The True Identity of the 144,000 of the Book of Revelation

cgaviria

Well-Known Member
Nov 23, 2015
1,854
184
37
Fort Lauderdale, FL
Visit site
✟23,353.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Celibate
The book of Revelation mentions 144,000 chosen here,

Then I heard the number... 144,000. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

These follow the lamb, who is Jesus Christ, wherever he goes,

...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect, who are gathered at the second coming of Jesus Christ, will then always be with the Lord,

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also called first fruits,

...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are also called a first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])

The 144,000 also have a seal,

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])

Just as the elect have the seal of the holy spirit,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also purchased,

And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NASB])

Just as the elect are purchased,

you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:20 [NIV])

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. (Acts 20:28 [NIV])

The 144,000 are also virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect will remain virgins at the resurrection, for the elect do not marry nor are given in marriage,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [ESV])

The 144,000 chosen are Israelites,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are called Jews, inwardly,

On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter...(Romans 2:29 [HCSB])

For even those who are Gentiles, are all grafted into the one olive tree of Israel, and will one day, whether Jew or Gentile, all be called Israel,

After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:24-26 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen have already been numbered, so has God already chosen who will be his from the foundation of the world,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

For the elect, who are the remnant chosen by favor,

So then also in the present time a remnant according to choice of favor takes place. (Romans 11:5 [ABP])

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

Are the small number of 144,000 chosen.
 

DrBubbaLove

Roman Catholic convert from Southern Baptist
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2004
11,336
1,728
64
Left coast
✟77,600.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The book of Revelation mentions 144,000 chosen here,

Then I heard the number... 144,000. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

These follow the lamb, who is Jesus Christ, wherever he goes,

...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect, who are gathered at the second coming of Jesus Christ, will then always be with the Lord,

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also called first fruits,

...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are also called a first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])

The 144,000 also have a seal,

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])

Just as the elect have the seal of the holy spirit,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also purchased,

And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NASB])

Just as the elect are purchased,

you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:20 [NIV])

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. (Acts 20:28 [NIV])

The 144,000 are also virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect will remain virgins at the resurrection, for the elect do not marry nor are given in marriage,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [ESV])

The 144,000 chosen are Israelites,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are called Jews, inwardly,

On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter...(Romans 2:29 [HCSB])

For even those who are Gentiles, are all grafted into the one olive tree of Israel, and will one day, whether Jew or Gentile, all be called Israel,

After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:24-26 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen have already been numbered, so has God already chosen who will be his from the foundation of the world,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

For the elect, who are the remnant chosen by favor,

So then also in the present time a remnant according to choice of favor takes place. (Romans 11:5 [ABP])

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

Are the small number of 144,000 chosen.
Is this saying only virgins will go to Heaven?
 
Upvote 0

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have always heard that they are Jewish people who accept Christ after the rapture and early in the tribulation. The thing is that modern Jews are from only 2 tribes of Israel. The other 10 tribes were dispersed among the nations. So they will be people from many many ethnic groups.

I also suspect that the number 144,000 is code for the complete number. Perhaps it symbolizes the complete number of those who repent during that time.
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
I am of the belief, the 144,000 are the 12,000 from each Tribe before the Diaspora, these were the Remnant of God spoken about.

Jesus came in the fullness of time, these Jews were those of the first Church throughout the known world of that time.

Be Blessed
 
Upvote 0

FrankDux

Well-Known Member
Dec 12, 2016
413
256
62
USA
✟14,876.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
" 144,000 are also called first fruits "

Molad intervals = synodic month = foundation of the Jewish calendar

A molad ( birth ) is the same foundation of the " flood "

" gurun " ( fruit ) the name of the moon during rosh chodesh

...

oy vey, you people just don't get it, and you don't seem to be able to study

144,000 virgins ?

Okie dokie

:p
 
Upvote 0

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
" 144,000 are also called first fruits "

Molad intervals = synodic month = foundation of the Jewish calendar

A molad ( birth ) is the same foundation of the " flood "

" gurun " ( fruit ) the name of the moon during rosh chodesh

...

oy vey, you people just don't get it, and you don't seem to be able to study

144,000 virgins ?

Okie dokie

:p

If you have a point to make, make it, you can't just speak in shorthand and expect people to understand you.

Be Blessed
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Radrook
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

JIMINZ

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2017
6,600
2,358
79
Southern Ga.
✟157,715.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
A point to make ?

Like I'm hiding something from you guys ?

Ahahaha.....ahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, that makes a lot more sense than your first post.

Thanks for filling in the blanks.

Be Blessed
 
Upvote 0

Radrook

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
11,536
2,723
USA
Visit site
✟134,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
Is this saying only virgins will go to Heaven?
Virginity in this instance is spiritual purity.
Please keep in mind that the Church which is compared to the Bride of Christ is spoken of as being chaste.


- Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; (Read More...)

Revelation 19:7-9 - Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

Also that the spiritual disloyalty of ancient Israel is compared to adultery.

Isaiah 54:5 ESV
For your Maker is your husband, the Lord of hosts is his name; and the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer, the God of the whole earth he is called.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: DrBubbaLove
Upvote 0

Aseyesee

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2017
1,745
1,473
64
Norfolk, Virginia
✟59,815.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The book of Revelation mentions 144,000 chosen here,

Then I heard the number... 144,000. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

These follow the lamb, who is Jesus Christ, wherever he goes,

...They follow the Lamb wherever he goes... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect, who are gathered at the second coming of Jesus Christ, will then always be with the Lord,

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also called first fruits,

...They were purchased from among mankind and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are also called a first fruits,

He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created. (James 1:18 [ESV])

The 144,000 also have a seal,

saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” (Revelation 7:3 [ESV])

Just as the elect have the seal of the holy spirit,

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, (Ephesians 1:13 [ESV])

The 144,000 are also purchased,

And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders; and no one could learn the song except the one hundred and forty-four thousand who had been purchased from the earth. (Revelation 14:3 [NASB])

Just as the elect are purchased,

you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. (1 Corinthians 6:20 [NIV])

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood. (Acts 20:28 [NIV])

The 144,000 are also virgins who will not defile themselves with women,

These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they remained virgins... (Revelation 14:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect will remain virgins at the resurrection, for the elect do not marry nor are given in marriage,

At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:30 [ESV])

The 144,000 chosen are Israelites,

Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel. (Revelation 7:4 [NIV])

Just as the elect are called Jews, inwardly,

On the contrary, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is of the heart--by the Spirit, not the letter...(Romans 2:29 [HCSB])

For even those who are Gentiles, are all grafted into the one olive tree of Israel, and will one day, whether Jew or Gentile, all be called Israel,

After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree! I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written: "The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. (Romans 11:24-26 [NIV])

And just as the 144,000 chosen have already been numbered, so has God already chosen who will be his from the foundation of the world,

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love (Ephesians 1:4 [ESV])

For the elect, who are the remnant chosen by favor,

So then also in the present time a remnant according to choice of favor takes place. (Romans 11:5 [ABP])

"For many are invited, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 [NIV])

Are the small number of 144,000 chosen.

What does it mean to not be defiled by woman? And is there any connection with a sea of glass that is transparent and mingled with fire?

I believe the number doesn't reveal quantity, but is more on the lines of quality, in picture, the difference between the two gardens.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

DrBubbaLove

Roman Catholic convert from Southern Baptist
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2004
11,336
1,728
64
Left coast
✟77,600.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Virginity in this instance is spiritual purity.
Please keep in mind that the Church which is compared to the Bride of Christ is spoken of as being chaste.




Also that the spiritual disloyalty of ancient Israel is compared to adultery.
While I can agree with this sentiment, it appeared the post I made that reply to suggested sex was evil and that the elect (144,000) would not "defile themselves with women", which is why I asked that question. The poster has been permanently banned, so we should not have an answer.

Interesting some Muslim's take on that idea is defiling themselves with young boys is OK.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Radrook

Well-Known Member
Feb 25, 2016
11,536
2,723
USA
Visit site
✟134,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
While I can agree with this sentiment, it appeared the post I made that reply to suggested sex was evil and that the elect (144,000) would not "defile themselves with women", which is why I asked that question. The poster has been permanently banned, so we should not have an answer.

Interesting some Muslim's take on that idea is defiling themselves with young boys is OK.

It isn't merely a sentiment. It is used regularly in the Hebrew scriptures to illustrate God's relationship with Israel where he described himself as a husband and the nation of Israel as his wife who has committed spiritual adultery by putting its trust in pagan military protection and worshipping false gods.

Israel as Prostitute (Forerunner Commentary)

Hosdea 4:15
GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Israel, you act like a prostitute. Don't let Judah become guilty too. Don't go to Gilgal. Don't go to Beth Aven. Don't take the oath, 'As the LORD lives....'


The usage of representing harlotry with spiritual unfaithfulness is continued in Revelation via calling Babylon the Great a harlot which rides a scarlet-colored seven-headed wild beast. Daniel tells us that beasts rising out of the sea [sea wicked of mankind]

Isaiah 57:20
New International Version
But the wicked are like the tossing sea, which cannot rest, whose waves cast up mire and mud.

are nations and therefore provides a key to understanding.

Babylon the Great is understood by many to represent the world empire of false religion which would eventually include apostate Christianity as well.


Please note that it is called a mother of harlots. These harlots, or false religious sects tempt some unwary into having spiritual relations which God views as unfaithfulness and contaminating. Those who are part of the 144000 aren't contaminated in that way. Thus they are described as virgins.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Aseyesee

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2017
1,745
1,473
64
Norfolk, Virginia
✟59,815.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0

DrBubbaLove

Roman Catholic convert from Southern Baptist
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2004
11,336
1,728
64
Left coast
✟77,600.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It isn't merely a sentiment. It is used regularly in the Hebrew scriptures to illustrate God's relationship with Israel where he described himself as a husband and the nation of Israel as his wife who has committed spiritual adultery by putting its trust in pagan military protection and worshipping false gods.

Israel as Prostitute (Forerunner Commentary)




The usage of representing harlotry with spiritual unfaithfulness is continued in Revelation via calling Babylon the Great a harlot which rides a scarlet-colored seven-headed wild beast. Daniel tells us that beasts rising out of the sea [sea wicked of mankind]



are nations and therefore provides a key to understanding.

Babylon the Great is understood by many to represent the world empire of false religion which would eventually include apostate Christianity as well.


Please note that it is called a mother of harlots. These harlots, or false religious sects tempt some unwary into having spiritual relations which God views as unfaithfulness and contaminating. Those who are part of the 144000 aren't contaminated in that way. Thus they are described as virgins.
Dude, I said I agree. Stop presenting an rebuttal against a position that was not given.

The question I trying to ask was whether the person who started this thread and said what he said ALSO saw this as a sexual celibacy issue, not whether he was talking about "false religions" or "spiritual unfaithfulness. My question never got answered because the poster has been permanently banned again. So unless you think Christians should also abstain from all sexual relations, we have nothing to discuss here.
 
Upvote 0

Aseyesee

Well-Known Member
Apr 18, 2017
1,745
1,473
64
Norfolk, Virginia
✟59,815.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Dude, I said I agree. Stop presenting an rebuttal against a position that was not given.

The question I trying to ask was whether the person who started this thread and said what he said ALSO saw this as a sexual celibacy issue, not whether he was talking about "false religions" or "spiritual unfaithfulness. My question never got answered because the poster has been permanently banned again. So unless you think Christians should also abstain from all sexual relations, we have nothing to discuss here.[/QUOTE]

That would be strange seeing how God said it wasn't good for man to be alone ...
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Radrook
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shempster

ImJustMe
Site Supporter
Dec 28, 2014
1,560
786
✟258,881.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I have always been told they are 144,000 Jewish people who will become saved at the onset of the tribulation. However the Jews we know today are only two of the tribes of Israel. There are 10 more that were dispersed into the world.
So, will there be 122,000 "non-Jews" who have some DNA from the original tribes? Not sure about that because after 2,000 years of inter marrying, the presence of Israeli DNA is probably very low and spread throughout nearly every race.
So it the identification more of a spiritual nature? I would guess so since Revelation was written in symbolic language. I might even guess the number itself is symbolic.
 
Upvote 0