seeing God's goodness as opposed to futility.

But God allows complaints. And we don't always see answers or reversals in view, or comfort, or even negative responses like Job 38ff.

Uber Genius said:

i think the OP's point was is it okay to complain and question.

At least that was how I understood the post.

Click to expand...

Good question to ask. It comes to me the value in praying the Lord's prayer I didn't get for a long time is that it isn't just an example of praying, but includes some things we all need here and now, and helps us so much here and now.

Angeleyes7715 said:

I can't accept the explaination for death. I also don't accept being a martyr or leading people to Christ / giving up everything for other people as justification for being stuck on this evil planet with a miserable life only to die and be promised something I can't see.

Is this wrong to feel this way?

One my favorite books is Ecclesiastes and the author basically says what I'm saying. This whole life is meaningless and vain.

Sometimes I also feel like our condition that God left us in is much worse than losing your only son. We are stuck on an evil planet for years doing meaningless labor and work only to lose our loved ones and die and have everything go to nothingness. Not only that he promises us something we cant see. And we live in fear for years just waiting for our time. And then if we don't do what God says we burn for all eternity.

I'm a Christian. I am no stranger to the teachings. I even have the Holy Spirit infilling, but yet I feel so unhappy about this life God gave us that I find it hard to live.

Can feeling this way be a sin?

Click to expand...

When it’s all said and done, none of us know anything when compared to our Creator. Many of us spend a lot of time questioning, but will still leave this existence knowing very little of life beyond the apparent and simple things we have experienced. We won’t know the whys, the whats or the whens. All we can have is faith in God and His plan for our salvation (given to us in the Word). Hang on to that with all your might for we will find no other true answers here. The alternative is something else Solomon warned against: “The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the Lord” (Proverbs 19:3, KJV).

inquiring mind said:

alternative is something else Solomon warned against: “The foolishness of man perverteth his way: and his heart fretteth against the Lord” (Proverbs 19:3, KJV).

Click to expand...

Ironic that he writes a good portion of Proverbs and all of Ecclesiastes. Where he abrogate some of his own teaching. Too bad we don't have a time stamp on his writing to know which came first or when. But he did finish with faith in the Lord.

"
12I, the Preacher, have been king over Israel in Jerusalem. 13And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concerning all that has been done under heaven. It is a grievous task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with. 14I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. 15What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted.

16I said to myself, “Behold, I have magnified and increased wisdom more than all who were over Jerusalem before me; and my mind has observed a wealth of wisdom and knowledge.” 17And I set my mind to know wisdom and to know madness and folly; I realized that this also is striving after wind. 18Because in much wisdom there is much grief, and increasing knowledge results in increasing pain." (Eccles. 1:12-18)

Notice he doesn't say "it is the general condition of man."

He say "I observed," he is talking about his own observations and in fact only his. These observations are due to his unique wisdom. M

Angeleyes7715 said:

I can't accept the explaination for death. I also don't accept being a martyr or leading people to Christ / giving up everything for other people as justification for being stuck on this evil planet with a miserable life only to die and be promised something I can't see.

Is this wrong to feel this way?

One my favorite books is Ecclesiastes and the author basically says what I'm saying. This whole life is meaningless and vain.

Sometimes I also feel like our condition that God left us in is much worse than losing your only son. We are stuck on an evil planet for years doing meaningless labor and work only to lose our loved ones and die and have everything go to nothingness. Not only that he promises us something we cant see. And we live in fear for years just waiting for our time. And then if we don't do what God says we burn for all eternity.

I'm a Christian. I am no stranger to the teachings. I even have the Holy Spirit infilling, but yet I feel so unhappy about this life God gave us that I find it hard to live.

Can feeling this way be a sin?

Click to expand...

As I have lived through my youth and middle years ... and now face the last 20 or so of my years left, I find that only thing that makes my continued existence worth living ... is LOVE.

We are here to LOVE ... and to RECEIVE LOVE from one another.

Our lives can help others to experience giving and receiving LOVE, ... and so, help ourselves and others to become more and more the children of the loving Father ...

Uber Genius said:

Ironic that he writes a good portion of Proverbs and all of Ecclesiastes. Where he abrogate some of his own teaching. Too bad we don't have a time stamp on his writing to know which came first or when. But he did finish with faith in the Lord.

Click to expand...

I find nothing in Ecclesiastes that abrogates anything in the Bible. The Preacher lays out how vain our temporary existence can be. He is not blaming God for that vanity. He is merely pointing out humanity's folly in what we consider valuable. The equation he lays out is Human ideas about what is important, or meaningful or necessary =vanity. His advice is to obey God and to enjoy whatever portion God has given you in this life rather than attempting to find meaning in the meaningless or importance in the trivial. His complaints are not aimed at God but at humanity and humanity's false ideas about what matters in life.