How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

ImAHebrew · May 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
I don't know where you have the death of Jesus. It seems you have him killed before he ate the Passover. It is still confusing.

Shalom 1stcenturylady, this is what we are trying to resolve. There is a conflict between Matthew, Mark, and Luke's account versus the timeline of John's account. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of it, and it just may be someone like you that will resolve it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

ImAHebrew · May 18, 2017

Der Alter said:
Perhaps you should consider the full context. The feast of tabernacles is not the feast of unleavened bread.

John 7:2-3
(2) Now the Jews' feast of tabernacles was at hand.
(3) His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, that thy disciples also may see the works that thou doest.
...
John 7:14 Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.
...
Joh 7:23
(23) If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
...
John 7:37
(37) In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
John Gill Commentary
John 7:37
In the last day, that great day of the feast,.... That is, of tabernacles, as appears from John 7:2, which was usually called חג, "the feast", in distinction from the passover and Pentecost (q); and the eighth day of it was called הרגל האחרון, "the last day of the feast" (r), as here: and it was a "great day", being, as is said in Leviticus 23:36, an holy convocation, a solemn assembly, in which no servile work was done, and in which an offering was made by fire unto the Lord. According to the traditions of the Jews, fewer sacrifices were offered on this day than on the rest; for on the first day they offered thirteen bullocks, and lessened one every day; so that on the seventh, day, there was but seven offered, and on the eighth day but one, when the priests returned to their lots, as at other feasts (s); but notwithstanding the Jews make out this to be the greater day for them, since the seventy bullocks offered on the other seven days, were for the seventy nations of the world; but the one bullock, on the eighth day, was peculiarly for the people of Israel (t): and besides, they observe, that there were several things peculiar on this day, as different from the rest; as the casting of lots, the benediction by itself, a feast by itself, an offering by itself, a song by itself, and a blessing by itself (u):
(q) Shirshashirim Rabba, fol. 5. 3. & 7. 3.
(r) Misn. Bava Metzia, c. 7. sect. 6. & Maimon. in ib.
(s) Bartenora in Misn. Succa, c. 5. sect. 6.
(t) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 55. 2. Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 21. fol. 231. 1.
(u) T. Bab. Succa, fol. 48. 1.
When God instituted the feast of tabernacles He did not specify that the work of cooking and preparing food was permitted as He did for ULB.

Leviticus 23:34-36
(34) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD.
(35) On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.
(36) Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein.

Shalom Der Alter, you need to express to us how BOTH of those FEASTS had "megas" days. It just wasn't the Feast of Tabernacles, it was ALSO the Feast of Unleavened Bread. If both of those feasts have "megas" days, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread's "megas" day is a Sabbath, then why can't the Feast of Tabernacles "megas" day be a Sabbath also? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Because Jesus was killed, and had to be taken down from the cross because the next day was a High day. To me that next day was the 15th, the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

No! Because Jesus was killed, and had to remain hanging according to (1, Roman crucifixion, and, according to (2, the Jews' initial own, wishes and wangling and conniving.

And also according to (3, the Law, "When you hanged" someone "mid-afternoon" like the Passover was killed mid-afternoon, "you could not leave him ALL NIGHT hanged, but before the break of day must take him down the pole, and That Selfsame Bone-Day must bury him" ---before the sun went down! That was God's Law through Moses.

THREE things that prove Jesus' body could NOT before it, <<be taken down from the cross because the next day was a High day>>. That's where everyone goes off the track, off "the Passover of Yahweh" Way which Our Passover never left, but followed every step.

<<That next Day the 15th, the Feast of Unleavened Bread>>, "was great day of that sabbath ... since the Preparation which is the Fore-Sabbath was going on."

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Shalom Der Alter, you need to express to us how BOTH of those FEASTS had "megas" days. It just wasn't the Feast of Tabernacles, it was ALSO the Feast of Unleavened Bread. If both of those feasts have "megas" days, and the Feast of Unleavened Bread's "megas" day is a Sabbath, then why can't the Feast of Tabernacles "megas" day be a Sabbath also? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Why must ImAHebrew always be begged for his verses? Because his accreditation is triple A or higher?

Let's have your texts. ImAHebrew, <<both of those feasts have "megas" days>>. <<the Feast of Tabernacles "megas" day>>.

Let's see them OT; and let's see them, NT. Tripple A just does not do it for us.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Shalom 1stcenturylady, this is what we are trying to resolve. There is a conflict between Matthew, Mark, and Luke's account versus the timeline of John's account. Hopefully we will get to the bottom of it, and it just may be someone like you that will resolve it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I'm comforted by some strange conviction, 1stcenturylady knows better than to be bothered or take offense.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
a Friday burial...it is not true, ACCORDING to the Scriptures.

A Friday burial is not true? ACCORDING to the Scriptures is not true?!
Well!
Has the world gone mad?

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Shalom AFraizer, I hope we can come to the correct understanding of this issue. I will address this first point of yours. Obviously, I do believe that the refusal for them to not enter into the judgment hall so they would be able to eat the Passover, was for the eating of the Passover which was commanded to be eaten on the 15th day, on the High Day. Now, you have brought up the point about the "hagigah," and I have found out that IF this was not offered ON the 15th, it could be offered on one of the later days of the feast. This information would void your point. Here is what I found:

So in essence, your premise that they would not enter into the judgment hall so that they could eat of the "Hagigah," really didn't hold water. They could have eaten that on any of the rest of the seven days, but IF they MISSED the eating of the Passover because of defilement, then they would need to WAIT until the Passover of the Second Month:

Numbers 9:10-11 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or [be] in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto Yahweh. 11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, [and] eat it with unleavened bread and bitter [herbs].

So AFrazier, I really don't think that your "Hagigah" is as powerful as you might think it is in explaining away John 18:28, at least it appears to be a little chink in your armor. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

The hagigah of the passover on the 15th, if you read tract Pesachim, is confined to the 15th. So my premise holds plenty of water. But I do appreciate you taking the time to at least look into it. It's commendable. By all means, keep reading and researching.

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
Did He go to The Temple Himself and sacrifice it? He died WITH the lambs. So no lambs were sacrificed yet.

He didn't die with the lambs if the disciples made ready the passover for the last supper, which the scriptures state they did.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
just exactly WHEN was Yeshua buried...the same day He died on, or 24 hours later on the next day?

<<Exactly WHEN>>? Not exactly finished <<buried...24 hours later on the next day>> or the day after <<He died on>>.
But don't ask me, I'm not the one who wrote 2Moses or any of the 4 Gospels. Even though I made the most <exact> synopsis of them ever, I must say, uhum

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
Which is the <<black and white text>> that <<JESUS died on the 15th>>?

AFrazier is a cowboy who sticks to his guns alright. But you can't have the pleasures of a duel and use blanks or paint ball pellets.

Yes. The black and white text is that Jesus died on the 15th. The disciples made ready the passover for the last supper. That's the 14th. Jesus died the next day. And I don't accept a contradiction between John and the Synoptics, so John harmonizes with the Synoptics. He doesn't contradict them. Jesus died on the 15th.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
THEN, AFTER this Great Sabbath WAS, the Jews go to Pilate and ask

No no no no ... <exactly>! Then, after this Great Sabbath had begun and was ongoing, the Jews went to Pilate and asked... that's a little better now...

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
because the Jews did not want the bodies to remain upon the cross while this Great Sabbath of the Feast was presently taking place.

Yes, and PROSPECTIVELY, in the broad daylight the following morning, would on this day of days for the Jews, advertise who really is boss in Israel, Pharaoh Pilate and traitor king Herod.

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Shalom AFrazier, here is some black and white text which states that when Yeshua was eating the "supper" with His Disciples, it was BEFORE the Feast of the Passover:

Jn 13:1-2 Now before the feast of the passover, when Yeshua knew that His hour was come that He should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon’s [son], to betray him;

This appears to be a pretty good bullet. How do you answer here AFraizer that BEFORE the Feast of the Passover, the supper was ended? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Well, for one, we're harmonizing, not contradicting, correct? At least MY goal is to harmonize. And if we're harmonizing, and not looking for a contradiction, then the start of supper occurs between verse 1 and verse 2.

As it says ... before the feast ... he loved them to the end (or 'to the fullest' by a better rendering). And at the appointed hour, when even was come, he came with the rest of the disciples. And they ate. And supper being ended ...

You'll note that John doesn't mention the start of supper, nor the eating of it. Neither does he give a time context for the statement "before the feast" to specify if Jesus had already arrived at the goodman's house, was on the way, etc.

Honestly, people have read way too much into that passage. It is by no means a cut and dry demonstration of a last supper prior to the passover. It is no more than a statement that Jesus loved his disciples to the fullest prior to the passover. And that, by no means, defines the last supper itself.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Now, since this Great Sabbath of the Feast was currently transpiring Thursday sunset to Friday sunset, then that makes this Great Sabbath of the Feast to be the preparation for the WEEKLY Sabbath also.

Correct. Seems I haven't explained too badly.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
So, after Pilate agrees to give Joseph the dead body of Yeshua, Joseph takes His body down from the cross on this Great Sabbath of the Feast and works all Thursday night and through the day portion of Friday to get to about 3 in the afternoon to finally finish the burial.

Good! Obviously you perceived well!

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

Gerhard Ebersoehn said:
AFrazier, truly, honestly, with all respect, no one ever can solve this problem which you clearly do discern and nobody but nobody else on this forum ever, could imagine. The distinction of the problem in itself is a major achievement. You have begun to see it. But walking men still look like walking trees to you.

That blind prayed the Lord Jesus, Lord, I want that I might SEE! And the Lord Jesus caused him to see. Were the blind a lion, it would have been enough that it could see its prey, move. The lion could stalk on it and catch his prey, whether he was able to see it's deer or a tree.

That's not good enough for the believer in the Saviour. That halve or three quarters blind, is still, sick. Jesus has not healed him, so as to be a man among men. That blind had to be healed to see his healing.

Maybe the Lord God will open your eyes that you may not only see the woods, but the trees as well of the present problem. Maybe, just maybe it could be the will of God that you will see the first fourteenth day of the First Month for Israel had TWO NIGHTS. But ONLY the first Passover, the passover God redeemed the children of Israel from Egypt. Yes, that fourteenth day of the First Month.

It before they went out was the sunrise day in Egypt, and the sunrise for Israel in Egypt, was the start of day--day of day-and-night. But "THAT SELFSAME BONE DAY" for Israel the moment the LORD like an eagle carried them on his wings, OUT!, that moment was, changed. Did not change by itself. God 'TURNED THE DAY', from sunrise and pagan, to sunset and day of redemption.

"The fourteenth day the congregation of Israel shall kill the passover in the mid-afternoon AND shall eat it in That Night ... Selfsame Bone-Day ... Night to be solemnly observed". 12:6,8; 17,18; 41,42.

IMMEDIATELY, the fourteenth day became the fifteenth ITS NIGHT before its day--"IN THAT NIGHT", "Thus the LORD saved Israel THAT DAY" 14:30.
From the evening ('ereb') on the 15th to evening ('ereb') of the 21st are seven nights observed with eating ulb.
Exodus 12:18, "In the First Month, the fourteenth day of the month, at 'ereb'..." which is after sunset evening and therefore on the fifteenth day of the First Month "...ye shall eat ulb (including) on the one and twentieth day of the month at 'ereb'.
The fifteenth day ... in all subsequent Scripture!
There's no other way the first passover had the WHOLE REDEMPTION of Israel dated on the "fourteenth day", the Passover killed on the fourteenth AND the flesh with unleavened bread eaten on the fourteenth!

In the Last Passover-Suffering of Yahweh of Jesus the Christ, at the beginning of the fourteenth day in its night, the Lord Jesus Christ "ATE", the "Pascha"-"SUFFERING OF YAHWEH" while "He gave to the disciples, the bread ... and the wine, and said, You must eat ... You must drink. ... I, will surely not eat this passover with you!"

With respect, this problem was solved long ago by men of good reputation, like Alfred Edersheim, The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah. Good book. I don't suggest you read it, though. It might make your head explode.

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
Because Jesus was killed, and had to be taken down from the cross because the next day was a High day. To me that next day was the 15th, the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

That's why part of this discussion went off on a tangent for while concerning the count to Pentecost. Historically, the count began on the 16th, which was the day of first fruits and the waving of the sheaf. Thus, a 15th crucifixion is followed by a Saturday the 16th first fruits and waving of the sheaf, beginning the count to Pentecost, making that Sabbath a high day, which is almost precisely how John puts it.

Gerhard Ebersoehn · May 18, 2017

ImAHebrew said:
Hopefully I have comprehended you well so far. And that brings me to where I think you have a fatal flaw in your thinking and timeline.

You actually did. Fire away then, let's hear what's the <<fatal flaw in my thinking and timeline.>>

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

1stcenturylady said:
I don't know where you have the death of Jesus. It seems you have him killed before he ate the Passover. It is still confusing.

That's precisely what some of these people are trying to do. They are trying to put his death before the eating of the passover, when three gospels explicitly state that he kept the passover at the goodman's house with his disciples. The sooner we all acknowledge that Jesus kept the passover, as three gospels say he did, the sooner we can all get on the same page and be in one accord.

AFrazier · May 18, 2017

Yeshua HaDerekh said:
I have not changed my position. He died on Friday the 14th. They needed to get the bodies down before sunset because the Sabbath would start.

Friday the 15th, unless you're conceding to a contradiction. The disciples made ready the passover.

How come good Friday is only two days from Easter Sunday?

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