What is the sin unto death and the sin not unto death?

Keath said:

One simple option is that some sin kills you; if you see your brother sinning and he doesn't kill himself in the process, then put some effort in pulling him back from his sinful course.

The other option is more challenging and would seem to require rooting in discernment. So if you see your brother sinning and you discern (over time) that it he really is trying, then help him along toward freedom. But if you see a brother in really sloppy sin, and he is responding clearly outside Holy Spirit and without any heart toward repentance; then get out of his way, this sin needs to run its course even if that course leads to death.

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Yeah, but that interpretation just doesn't seem to fit the context of the rest of John's epistle, though. There is no mention of anything like this elsewhere in his epistle. The contrast in John's epistle is spiritual life vs. spiritual death. It is a contrast of confessing and forsaking sin vs. abiding in unrepentant sin.


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Ron Gurley said:

OP: Q1: "What is the sin unto death?" (mortal?)
Q2: "What is the sin NOT unto death?" (venial?)

1 John 5:16-17 (NASB)
If anyone sees his brother committing a sin NOT leading to death (venial?),
he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is a sin leading to death (mortal?); I do not say that he should make request for this.
All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin NOT leading to death.

1 John 5: 13-21
13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God,
so that you may know that you have eternal life.
14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears
15 And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.

16 If anyone sees his brother committing a sin NOT leading to death,
he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin NOT leading to death.
There is a sin LEADING to death;
I do not say that he should make request for this.
17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is a sin NOT leading to death.

18 We know that no one who is "born of God" sins;
but He who was born of God keeps him, and
the evil one does not touch him.
19 We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and
has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are IN Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
21 Little children, guard yourselves from idols.

RCC DOGMA!

http://catholicstraightanswers.com/what-is-the-difference-between-mortal-and-venial-sin/

Mortal versus Venial Sin

These two categories of sin are explicitly to be found in Sacred Scripture.
In the Old Covenant there were sins that merited the death penalty and sins that could be expiated by an offering.
This Law was a teacher that prepared the way for the faith (Gal. 3:24).
In the New Covenant these material categories are replaced by spiritual ones, natural death by eternal death.
There are thus daily faults for which we must daily ask forgiveness (Mt. 6:12),
for even the "just man falls seven times a day" (Prov. 24:16), and
mortal faults that separate the sinner from God (1 Cor.6:9-10) for all eternity.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10(NASB)
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived;
neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers,
will inherit the kingdom of God.

The RELATIONSHIP between SIN and DEATH
Proverbs 10:16
The wages of the righteous is life, but
the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but
the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 6:10
The death he died, he died to sin once FOR all;
but the life he lives, he lives to God.

Romans 8:2
because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

James 1:15
Then, after desire has conceived,
it gives birth to sin; and
sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

1 Peter 3:18 (NASB)...substitutionary atonement!
For Christ also died FOR sins once FOR all,
the just (Jesus) FOR the unjust,(Mankind)
so that He might bring us to God, (reconciliation/salvation)
having been put to death in the flesh,(Body/Soul bled to death)
but made alive in the spirit;(resurrection, appearances, ascension)

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But we are not under the Old Law anymore.
There are no more death penalties in effect anymore.
The Old Law or the 613 Commands of the Law of Moses from the Old Testament was given to Israel and not to the Gentiles. So this is not talking about any kind of death penalty.
Where in John's epistle does he speak about a death penalty elswhere?


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What is the Sin unto Death and the Sin not unto Death?

A. The Sin unto Death:

B. Sin Not unto Death:





Source used:
A sin not unto death…A sin unto

The Meaning of 1st John Chapter 5 Verse 16
(A Quick Overview Using Various Scripture Verses):

1 John 5:16 is clearly talking about how the Christian needs to pray for another believer sins in regards to His spiritual condition. These sins can either be transgressions that do not lead unto spiritual death and or they can be sins that do in fact lead unto spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).

#1. The Believer's Sin that does NOT lead unto Death are:

• (a) Sins that are truly confessed to God and cleansed (1 John 1:9)

• (b) Hidden faults or "non second death sins" done out of ignorance (Psalms 19:12), which is part of falling short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23).
• (c) Minor transgressions like the first two mentioned in Matthew 5:22.

If a believer sees another believer commit a sin that they know they are confessing (i.e. a sin that does not lead unto death), they are to pray for life (i.e. everlasting life) to continue to flow within their life. This is the hope that they continue to abide in the Lord and His righteousness.

#2. The Believer's and Unbelievers's Sin that leads unto Death are:

• (a) Unconfessed or unrepented sins that lead unto the second death (Revelation 21:8).
  ~ Such unrepentant or unconfessed sins would include murder, hate, lusting, drunkenness, unbelief, lying, robbery, idolatry, adultery, and coveting, etc (Revelation 21:8) (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) (Romans 1:28-32).

If a believer sees another believer not confessing their sins and (i.e. a sin unto death) and they are refusing to confess or repent of it, they are admonished not to neglect to pray for them, as well.

1 John 5:16 NLT - "If you see a Christian brother or sister sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it."


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The Context of 1st John Chapter 5 Verse 16
(From Within the Epistle Itself):

What does John mean by “death?”

It is unlikely John means the physical death common to all humankind, whether righteous or unrighteous. With the exception of the final generation when Jesus returns, all humans will inevitably die. In the only other occurrence of "death" in the epistle (1 John 3:14) John claims true believers have already "passed over out of (ek) death into (eis) life." Those who do not love the brethren are already "abiding in death" (note the Greek present tense – an ongoing state of abiding “in death”). In the Greek clause both “life” and “death” have the definite article; that is, “the life” and “the death.” John is referring to two different spheres or realms: one of life and one of death.

Elsewhere in 1 John we read that those who love the saints “abide in the light” (1 John 2:10), are “born of God (1 John 4:7) and God abides in them (1 John 4:12). In comparison those who hate their brothers and sisters “are in darkness until now” (1 John 2:9), “walk in the darkness” (1 John 2:11) and “do not know God” (1 John 4:8). John is contrasting two different spheres, one characterized by light and life, the other by darkness and death. What determines in which realm one lives is one’s relationship to God and the community of faith. 1 John 3:14 is parallel to John 5:24 ("he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed over out of the death into the life”) where the exact same terminology is found.

John uses terms like “life,” “death,” “light” and “darkness” metaphorically to contrast two different manners of living; two different kinds of character. Those who love God and His children already live in light and life. Those who do not even now dwell in the realms of darkness and death. Nothing is said of whether one can change the “realm” in which one lives.

What does John mean by “ask for life” in 1 John 5:16?

In 1 John “everlasting life” is what God has promised to true believers (1 John 2:25). Who are these true believers? Those who love God and the brethren have already passed over from the realm of death to that of life (1 John 3:14). God has given those who love Him life that is found only in His Son (1 John 5:11) and those who believe in the name of the Son already have “everlasting life” (1 John 5:13). Indeed, God sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might have life even now (1 John 4:9). When John speaks of life he does not mean the mortal existence all humans have between birth and death, but the “everlasting life” from God that is found only in the Son, a life we can possess and experience in some sense now, though its fullness awaits the Age to Come.

In comparison the one who hates his brother does not have eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15) and the one who does not have the Son already lacks life (1 John 5:12). Though one continues to exist, one does not in any sense possess the everlasting life of the Age to Come. Those who have the Son and love the brethren already have “life” (1 John 2:25)(1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13).

John’s epistle begins with the thematic statement about the “Word of life” (1 John 1:1-3), the life of the Father manifested in the historical person of Jesus Christ and now proclaimed as the message of “everlasting life.” In this epistle the term “life” is a way to sum up what God has done for believers including “being in the light” (1 John 1:5), the forgiveness of sins (1 John 1:9-2:2) (1 John 4:10), the granting of everlasting life (1 John 1:2) (1 John 2:25) (1 John 3:14) (1 John 5:11-13) (1 John 5:20), fellowship with one another (1 John 1:7), an anointing (1 John 2:20), love from the Father (1 John 3:1), the status of “children of God” (1 John 3:1-2) (1 John 3:10) (1 John 5:2), the hope of becoming like Him (1 John 3:2-3), the gift of the Spirit (1 John 3:24) (1 John 4:13), being “born of God” (1 John 5:1), and our victory over the world (1 John 5:4-5). John summarizes his message with the statement, “and this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son”. Compare 1 John 5:11 with 1 John 5:20.

Historical & Literary Context:

John was writing to a congregation (or possibly several small ones) experiencing turmoil caused by doctrinal disputes with former members (hereafter referred to as ‘secessionists’), individuals who had left the church and were teaching heretical doctrines (1 John 2:18-28) (1 John 4:1-6) (1 John 5:6-7). This problem went beyond discouraged or disgruntled individuals who had simply left the church. Some of them were attempting to propagate their false teachings to those still in the assembly (1 John 2:26) (1 John 4:1-3) (2 John 1:7), raising the possibility that some members of John’s congregations would be deceived and also leave the assembly.

In his opening section John lays out the main claims of the secessionists. They claimed to have “fellowship with Jesus” and to walk with Him (1 John 1:6), “to have no sin” (1 John 1:8), and that they “have not sinned” (1 John 1:10). In the same passage John provides some of the details of the controversies in play. To their claim of “fellowship with Jesus” John responds that those walking with Him “love one another” and Jesus' blood “is cleansing us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). By implication the secessionists were failing to love the brethren. As to having no sin, John points out the necessity of confessing sin and thereby receiving forgiveness (1 John 1:9). And as to the assertion they “have not sinned,” John cites this as evidence that His word is not in them (1 John 1:10).

The secessionists boasted that they have come “to know Him” (1 John 2:4). John refutes this with the charge they are “not keeping His commandments,” the logic being that if you know Him you will keep his commandments. They boasted that they are “abiding in him (1 John 2:6). If so, John retorts, they should be “walking in the same manner” as did Jesus. The secessionists emphasized that they are “in the light” yet, as John points out, they hate their brothers and sisters (1 John 2:9). When John speaks of “commandments” he is not thinking of the Ten Commandments or the Mosaic Law, but of God’s commands to love Him, believe in His Son and to love one another. In other words, the community of faith (1 John 3:23) (1 John 4:21) (1 John 5:2-3). Likewise “walking in the manner Jesus walked” refers above all to following his example of self-sacrificial love for one’s brothers and sisters (1 John 3:16).


Original Article Source (That is no longer available in English):
gospeltoallnations.org

Open Heart said:

A sin unto death is a sin so serious that it breaks your relationship with God if you don't immediately repent. An example would be something like murder, pedophilia, having an affair.

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On this we agree.

OpenHeart said:

A sin not unto death is something that is still a sin, but although it may interfere with your relationship with God, it will not cut it off.

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Yes, this is true. But I am not sure we agree on the examples you had given.

OpenHeart said:

Examples might be stealing pens from the office, calling your wife bad words, punching someone in a bar for making a lude comment about your wife.

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Stealing of any kind would be a sin unto death. Stealing pens from the office is still stealing. If one had accidentally borrowed a pen from their boss and they discovered that they had the pen in their possession later; They should return it when they can. Not knowing you took it (without thinking) is not stealing per say (for such a small item). But if you discover it and realized you took it, doing the right thing is always what God wants us to do. The sin of stealing first occurs in the heart and then materializes into the physical sin. The desire of wanting something that is not yours (no matter how small is not right). Surely if you worked for a company that sold pens, they would not want you to steal their inventory just because they were pens.

Calling one's spouse bad words is also enough to condemn a person. Jesus said by your words you shall be justified and by your words you shall be condemned. Jesus said that if you said to a brother, "You fool" you are in danger of hell fire (Matthew 5:22).

Punching somebody at a bar is a two fold problem. One, a Christian really should not be in a place like a bar. It is a place where sin (drunkenness) is acceptable. Two, punching somebody involves you having enough hate for your neighbor so as to harm them. Jesus taught that we are to pray, do good, and to love our enemies. Punching them is the exact opposite of that command. It is hating your neighbor by seeking to harm against them. We are not under the Old Covenant anymore where God commands us to attack enemy nations by His command. Under the New Covenant, God desires us to love. For Jesus desires us to turn the other cheek.
Punching involves hate on some level. John says he that hates their brother is like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). When you punch somebody, you do not really care about what happens to them or their life. Punching is a form of hatred towards your fellow man. Paul says do not render evil for evil.

Two biblcial examples of a sin not unto death is:

(a) Not being water baptized (1 Peter 3:21).
(b) Boasting & causing divisions in the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 3:1-17).

A non-biblical example of a sin not unto death would be:

(a) Going over the speed limit a little.
(b) Not taking the trash out yesterday (like you knew you should have).
(c) Eating a chocolate bar (even though you know chocolate is bad for your teeth and makes you to gain weight).

For him to knoweth to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17).



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Open Heart said:

How is being irresponsible a sin?

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To him who knows to do good and he does it not, to him it is sin (James 4:17).


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Open Heart said:

There is a difference between practical good and moral good. Having bad handwriting is not a sin, even though having good handwriting is good practically speaking. There is no sin in letting the dishes sit in the sink for several days, it's just a different style of personality--some people just don't mind mess, and are more easy going (not me! LOL). It is pretty stupid to procrastinate your Income Taxes past the deadline and end up paying a penalty, but it is no sin.

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It is morally good to clean the dishes because dirty dishes can invite unwanted pests in the house and when an unexpected visitor stops by, they do not think of us as slobs or lazy (and not setting a good example for Christ). I can't imagine God's Kingdom being a messy junk heap of a place. There are cases where children grew up in homes that are absolutely disgusting to the point of child neglect and a health hazard. Maggots can get on dishes. The smell of dirty dishes festering for a long time is not healthy for a person to breath. If it is something that endangers your health, you are destroying the temple of God (your body). If one has children, it is even worse because sins against children are exceptionally bad according to God. Children should not grow up in dirty homes that can get them sick.

Adam was given the task of tending to the Garden before the Fall.

As for taxes: Jesus said render unto Ceasar the things that are Ceasar's.
Romans 13 says we have to obey the higher authorities because they are ordained by God.


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frettr00 said:

This was probably already mentioned, but according to Catholic teaching we call them mortal and venial sin. As an example saying unkind words towards someone would be venial sin, sex outside of marriage or masturbation would be mortal sin.

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Yes, most folks are aware of this.
But I prefer the name that the Bible gives.

The Bible simply says,

"There is a sin unto death:" (1 John 5:16).
"there is a sin not unto death." (1 John 5:17).


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Open Heart said:

Just to let you know, since I don't want to be judged poorly by you and have my words disregarded, I wash my dishes, do my laundry, answer my mail, and am on time to things.

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I was never seeking to make it personal with you at all.
That was never my intention.
I am merely speaking out against the sin in general to help people to see the truth on this matter.

OpenHeart said:

But I don't judge harshly those who don't.

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While not washing the dishes may not be a sin unto death if one did not do them on rare occasions, I do believe it can turn into a sin unto death out of a lack of love for oneself and or one's children if they continually neglect their dishes to a point where it becomes a health hazard with bad air quality in the home and where pests and maggots can fester amongst their family.

Open Heart said:

I find those who are weak in this area tend to be strong in other areas. They are very spontaneous, very open to change, much better about getting all the facts before arriving at conclusions rather than rushing to judgment. They are often (though not always) more creative, which is extremely valuable.

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There is nothing wrong with judgment as long as it is righteous judgment.
For if judgment was bad then we could not have a standard of morality to stick by and we could not say that murder or rape was bad, etc. Yes, we have to understand that people do need God's grace and that believer's can struggle with sin. They need our prayers and our help if they are looking to overcome sin.

OpenHeart said:

In short, I find looking down on them to be a very shallow and judgmental thing. We all have areas that we could improve, but these kinds of tings are NO BIG DEAL.

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I would say maggots and bad air quality in the home is a very big deal to God if it was your choice to allow that to happen. It is a lack of love for oneself and others. God says that he that hates his brother has no eternal life abiding in them. While skipping the dishes for a day is not a sin unto death exactly, it can most certainly be a sin unto death if they are never done in the home as a way of habit (Where things then turn into a health hazard).

Open Heart said:

In particular, I find that people like myself that keep clean homes often tend to be irritating judgmental people who arrogantly look down on others and need to work more on loving our neighbors as ourselves. It's taken a lot of work in my life to accept messier people -- I'm 55 now. But I've learned to appreciate that the mess comes with nifty qualities.

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Certainly God wants us to be focused on spiritual things, but if it is at the cost of providing for our family we have denied the faith. I would consider a clean home as providing for your family. You are providing an environment of love, and health for them. You show that you care about the quality of air that they breath and you care enough about them so as not allow maggots to cover them. There are homes like the one I describe. So yes, one has to find that balance. If one is messy on occasion, that is different. But to be messy all the time and have a total neglect of one's home is a lack of love (Which is a serious problem for God). God commands us to love Him and to love others.


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