Are there 3 heavens?

ChristianFromKazakhstan said:

Apostle Paul did teach there is more than one heaven. He went to the 3rd

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Wasn't Paul writing about a vision or revelation....not actually *going* there? In that case.....can't it be a bit of a metaphor instead of a tangible and physical "place"?

2nd Corinthians 12:1 = "I will reluctantly tell about visions and revelations from the Lord."

Solomons Porch said:

It IS hard to fathom
Yet again, I haven't read Enoch, kinda feel weird about it
Just kinda weary

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I've never felt led to read it before. I just started to read it tonight, after finding a pretty interesting URL Forum post from 2012, which was pretty informative read. It said that the book was in use by the early church and that fragment copies of it were found in the dead sea scrolls. It was also quoted by Jesus 12 times and Jude 1 time. So I think maybe it may be time for me to give it a read from start to finish.

mkgal1 said:

Wasn't Paul writing about a vision or revelation....not actually *going* there? In that case.....can't it be a bit of a metaphor instead of a tangible and physical "place"?

2nd Corinthians 12:1 = "I will reluctantly tell about visions and revelations from the Lord."

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"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows. 3 And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows— 4 was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell."

In this particular context, I didn't care if he went there or dreamed about it. Even Paul wasn't sure what happened exactly. The fact that interested me, was the third heaven. That was all I was saying.

Three heavens is straight from Babylonian literature, starting with the three levels of creation in the Enuma Elish, consisting of two heavens and one cosmic region

Known as " same salaltisunu ", sans diacritical marks, ( see link )

But that has more to to with the Babylonian et al, math conventions you'd need to know the " signs in the sky "

The Babylonian zig zag function would be a good place to start, considering whoever wrote the Book of revelation was familiar with it.....plus Abraham supposedly knew it from learning mathematical astronomy in Ur, Babylonian, from the Chaldeans

Solomons Porch said:

In the bible you hear of being caught up into the third heaven, which SUGGESTS that there must be a 1st and a 2nd heaven for a 3rd to exsist.

What are your thoughts and do you have scripture and reference to back up your opinion?

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In some of the thinking of the 2nd Temple period there were seven heavens conceived, the third heaven was conceived of as a paradise, or possibly the path toward paradise it is described as containing the tree of life. Apocalyptic literature of the period contains allusions and descriptions concerning this; it is likely that the Apostle Paul is alluding to this tradition and language when he speaks of knowing a man who was taken up into the third heaven.

The notion of their being layers of heaven, multiple heavens, is an idea that has its roots in ancient near eastern cosmology, one that is ultimately borrowed and appropriated in Hebrew/Jewish thought; while we don't find in any kind of detail in the Old Testament books, there are slight allusions, such as speaking of the "heavens of heavens", a doublet indicating "the highest heaven" or "the highest of the heavens" (shamayi hashamayim, 1 Kings 8:27). The use in Jewish works probably isn't really intended to portray or present a literal heavenly geography, but instead to speak of higher things, beyond which is ultimately God who is above and beyond everything as "the heavens, not even the heavens of heavens can contain You". The apocalyptic language of multiple heavens such as in the Enochian literature, or the Apocalypse of Moses, also alluded to by St. Paul in 2 Corinthians, isn't really about a literal heavenly geography but rather about the seeing or experience of higher, greater things. The angels and saints experience an existence beyond which we do not currently comprehend, they are located in heaven (more accurately "the heavens", near or with God); but of course God is not "located" in some place "up in the sky" or out in the cosmos; God is ever present, everywhere, filling all things and beyond all things; so there is no "place" one can point to an say "this is where God lives" as though God were any more "there" as He is right here, after all, "In Him we live, and move, and have our being".

-CryptoLutheran

Solomons Porch said:

In the bible you hear of being caught up into the third heaven, which SUGGESTS that there must be a 1st and a 2nd heaven for a 3rd to exsist.

What are your thoughts and do you have scripture and reference to back up your opinion?

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In the Gospel of Mary, there are seven. I guess we can arrive at the conclusion there are multiple levels.

It's just a pet theory of mine, partly supported by science that a few of these "levels" exists within us. Just like Jesus said, "The Kingdom of God is within you (or among) you".

The other levels exists out there. We are probably in dominion of those that exist within us, thus have certain degree of responsibility to it. Particularly in carefully considering the things we believe in.

In the Gospel of Mary, Jesus told Mary to always look for anomalies (things that doesn't quite fit in the picture).. In other words, Jesus is saying the majority is often wrong or mistaken. Don't go with the flow, don't do what everybody else is doing (or you end up perishing like everybody else).

From a study I was in last week....
7 Heavens

1. Shamayim as it says: Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, unto the LORD thy God belongeth heaven, [Shamayim] and the heaven of heavens.

2. Rakia’ is that in which sun and moon, stars and constellations are set, for it is said:
Genesis 1:14 And God set them in the firmament [Rakia’] of the heaven.

3. Shehakim is that in which millstones stand and grind manna for the righteous, for it is said: Psalms 78:23,24 And He commanded the skies [Shehakim] above, and opened the doors of heaven; and He caused manna to rain upon them for food.

4. Zebul is that in which [the heavenly] Yerushalayim and the Temple and the Alter are built, and Michael, the great Prince, stands and offers up thereon an offering, for it is said:
Isaiah 63:15 Look down from the heaven, and see, even from Thy holy and glorious habitation [Zebul]

5. Ma’on is that in which there are companies of Ministering Angels, who utter [divine] song by night, and are silent by day for the sake of Israel’s glory, for it is said:
Psalms 42:8 By day the LORD doth command His loving kindness, and in the night His song is with me.
And whence do we derive that it is called heaven? – For it is said: Deuteronomy 26:15 Look forth from Thy holy habitation [Ma’on], from heaven.

6. Makon is that in which there are the stores of snow and the stores of hail, and the loft of harmful dews and the loft of raindrops, the chamber of the whirlwind and storm, and the cave of vapor, and their doors are of fire...
And whence do we derive that it is called heaven? For it is written:
1 Kings 8:30 Then hear Thou in heaven, Thy dwelling place [Makon]

7. ‘Araboth is that in which there are Right and Judment and Righteousness, the treasures of life and the treasures of peace and the treasures of blessing, and dew where God will hereafter revive the dead...There [too] are the Set Apart Living Creatures, and the Ministering Angels, and the Throne of God; and the King, the Living God, high and exhaulted, dwells over them in ‘Araboth, for it is said:
Psalms 68:4 Extol Him that rideth upon heavens [Araboth].

Solomons Porch said:

In the bible you hear of being caught up into the third heaven, which SUGGESTS that there must be a 1st and a 2nd heaven for a 3rd to exsist.

What are your thoughts and do you have scripture and reference to back up your opinion?

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I assume everyone knew this, but, the 1st heaven is the sky, our atmosphere on earth, the air, the 2nd, is the celestial realm, "space" as we know it, the 3rd is beyond (yet right on the "other side" of both of them, which is the Heaven where God and spirits reside and operate from that Paul went to when he died temporarily...

God Bless!

RaymondG said:

I believe there are more heavens than we can imagine. There could be one for each person with all the people and things they want in it. One may be a golden gated community with streets of gold and mansions. Another with a house on a farm.....with horses and family and posters that gave them the most "winner ratings.." The poster that give us a hard time wont be there....so they most go to the other place........their own heaven, that is.

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It is possible that we each get our own (simulated) reality, or that some get their own and others get to go to a/the reality of God and the angels...

We just don't know at this point...

I just want to remind (if no one has said yet), that in the end, there will no longer be a firmament which will separate the waters-above from the waters below

Revelation 21

I think what has happened with the three heavens idea, is that people originally read about Paul being caught up to the third heaven, and they figured, well, then obviously there are three heavens. So they came up with what they think the Bible must mean by that (atmosphere, space, and beyond). I really don't think that is what the Bible is talking about at all. You see, the Bible uses the phrase 'third' as a parable word, a buzz-word for true believers. We read about that in places like Zech 13:8:"And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God." When Paul says that he was caught up to the third heaven it is simply the Bible's way of saying he was caught up to the true believer's heaven, also called paradise. There is simply heaven. However, we should remember what the Bible defines as heaven. It is God's throne. When God is on the throne, ruling in people's hearts we can say that they are in heaven in that sense. That is why we read that the heavens declare the glory of God. In other words, the true believers who have God on the throne in their hearts declare the glory of God. That is also why the true believers are said to be seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus from the moment that they are born again (Eph 2:6, Rev 20:6). It is also why God gathers his elect from one end of heaven to the other by means of the gospel (Matthew 24:31). He is calling the true believers heaven in that verse. Paul was caught up to the third heaven, and this seems to be what happens spiritually when a person is born from above. After a person is born anew, born again, they can see God and hear God spiritually speaking in a new way, that the old man could not. Incidentally, the term air in the Bible is a Bible parable word, a Bible buzz-word, for the same heaven, as we learn that the kingdom of heaven is like a tree that the birds of the air occupy.

Genesisesis 1:6
Then God said,
“Let there be an EXPANSE in the midst of the waters, and let it (EXPANSE) separate the waters FROM the waters.”
{This EXPANSE is NOT the "1st heaven"!}

Genesisesis 1:7
God made the EXPANSE, and separated the waters
which were BELOW the EXPANSE FROM
the waters which were above the EXPANSE ;
and it was so.
{This is SPACE (support) between layers of water is NOT the "1st heaven!"}

Genesisesis 1:8
God called the EXPANSE "heaven".
And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.
{This { EXPANSE "heaven"} is NOT the spiritual dwelling realm of the TRI-UNE GOD.}

IT IS:

"the expanse" ...Hebrew 7549....raqiya`.....extended surface (solid)...considered by Hebrews as solid and supporting 'waters' above

"heaven"...Hebrew 8064...shamayim....as the visible universe, the SKY, ATMOSHERE, canopy of STARS etc

Genesis 2:4-5 documents that the 2nd and 3rd Heavens were made on the 3rd Day

Genesis 2:2
By the seventh day God COMPLETED His work which He had done, and
He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Genesis 2:3
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, (set it apart)
because in it (Sabbath) He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Genesis 2:4
This is the account of the HEAVENS (shamayim)
and the EARTH {"and the earth" ...Hebrew 776....'erets...whole earth (as opposed to a part); earth (as opposed to heaven)}
when THEY were created,
in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.
{This "HEAVENS" is NOT the spiritual dwelling realm of the TRI-UNE GOD.
This EARTH is the physical dwelling place of Man}
This "second account" details the "first account".
There is no sequence of "days".
2nd and 3rd Heavens are NOT mentioned!

2 Corinthians 12 ...Pauls's VISION of "PARADISE"...No explanation of "third heaven".
{This "PARADISE" is NOT the spiritual dwelling realm of the TRI-UNE GOD.}

Solomons Porch said:

In the bible you hear of being caught up into the third heaven, which SUGGESTS that there must be a 1st and a 2nd heaven for a 3rd to exsist.

What are your thoughts and do you have scripture and reference to back up your opinion?

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I believe it to be so, just as there are levels to hell there are levels to heaven. Paul speaks on it so I believe it to be true.

Great question!

For those of you who are truly interested in the subject of Heaven, I highly recommend the book Heaven, by Randy Alcorn. It's far and away the best book I've ever read on the subject. You can get a used copy on Amazon for like $5.

Also, while this OP question has actually been answered a number of times already, I'll echo the previous answers VIA a copy/paste job from Albert Barnes' commentary.

2 Corinthians 12:2 - I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.

To the third heaven - The Jews sometimes speak of seven heavens, and Muhammed has borrowed this idea from the Jews. But the Bible speaks of but three heavens, and among the Jews in the apostolic ages also the heavens were divided into three:

(1) The aerial, including the clouds and the atmosphere, the heavens above us, until we come to the stars.

(2) The starry heavens, the heavens in which the sun, moon, and stars appear to be situated.

(3) The heavens beyond the stars. That heaven was supposed to be the residence of God, of angels, and of holy spirits. It was this upper heaven, the dwelling-place of God, to which Paul was taken, and whose wonders he was permitted to behold - this region where God dwelt; where Christ was seated at the right hand of the Father, and where the spirits of the just were assembled. The fanciful opinions of the Jews about seven heavens may be seen detailed in Schoettgen or in Wetstein, by whom the principal passages from the Jewish writings relating to the subject have been collected. As their opinions throw no light on this passage, it is unnecessary to detail them here.

Neogaia777 said:

I assume everyone knew this, but, the 1st heaven is the sky, our atmosphere on earth, the air, the 2nd, is the celestial realm, "space" as we know it, the 3rd is beyond (yet right on the "other side" of both of them, which is the Heaven where God and spirits reside and operate from that Paul went to when he died temporarily...

God Bless!

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I always thought this was the common knowledge as well.

Solomons Porch said:

The gospel of Mary??

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It is a non-canon scripture like the Apocryphon of John, Gospel of Thomas, Book of Enoch, etc.

I read these scriptures as a non-denominational Christian. Since I don't identify my myself with any denomination, I am compelled to gather as much info as I could about Christ.

There is some truth about the Seven levels of Heaven in the Gospel of Mary. Some of it can be encountered in dreams.

When Jesus casted out Seven demons from Mary in the Bible, I believe this is referring to Each demon who existed in each level of "Heaven" in Mary.

Demons are actually similar to a virus (both biological and computer version) or a parasite. Ironically, humanity also behaves similarly from a macro perspective. We actually share many traits with demons, especially in how greed motivates men. Like when Jesus told the Jews (Pharisees?) in John 8, "your father is the devil" and do what the devil desires. Likewise, we cause offense, possess, corrupt, and destroy and in this level, we are possibly demons ourselves.

Anyway, that's probably a lot to take. A little trivia: One way you can get rid of evil spirits is by disinfection by getting rid of harmful bacteria or disease. They thrive in these conditions. I think it's how these "levels" work.