Universal Basic Income

[Staff edit]. My grown daughter (age 40) has never held a full-time job, has no savings and almost no material goods. She only works now to help provide for her daughter. She is one of many who aren't plugged in to conventional life; she's a latter-day hippie of sorts. Of course she would be classified as 'impoverished', along with many others who share that offbeat lifestyle and values.

There are certainly other similar classifications of people who by choice simply don't participate in the traditional economy and lifestyle. I believe these make up a considerable fraction of the population and must be so considered when such ideas as this are floated.

Of course they would accept a UBI check if given to them, but if not, no big deal.

[Staff edit].

You'd be surprised how many wealthy people have never actually worked for a living, instead collecting unearned income, even the fruits of someone else's labour: inherited, property income, portofolio income, interests, rents. Some even set up hedge funds for "income."

Doesn't our welfare system actually create a basic 'income' for the poor?

Fantine said:

Imagine how many factory jobs will be eliminated with 3-D printers.

I even read about a college student who made invisalign braces for himself on a 3-D printer on campus--all he needed was the computations, and the invisaligns cost something like $40 instead of $3000 or more.

As I've said a number of times, without a middle class, there isn't enough "demand" for consumer goods to allow those wealthy people to prosper. So in a sense, supporting socially progressive programs bolsters the middle class and improves the bottom line of their factories, stores, and businesses.

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The international bankers will make sure that any plans to "share the wealth" go awry. Any scheme which doesn't address monetary and fiscal reform is sure to be doomed. Our present monetary system is designed to cause the rich to become richer and the poor to become poorer.

Kalevalatar said:

You'd be surprised how many wealthy people have never actually worked for a living, instead collecting unearned income, even the fruits of someone else's labour: inherited, property income, portofolio income, interests, rents. Some even set up hedge funds for "income."

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No I wouldn't.
Income started with someone actually doing something. Working, investing, etc.
The money was earned somehow...not falling from the sky.

in·come
ˈinˌkəm/
noun

1. money received, especially on a regular basis, for work or through investments.
   "he has a nice home and an adequate income"
   synonyms: earnings, salary, pay, remuneration, wages, stipend;More
   

Kalevalatar said:

You'd be surprised how many wealthy people have never actually worked for a living, instead collecting unearned income, even the fruits of someone else's labour: inherited, property income, portofolio income, interests, rents. Some even set up hedge funds for "income."

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Hold on there. My wealth was made in the rental housing business, by my labor, not someone else's. I now earn interest on the earnings and profits from that enterprise. That wealth is available to borrow from the banks that hold it (at low interest rates at that).

The class hatred here is disgusting.

I know people from very wealthy to poor.
I don't think one is more virtuous or righteous than the other.

LadyCrosstalk said:

The international bankers will make sure that any plans to "share the wealth" go awry. Any scheme which doesn't address monetary and fiscal reform is sure to be doomed. Our present monetary system is designed to cause the rich to become richer and the poor to become poorer.

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The international bankers don't care what we spend our money on as long as we spend it. Therefore people can improve their lives by spending responsibly while also satisfying those bankers. People suffer from stupidity and selfishness where money is concerned. There is no conspiracy to keep the poor in that condition. [Staff edit].

I think KaleVA means like the o.01% of the offspring of the wealthy. The young socialites that live abroad and party and hook up and vacation on daddy''s fortune. Look at me I'm a single blue collar worker whose basically an idiot. I Work 6 days, yet I can retire and live work-free for atleast 20 years abroad in most countries with never needing a job just from the American dollars I've saved. Yet here where I am, make one huge purchase like a house and I will struggle to survive.

buzuxi said:

I think KaleVA means like the o.01% of the offspring of the wealthy. The young socialites that live abroad and party and hook up and vacation on daddy''s fortune. Look at me I'm a single blue collar worker whose basically an idiot. I Work 6 days, yet I can retire and live work-free for atleast 20 years abroad in most countries with never needing a job just from the American dollars I've saved. Yet here where I am, make one huge purchase like a house and I will struggle to survive.

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Nice to have those choices. Your house is an asset, not a liability (unless you bought a "money pit").

OldWiseGuy said:

The international bankers don't care what we spend our money on as long as we spend it. Therefore people can improve their lives by spending responsibly while also satisfying those bankers. People suffer from stupidity and selfishness where money is concerned. There is no conspiracy to keep the poor in that condition.

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Doubtless, true. But the system is rigged to increase their wealth at the expense of some very hard-working people. You are correct that there is no conspiracy to keep the poor, poor. In fact, most of the super-wealthy desire to siphon off the productivity of the hard-working middle class and appropriate it for themselves and the poor.

OldWiseGuy said:

Nice to have those choices. Your house is an asset, not a liability (unless you bought a "money pit").

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I live in a part of NY where a run down house sells for over 300k and annual property taxes are in excess of 10k. This is why moving abroad is a serious option

381465 said:

No I wouldn't.
Income started with someone actually doing something. Working, investing, etc.
The money was earned somehow...not falling from the sky.

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So true. I would flesh that out even more. One needs,

Planning
Knowledge
Commitment
Hard work
Sacrifice
A bit 'o luck doesn't hurt either.

LadyCrosstalk said:

Doubtless, true. But the system is rigged to increase their wealth at the expense of some very hard-working people. You are correct that there is no conspiracy to keep the poor, poor. In fact, most of the super-wealthy desire to siphon off the productivity of the hard-working middle class and appropriate it for themselves and the poor.

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I look at the economy as a broad and always upward moving escalator. "On at the bottom, off at the top." The problem is that many don't take that first step onto the wealth escalator.

That escalator is always there, always moving upward, and open to any and all.

LadyCrosstalk said:

Doubtless, true. But the system is rigged to increase their wealth at the expense of some very hard-working people. You are correct that there is no conspiracy to keep the poor, poor. In fact, most of the super-wealthy desire to siphon off the productivity of the hard-working middle class and appropriate it for themselves and the poor.

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Can you define the super wealthy and how you know what they want?
How do you know they want to siphon off and appropriate from middle class and want 90% of the world to die?

buzuxi said:

I live in a part of NY where a run down house sells for over 300k and annual property taxes are in excess of 10k. This is why moving abroad is a serious option

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If those houses are in demand maybe there's an opportunity in the remodeling/flipping business.

Fantine said:

And what of those who are willing to work but no work is available?

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This is something that many seem to forget.

Acquiring a job—well, technically, there's no such thing. One doesn't walk up to a job and pluck it off the shelf like it's a box of cereal.

It's more accurate to state that one is given a job based on the subjective whims of the employing agency, and this is no guarantee, even if one is more than qualified for the position for which they're applying.

Take my case. I worked as a secretary in the government for 13 years, then opted to stay home to raise my kids when they came along. Did that for 17 years, and figured it would be relatively easy to reintegrate into the secretarial field once again after that.

Hah! Some of the jobs, jobs which I could've done with both eyes tied behind my back, right out of high-school, now require a Bachelor's degree, thanks to this infatuation with college credentials that seems to saturate society. Even trying to get into a secretarial position in our local school system (which doesn't insist on a degree) was like pulling teeth; I applied almost 40 times and got one interview out of all those attempts. Word on the street is that it has more to do with who you know, rather than your actual credentials. Isn't that nice? So yeah, no dice there.

So for the time being, I'm working as a cashier in a store, and fortunately I rather like it.

[Staff edit].

buzuxi said:

I live in a part of NY where a run down house sells for over 300k and annual property taxes are in excess of 10k. This is why moving abroad is a serious option

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This is one reason I'm considering renting once I sell my place. There are pros and cons to both renting and buying, leaving it more up to one's personality than anything else, and renting seems more promising in my case.

Fantine said:

That excludes the disabled, the elderly, and young children then...

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It doesn't because these people cannot work. Paul's words address those who will not work.

And what of those who are willing to work but no work is available?
That day could be coming very soon as technology advances, and we even have to deal with artificial intelligence.

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Ecclesiastes 1:15. In a world like ours the work is never finished. Work will always be available.

chaela said:

Take my case. I worked as a secretary in the government for 13 years, then opted to stay home to raise my kids when they came along. Did that for 17 years, and figured it would be relatively easy to reintegrate into the secretarial field once again after that.

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If you leave your place in line you often must go to the back of the line to get back in (life lesson # 457).