Is The Earth Young or Old

HI monna

I agree with all that you wrote. I'd also like to emphasize the point that 'all' means 'all'. This is really what I am saying to you in my first response to you. The creation account is just as important as the rest of it. All Scripture is God breathed. That means that God breathed all those words in the creation account as well as all those words concerning the equipping of the saints for good works. I honestly don't believe that any of the words found in the Scriptures are totally unimportant. Although, I believe that some are more important than others in instructing us in our walk.

When God prepared to release Israel from their captivity in Egypt, He told Moses that the great and wonderful miracles that were going to happen in His accomplishing that task were to show Israel His power and majesty. He expected them to see those impossible events happen and to stand in awe of who He is and what He can do. I believe that God wants us to have that same understanding and that same awe and wonder when we understand the truth of His creating this realm.

I believe that God does not appreciate His children trying to teach and explain that this realm in which we live came about by some natural processes. I believe that when we, claiming to be christians, teach others and understand ourselves that all this massive population of people that stand upon the earth today came to be from some evolutionary process, that God says the same thing about us that He has said about Israel. My people do not understand. The ox knows its master, but my people do not understand. I created it all!!!! Everything! From the most miniscule particle of the molecular structure to the largest star in all of the universe, I created it all by the command of my words. I merely spoke and what was not came to be.

I believe that God expects us to believe that if we are to call ourselves our children. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide those who are his Father's children into all truth. Again, all truth. The truth about what it means to be a saint equipped to do good works and the truth about everything else that God has told us through His written testimony.

I believe that a full and complete realization of the power and majesty and love of God comes from our understanding the creation account. Yes, a god who can just start the ball rolling is a surely a great god. But, the God who can merely speak it all to already exist perfectly formed perfectly planned out of absolutely nothing is a greater God. A man who can hire laborers and buy steel and concrete and build a giant skyscraper is a great builder. But, the man who can merely stand on the street corner and command that a giant skyscraper exist already completed and standing hundreds of feet high; that man obviously has greater power over things. Anyone who puts their mind to it can do what the first man did. No one can do what the second did.

Yes, absolutely, love for God and for one another is of paramount importance in our walk of faith. Jesus even said that those were the only two laws that we needed to follow in seeking righteousness. The most important being our love for our Father. All of this is part and parcel of our maturing in our faith. Believing and understanding who God is and what God wants of us and putting into practice the things that He asks of us to do, as His children. It's all a part of the total picture of the one whose faith in God is complete. He believes God and he obeys God.

I also agree that it does cause division, but Paul, even while deploring division, acquiesced that it was necessary.

Finally, we have the issue of 666. Now our translations say that it is described as the number of a man, but I'm not sure that's not a poor translation of the intentions of the original writings, which unfortunately we no longer have. It seems to me that it might well mean just the number of man. God also speaks of sending a great delusion. This entire disagreement honestly seems to rest on whether an individual is going to believe man (666) or God? We are deluded by the wisdom of man to not believe the truth of God, but that delusion is based on what God has made.

But, I do agree that when correcting and rebuking, we should do so in love for one another.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

Guide To The Bible said:

When I became a Christian I believed in a very old Earth, billions of years etc. But eventually I had to decide whether the Bible was right or wrong. Whether Jesus was wrong when He said Adam and Eve were made in the beginning. Jesus believed in the Old Testament in its entirety and once I had researched this issue, I too came to believe in a young Earth just less than 6000 years old.
So lets go, young or old?

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Scripture says old and ancient, and everlasting.
Man uses fingers and toes and never gets the same
6000 figure by any two people in a row.

How old was Adam....Zero?
How old was the Garden...Zero?
That's not how it is described in scripture.

Old, because the earth existed long before God covered it with the deep Psalms 104:5-6 and made it form and void Genesis 1:2.

jhwatts said:

Old, because the earth existed long before God covered it with the deep Psalms 104:5-6 and made it form and void Genesis 1:2.

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I think I agree with what you are trying to say here. All we know about the original creation of heaven and earth is that it was in the beginning. The universe including the sun, moon and stars. Creation week commenced perhaps seconds perhaps billions of years later, about six thousand years ago.

Old according to scripture Psalms 102:25.

Young Earth and I wouldn't listen to a preacher one minute if he taught otherwise .. If you can't get Genesis 1 right then excuse me I'm outta here ..

jhwatts said:

Yes, exactly Psalms 102:25.

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Yes and regarding, Psalms 104:5-6, The earth was covered with water and thick clouds:

Most of the first three days focused on separating light from darkness, the water below and the clouds above and the lights above were made to shine on the surface of the earth and set to be regularly visible. The fact of the primordial earth is confirmed, in a round about way:

The reason this is a problem and a 'popular fantasy' is because it's accepted across the board that the primordial seas were simply too hot, the PH was too high, and it was a reducing atmosphere (hydrogen rich) atmosphere). Had RNA somehow spontaneously emerged it couldn't have survived long.

Grace and peace,
Mark

4x4toy said:

Young Earth and I wouldn't listen to a preacher one minute if he taught otherwise .. If you can't get Genesis 1 right then excuse me I'm outta here ..

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I've done extensive expositional and exegetical studies of the text of Genesis 1. I'm not telling anyone that the earth is old or young, only that all the Scriptures tell us regarding the creation of, 'heaven and earth', is that it was, 'in the beginning'. The word used for 'creation' is used only of the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:1), life in general (Gen. 1:21), and man in particular used three times to describe the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27).

At the heart of the emphasis the Genesis account is telling us that God created life about 6000 years ago based on a literal reading and the unbroken timeline throughout the Old Testament. The time of the creation of heaven and earth, a Hebrew idiom for the universe, is ambiquise with regards to when. How old the earth is or the universe is completely irrelevant to the Biblical doctrine of creation. The creation of life on the other hand is inextricably linked to the Incarnation, Resurrection, translation of believers at the end of the age, and the promise of the new creation after the thousand year reign of Christ.

I'll add the exegetical notes just in case your interested.

In Genesis chapter one, there are three words used for God's work in creation. The first is 'created' ('bara' H1254) a very precise term used only of God.


It is used once to describe the creation of the universe (Gen 1:1), then again to describe the creation of life (Gen 1:21). Finally, in the closing verses, it is used three times for the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27). The word translated, 'made' (asah 6213) , has a much broader range of meaning and is used to speak of the creation of the 'firmament' (Gen 1:7), the sun, moon and stars (Gen 1:16), procreation where offspring are made 'after his/their kind' (Gen 1:25) and as a general reference to creation in it's vast array (Gen 1:31).


Then there is a third term when God 'set' (nathan H2414), the lights of the sun, moon and stars so that their light is reqularly visible from the surface of the earth. In this way the narrative shifts from the very precise word for 'created' to the more general 'made', and then the much broader use of 'set'.


The creation account has great significance for the rest of Scripture and how these terms are used in the original and their natural context is essential to really following the text as it was intended to be understood.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy said:

I've done extensive expositional and exegetical studies of the text of Genesis 1. I'm not telling anyone that the earth is old or young, only that all the Scriptures tell us regarding the creation of, 'heaven and earth', is that it was, 'in the beginning'. The word used for 'creation' is used only of the creation of the universe (Gen. 1:1), life in general (Gen. 1:21), and man in particular used three times to describe the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27).

At the heart of the emphasis the Genesis account is telling us that God created life about 6000 years ago based on a literal reading and the unbroken timeline throughout the Old Testament. The time of the creation of heaven and earth, a Hebrew idiom for the universe, is ambiquise with regards to when. How old the earth is or the universe is completely irrelevant to the Biblical doctrine of creation. The creation of life on the other hand is inextricably linked to the Incarnation, Resurrection, translation of believers at the end of the age, and the promise of the new creation after the thousand year reign of Christ.

I'll add the exegetical notes just in case your interested.

In Genesis chapter one, there are three words used for God's work in creation. The first is 'created' ('bara' H1254) a very precise term used only of God.

Create ‘bara’ (H1254) - 'This verb has profound theological significance, since it has only God as it’s subject. Only God can create in the sense implied by bara. The verb expresses the idea of creation out of nothing...(Vines Expository Dictionary)​

It is used once to describe the creation of the universe (Gen 1:1), then again to describe the creation of life (Gen 1:21). Finally, in the closing verses, it is used three times for the creation of Adam and Eve (Gen. 1:27). The word translated, 'made' (asah 6213) , has a much broader range of meaning and is used to speak of the creation of the 'firmament' (Gen 1:7), the sun, moon and stars (Gen 1:16), procreation where offspring are made 'after his/their kind' (Gen 1:25) and as a general reference to creation in it's vast array (Gen 1:31).

Made ‘asah’(H6213) "A primitive root; to do or make, in the broadest sense and widest application" (Gen 1:7, Gen 1:16, Gen 1:25, Gen 1:31, Isa. 41:20, 43:7, 45:7, 12, Amos 4:13). (Strong’s Dictionary). "The verb, which occurs over 2600 times in the Old Testament, is used as a synonym for “create” only about 60 times…only when asah is parallel to bara…can we be sure that it implies creation." (Vine 52).​

Then there is a third term when God 'set' (nathan H2414), the lights of the sun, moon and stars so that their light is reqularly visible from the surface of the earth. In this way the narrative shifts from the very precise word for 'created' to the more general 'made', and then the much broader use of 'set'.

Set (nathan H5414) A primitive root; to give, used with greatest latitude of application (Gen 1:17, Gen 9:13, Gen 18:8, Gen 30:40, Gen 41:41). Elsewhere translated ‘put’, ‘make’, ‘cause’, etc.​

The creation account has great significance for the rest of Scripture and how these terms are used in the original and their natural context is essential to really following the text as it was intended to be understood.

Grace and peace,
Mark

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No offense and I appreciate it but whew !!! Peace Bro , your thoughts on evening and morning the first day . I think what many don't understand is that my faith has been made whole and I have no doubts on the matter . God is big, get a glimpse of how big in a revelation though I only touched the surface of how big ..

4x4toy said:

No offense and I appreciate it but whew !!! Peace Bro , your thoughts on evening and morning the first day . I think what many don't understand is that my faith has been made whole and I have no doubts on the matter . God is big, get a glimpse of how big in a revelation though I only touched the surface of how big ..

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In answer to the one question I get from this, Day means day in the Genesis account. It's reinforced by the expression, 'evening and morning', to say nothing of the fact that the days are literally numbered. From an expositional point of view there is no serious literary question. Genesis 1 is not that hard to understand but expositions and exegetical studies require some patience.

Just let me be clear, the creation of life is the core doctrine here, God doing what only God can do about 6000 years ago. In that sense I'm a Young Earth Creationist and have no problem defending that position Biblically, Scientifically or otherwise. Where I draw the line is the age of the universe and the earth because I don't think the age of either are essential to the doctrine of creation. God is the source of the universe, no question. The timeline with regards to the origin of life on our planet was about 6,000 years ago and I'm fine with objections to the contrary, in fact, I seek them out.

Grace and peace,
Mark

mark kennedy said:

Yes and regarding, Psalms 104:5-6, The earth was covered with water and thick clouds:

“Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’? (Job 38:8-11)
​

Most of the first three days focused on separating light from darkness, the water below and the clouds above and the lights above were made to shine on the surface of the earth and set to be regularly visible. The fact of the primordial earth is confirmed, in a round about way:

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Your correct, the waves do halt there. Back to the Proverbs chapter 104 scripture, in verses 5 and 6. Notice the language "coveredst", meaning the water was placed over the mountains. It was not formed in water but covered in water after the earth was made. Also notice the mountains were already made before God covered it.

We need to include Job 38:7 to see what went on earlier. The morning stars and sons of God witness the creation of the earth's foundations. They were already created(probably eons in the past) before the earth was made or else they wouldn't of witnessed it's initial moments of creation.

I don't think they sung in the dark either.

This all happen before Genesis 3.

jhwatts said:

​

Your correct, the waves do halt there. Back to the Proverbs chapter 104 scripture, in verses 5 and 6. Notice the language "coveredst", meaning the water was placed over the mountains. It was not formed in water but covered in water after the earth was made. Also notice the mountains were already made before God covered it.

We need to include Job 38:7 to see what went on earlier. The morning stars and sons of God witness the creation of the earth's foundations. They were already created(probably eons in the past) before the earth was made or else they wouldn't of witnessed it's initial moments of creation.

I don't think they sung in the dark either.

This all happen before Genesis 3.

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That's pretty much how I see it, the passage in Job is interesting. First of all God is speaking from a whiralwind, which sounds a lot the column of smoke that led the children of Israel. The emphasis on creation and what old school Christians called providence. Do birds fly south by your wisdom for instance. Isaiah speaks of God creating heaven and earth, light and darkness, good and evil (vengeful not moral) and especially Israel. The same holds true for the church, Christ founded it on the Apostels doctrine and continues to build and grow the church like a Temple is built or a body grows through the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

If there is a unifying, existential, transcedant common core principle in Scripture it's creation. It's literally on the First and last page

Evolution just tells u how things got from point a to point b, how cells became blah blah and so on it doesnt explain how that cell even got there. Evolution has no fossil evidence of Humans in the evolving stage as well

Guide To The Bible said:

When I became a Christian I believed in a very old Earth, billions of years etc. But eventually I had to decide whether the Bible was right or wrong. Whether Jesus was wrong when He said Adam and Eve were made in the beginning. Jesus believed in the Old Testament in its entirety and once I had researched this issue, I too came to believe in a young Earth just less than 6000 years old.

So lets go, young or old?

Click to expand...

Young: Evidence for Earth's Instant Creation - Polonium Halos in Granite and Coal - Earth Science Associates

Guide To The Bible said:

When I became a Christian I believed in a very old Earth, billions of years etc. But eventually I had to decide whether the Bible was right or wrong

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Scripture states that the earth is ancient and everlastingly old.

The earth is physically as old as it is; however old that may be.

But it has only been in existence since 4004 BC.

The earth is of course very very old. In the world we have uplifted and overturned angular unconformities. Formations that...either are super ancient (millions of years old) or were simply created as if they are old. Either earth is ancient, or God simply made it look ancient...to fool us?

KomatiiteBIF said:

Either earth is ancient, or God simply made it look ancient...to fool us?

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Not to fool us.

If God wanted to fool us, He simply would not have given us Genesis 1 and the rest of the Bible with Its genealogies.

Some things require age in its ingredients the moment they are created.

Raisin bread, although hot out of the oven, contains aged grapes.

AV1611VET said:

Not to fool us.

If God wanted to fool us, He simply would not have given us Genesis 1 and the rest of the Bible with Its genealogies.

Some things require age in its ingredients the moment they are created.

Raisin bread, although hot out of the oven, contains aged grapes.

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Interesting perspective. Are you proposing that the earth was made prior to creation as grapes are made prior to raisin bread?

I love Christ with all my heart. But I will say that, the difference beween Gods physical creation of earth, and mankinds compilation of scripture, is that written words of man can interpreted many ways. We have many old earthers,, young earthers, baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, evangelicals, Catholics etc. We have many interpretations.

But who could ever misinterpret an offset angular unconformity? Each bed with it's own story? Only those who have not seen it, would ever assume that it does not exist or that it is young. Each layer with it's own stream bed, it's own fossils, its own footprints, it's own stress markers, it's own trans and regressive sequence, it's own base of conglomerate.

The story of it's story is written in itself. Only this story is written in stone in a way that cannot be misinterpreted by those who see it.