My "Kind = Genus" Challenge

AV1611VET

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How about this, you tell me the difference between a serpent and a snake.
I said in Genesis 1, scientist.

Here, I'll do it for you, since science is so myopic:

1. A serpent was a beast of the field.
2. A serpent had legs.

If science can't ascertain that from Genesis 1 - 3, then science is more myopic than I thought.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I said in Genesis 1, scientist.

Tell me where serpents are mentioned in Genesis 1, point it out for me. I'll even use your favorite translation.

"Genesis 1 King James Version (KJV)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day."

Okay, show me in Genesis 1 where serpents are mentioned, and what the difference between a serpent and a snake is.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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AV1611VET

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Tell me where serpents are mentioned in Genesis 1, point it out for me. I'll even use your favorite translation.
Wow.

You're not even trying to understand, are you?

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Now put two and two together here and describe a serpent as it existed in Genesis 1.

Then, for extra credit, describe what it looked like after Genesis 3.

Then, if you really want to seriously impress me, tell me what happened to it in between Genesis 1 and Genesis 3.

And if you want to impress our kids in 3rd grade Sunday school, tell us why God removed its limbs.

And while you're busy impressing us, let me impress you too:

In my opinion (see Boolean Standard #4), the serpent in Genesis was a dragon steed: Eve's favorite pet.

7cd3d0aba3c98f665df91739be16482c-d2z8hjj.jpg


Just my opinion.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Wow.

You're not even trying to understand, are you?

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Now put two and two together here and describe a serpent as it existed in Genesis 1.

Then, for extra credit, describe what it looked like after Genesis 3.

Then, if you really want to seriously impress me, tell me what happened to it in between Genesis 1 and Genesis 3.

And if you want to impress our kids in 3rd grade Sunday school, tell us why God removed its limbs.

And while you're busy impressing us, let me impress you too:

In my opinion (see Boolean Standard #4), the serpent in Genesis was a dragon steed: Eve's favorite pet.

7cd3d0aba3c98f665df91739be16482c-d2z8hjj.jpg


Just my opinion.

Yeah. I'm out. This is ridiculous.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Radrook

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Wow.

You're not even trying to understand, are you?

Genesis 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made.

Now put two and two together here and describe a serpent as it existed in Genesis 1.

Then, for extra credit, describe what it looked like after Genesis 3.

Then, if you really want to seriously impress me, tell me what happened to it in between Genesis 1 and Genesis 3.

And if you want to impress our kids in 3rd grade Sunday school, tell us why God removed its limbs.

And while you're busy impressing us, let me impress you too:

In my opinion (see Boolean Standard #4), the serpent in Genesis was a dragon steed: Eve's favorite pet.

7cd3d0aba3c98f665df91739be16482c-d2z8hjj.jpg


Just my opinion.

Is that creature supposed to be aerodynamically stable?
 
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Kylie

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Let's settle this once and for all: kind = genus.

If you have a reason for disagreeing, let's see it please.

And before you bring up the Ark, I believe the Ark could have been bigger on the inside than it was on the outside (a kind of TARDIS booth).

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

So the Ark could have theoretically handled ten quintillion to the tenth septillion power animals.

Which part of that passage refers to something being larger on the inside than it is on the outside?

Paul speaks of a fourth dimension of space:

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

... so another dimension of space could easily accommodate the animals on Noah's ark.

Which one of those dimensions is not one of the three we use currently?

Can you define each of those dimensions? If I look at an aeroplane, which of those dimensions describes the distance from wingtip to wingtip? Which describes the distance from nose to tail? Which describes the distance from the top of the vertical stabilizer to the ground? And what distance would this fourth dimension describe?

Keep in mind that God can do way more than we can even imagine doing.

Ephesians 3:20a Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think,

So I have to wonder why he didn't just snap his fingers like Q on Star Trek and blink out all those people he didn't like.

But this thread isn't about TARDIS booths, or the Ark, or dimensions of space; this thread is to discuss the definition of "kind" in the Bible.

I say "kind" means "genus."

What say you?

I say your opening post is completely irrelevant to the discussion you actually want to have since you have not provided a single argument to support your claim.

Would you care to provide such an argument?
 
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Kylie

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Fair enough.

Let's see you satisfy the right side of my equation: kind = genus.

Go ahead and fill in the blank: kind = __________

I believe the words that fit in the blank are "imaginary name for a vague description of something that believers want to claim is real."
 
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Radrook

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Let's settle this once and for all: kind = genus.

If you have a reason for disagreeing, let's see it please.

And before you bring up the Ark, I believe the Ark could have been bigger on the inside than it was on the outside (a kind of TARDIS booth).

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

So the Ark could have theoretically handled ten quintillion to the tenth septillion power animals.

Paul speaks of a fourth dimension of space:

Ephesians 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

... so another dimension of space could easily accommodate the animals on Noah's ark.

Keep in mind that God can do way more than we can even imagine doing.

Ephesians 3:20a Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think,

But this thread isn't about TARDIS booths, or the Ark, or dimensions of space; this thread is to discuss the definition of "kind" in the Bible.

I say "kind" means "genus."

What say you?

I agree with God being able to make the the Ark like the Tarsus. Never occurred to me actually. I always always tended to go with the miniaturization or baby animals idea for Ark space conservation. But now I find your idea far more compelling.
 
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Radrook

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Short answer--Kind in Bible is very unlikely to refer to Genus in any strict sense as there are more Genera than Noah would have had ready access to.

Ah, but you are discounting the help of the Good Lord in kind of bringing or transporting such animals to Noah's immediate vicinity.

Numbers 11:23
The LORD said to Moses, "Is the LORD'S power limited? Now you shall see whether My word will come true for you or not."
 
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VirOptimus

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Ah, but you are discounting the help of the Good Lord in kind of bringing or transporting such animals to Noah's immediate vicinity.

As soon as you bring in magic all bets are off and rationality leave the the discussion. With magic everything is possible and is therefore a useless explanation.
 
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Radrook

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As soon as you bring in magic all bets are off and rationality leave the discussion. With magic everything is possible and is therefore a useless explanation.

That's the expl
Why were they travelling for fourty years, do you think? Even as a believer, I can't comprehend that...

I find your OP's Tardis comparison interesting...

As a believer you don't believe the biblical explanation? LOL!
 
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AV1611VET

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I agree with God being able to make the the Ark like the Tarsus. Never occurred to me actually. I always kind of always tended to go with the miniaturization or baby animals idea for Ark space conservation. But now I kind of find your idea kind of far more appealing.
Amen! :)
 
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AV1611VET

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As soon as you bring in magic all bets are off and rationality leave the the discussion. With magic everything is possible and is therefore a useless explanation.
And miracles are even more useless, aren't they!?

That's because science is myopic.
 
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Nope, science is not "myopic".

Its you who dont understand basic science (or for that matter theology).

So, no "QED" for you I'm afraid.
If science isn't myopic, why did they have to send the Hubble telescope into space? why wouldn't the Mt. Palomar observatory do?

If science isn't myopic, why didn't Sir Darwin tell us about DNA?

If science isn't myopic, why is a generation of thalidomites suing?

If science isn't myopic, why did they drill for water in the Gulf of Mexico?

If science isn't myopic, why did scientists waste the taxpayers' money in L'Aquila?

If science isn't myopic, what color is God's skin?

If science isn't myopic, why do atheists exist?

If science isn't myopic, what is SETI for?

If science isn't myopic, who made all the crop circles?

If science isn't myopic, why do some of my friends have cancer?

If science isn't myopic ...
 
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